Winch Decisions ??

[half k cruiser]

I am surprised there has been very little discussion around the hydraulic winches. The mile marker HI12000 is on my to do list, 100% duty cycle and more reliable than any 12 winch. The 12V winches also put a beating on your batteries...no alternater can keep up with the current draw of a 12V winch.

The MM hydraulics are nice with the only two drawbacks being slow line speed ( not so bad ) and they don't work if the vehicle is stalled out or on its lid for those who are worried about such things. Other than that there is a reason you see them on every flatbed wrecker !

 

[SmokingRocks]

Once again someone links the winch shootout from 5 years ago

So what has changed? the duty cycles before damage that a more 'expensive' winch can handle are still greatly superior to those that a cheap can, the load and rate of pull that a quality winch can handle is still above what a cheap winch can. And ALL, and I will stand behind this, all quality winches will work out of the box. Sure, go ahead work with your budget winch all day long and claim it is as good as an m12 or whatever but you all you are doing is blowing sunshine and unicorns up your ass.

You have spent time, money and brainpower (showing ingenuity and overall cool workmanship) into figuring out how to make a s***ty winch almost as good as a quality winch and thats good for you, but a lot of us don't care or are uninterested in go down that road, so stop holding it against us.

I am not trying to discount your efforts to make a budget winch viable, that is great tech and appreciated - realize that there are plenty of other people using quality winches out there that are perfectly happy with what we use.

 

[SmokingRocks]

I am surprised there has been very little discussion around the hydraulic winches. The mile marker HI12000 is on my to do list, 100% duty cycle and more reliable than any 12 winch. The 12V winches also put a beating on your batteries...no alternater can keep up with the current draw of a 12V winch.

Hydraulics are great, but as half k pointed out there are two main drawbacks. Personally I only care about one which is that if the engine is stalled out your recovery ability is zero.

 

[bloc]

Just to add tech.. for those that do consider a hydraulic winch an option, do our power steering systems need any changes to work with them? Bigger reservoir? More cooling? Is the line speed limited by the size of our pump? I'd assume it is also dependent on engine RPM?

 

[greentruck]

SNIP
You have spent time, money and brainpower (showing ingenuity and overall cool workmanship) into figuring out how to make a s***ty winch almost as good as a quality winch and thats good for you, but a lot of us don't care or are uninterested in go down that road, so stop holding it against us.

SNIP

I really haven't seen much of anyone holding having a nice Warn against anyone. I have read a lot of invective about "s***ty winches" but I'll only hold that against you if you walked out to your truck right now, plugged in the controller, set the Blue Sea correctly if you have one, etc, then that fancy winch didn't spin. That's OK...you don't HAVE to tell us what the results were...

If that new winch didn't work out of the box, then that's when you find out how good the warranty is. Nice to know, but hardly a predictor of what happens 6 months from now when you're stuck somewhere. Will the inside of your controller look like the earlier picture? If so, doesn't matter what you spent, it's still a boat anchor. I've seen enough Warn's that look like that I know it can happen. Might be a good idea to take a pic of the inside of your black box, you know, for personal reference...you don't HAVE to show the rest of us.

I think we can agree that the 80 series is the ultimate 4-door luxury SUV, just about the best in several other classes of 4x4 trucks no matter how you slice it. And you know what? Most owners NEVER bother with a winch. They get everywhere they're going just fine. Maybe it's because their style of offroading is about getting somewhere rather than getting stuck so you can get your money's worth out of that winch? In any case, there's relatively few among us who feel it's an absolute necessity to have the world's ultimate winch on the world's ultimate 4x4. You do and that's fine. No need to spend any more time trying to make all the rest of us feel some sort of Cruiser shame over not following in your footsteps.

 

[80t0ylc]

So what has changed? the duty cycles before damage that a more 'expensive' winch can handle are still greatly superior to those that a cheap can, the load and rate of pull that a quality winch can handle is still above what a cheap winch can. And ALL, and I will stand behind this, all quality winches will work out of the box. Sure, go ahead work with your budget winch all day long and claim it is as good as an m12 or whatever but you all you are doing is blowing sunshine and unicorns up your ass.

You have spent time, money and brainpower (showing ingenuity and overall cool workmanship) into figuring out how to make a s***ty winch almost as good as a quality winch and thats good for you, but a lot of us don't care or are uninterested in go down that road, so stop holding it against us.

I am not trying to discount your efforts to make a budget winch viable, that is great tech and appreciated - realize that there are plenty of other people using quality winches out there that are perfectly happy with what we use.

Tell you what, superstar -why don't you pm Woody, and give him your opinion of the HF winches? See what kind of reply you get. In case you don't know who he is, he's the founder of this forum and has been running a HF 12k on an 80 for several years, now - successfully. Maybe you'll listen to him - you don't seem to be listening to anyone else. Don't know about any one else, but kinda getting tired of your repeated bs. Was warned about your Badland bashing from the HF thread. I bet the OP of this thread is getting tired of it, too. In case you forgot, he was asking about opinions and I think we all know yours - how can we forget?

 

[izzyandsue]

ooohh, this is getting nicely heated. I wouldn't get a HF winch, my money my decision, foolishly or not. RANT WARNING, WEAK HEARTS STOP READING NOW: "Those who do buy them, bless your heart, you and probably the tens of millions of Chinese (and probably more people all over Asia) drivers who rely on them and use them probably daily to make a living are all wrong and will get stranded, thats why they all have bicycles in China, because their winches stopped working."

We are very lucky to have choices.

 

[izzyandsue]

An easy piece of low-hanging fruit to grab is to put that dang black box under the hood.

That is a great idea, and some local club members did mention it, I didnt listen, too busy, whatever. In hindsight, would have been perfect. Before heading to the trails in the training ground I go to, they ask that you prep all your gear, out of bags, and hook up your winch (I did add the disconnect to the battery). So, I could imagine plugging in the controller through the grill, closing the hood, and now I am ready to rock as the controller is hanging from my side mirror. Perfect solution. Thanks.

 

[SmokingRocks]

Welp I feel like an a******, no I am not a superstar... I was a little more than tipsy and fired up (over some unrelated bull****) when I keyed that last response and it should not have been posted. I will leave the post up because I own my mistakes rather than trying to hide from them. I'm sorry guys, I love the cruiser community and truly enjoy being a part of it; to have annoyed or pissed off any of you bothers me. If our paths were to cross at a cruiser event I would never want to have any of you avoid or dislike my company based on a heated discussion on the interwebs. I have and still continue to learn a great deal from all of the members here and in person. The type of winch you have in your bumper is not a metric of who you are or what your experiences have been.

Opinions are just that, we each have our own based on first hand experiences through life. I have mine you have your's I will leave it at that.

I hope you can accept my apology and we can move on. Furthermore my apologies to the OP for having a hand in turning this thread into an internet slug fest.

 

[half k cruiser]

Just to add tech.. for those that do consider a hydraulic winch an option, do our power steering systems need any changes to work with them? Bigger reservoir? More cooling? Is the line speed limited by the size of our pump? I'd assume it is also dependent on engine RPM?

I believe there are several on here that run them with no upgrade to the power steering system. I remember looking at the specs for required output and what our pumps put out and thinking it wasn't going to be an issue. I would think the line speed is more limited by gearing then pump power. The MM winches for example have a two speed gearbox, one speed for retrieving line and one speed for actual pulling. I have heard line speed during pulls is pretty snail like, but its hard to argue with a 100% duty cycle if you think your going to need some extreme pulling power. I'm pretty sure the duty cycle is the main reason the tow companies use these.

@Izzyandsue for future reference what happened to your previous winch could very well happen to your new one if your doing any kind of water crossing or if you keep your control box mounted externally on the vehicle. Its not a bad idea to open them up once in awhile and make sure stuff like that isn't going on. My plan for mine was just to mount the solenoid sans box inside the engine bay similar to what @greentruck did. The warm air should keep it dry and a quick pop of the hood will allow me to inspect the terminals and connections. It seems like the solenoids are the most common failure point of winches regardless of brand.

 

[Douglas S]

Albright contactor eliminates most/all issues related to water ingression into the control box. It's a simple upgrade that can be made to any winch, and is found on some new Warn winches and likely other brands as well.

The most common failure point tends to be the solenoids especially as winches age.

 

[jwilliams]

The MM hydraulics are nice with the only two drawbacks being slow line speed ( not so bad ) and they don't work if the vehicle is stalled out or on its lid for those who are worried about such things. Other than that there is a reason you see them on every flatbed wrecker !

Agree, I have had my MM Hydro for 13 years on two trucks, and had absolutely ZERO issues with it.

Hydraulics are great, but as half k pointed out there are two main drawbacks. Personally I only care about one which is that if the engine is stalled out your recovery ability is zero.

If you have an electric winch, how long can you pull a truck that is dead? To me this is a moot point.

Just to add tech.. for those that do consider a hydraulic winch an option, do our power steering systems need any changes to work with them? Bigger reservoir? More cooling? Is the line speed limited by the size of our pump? I'd assume it is also dependent on engine RPM?

The winch does work without power steering system changes, you just buy the Toyota adaptor kit from MileMarker.
The winch is plumbed in-line with the pump and box, so it does hold more fluid. I have never had a need for more cooling.


It really has been a great winch to me. Am I a hardcore rock crawler, No. Do I submerge the truck in water over the hood with the potential to stall the engine, No. I am a DD, and my wheeling and driving reflects that.

The hydro does have a nice place in the winch line up and I recognize that, but there are also different kinds of wheeling. Slow and steady wins the race every time I have had to use mine.

 

[bloc]

I'm pretty sure the duty cycle is the main reason the tow companies use these.

I suspect a bigger factor is that tow trucks generally already have robust hydraulic power systems installed for boom or flatbed controls, and running an electric winch would serve no real purpose over a hydraulic.. but the duty cycle probably doesn't hurt.

I've witnessed a tow truck snap a 3/8" cable trying to drag a small SUV up and over a concrete wall.. Tearing the fuel tank open in the process, which is why we were there. I would call the operator a TOTAL idiot except for the fact that he had the forethought to chain the suv to his flatbed.. which kept it from flipping back over the wall and smashing into someone's apartment when said cable snapped. They did have to bring in a heavy duty wrecker with a long boom to extricate the first wrecker from under the dangling SUV and ultimately drag the thing onto flat ground. Unfortunately I deleted the pics of this CF from my phone recently.

Either way.. the power of that hydraulic winch was impressive. The bang it made when the cable popped was crazy.. fortunately no one was hurt.

 

[Douglas S]

If you want the best you should have one of these RED Winches - Electrical or if hydraulic is what you want, one of these RED Winch Hydraulic 4x4 Challenge and Competition Winches

 

[half k cruiser]

@bloc i suspect we are both right. The big diesel flatbed wreckers probably do have more than enough electrical power to support any winch. Our trucks at work have 400 amp alternators and I suspect the wreckers have similar. They do already have the hydraulic systems in place for the beds though. I have seen those guys do some impressive stuff and some very long pulls with 0 issue. I can't remember if the last wrecker I saw had steel cable or synthetic. I want to say it was gray synthetic.

For those that think they may need to roll somebody back on there shoes or extract a car lacking tow points, I recomend adding something like this to your kit. Great deal on Mo-Clamp 6317 at ToolTopia.com . There are also some that are more T shaped that go up into slots on the frame and then turn sideways to lock.

 

[jwilliams]

Here is a semi-decent video I took to show the line speed of the MM 10.5k hydro winch on my previous truck.
I know this might seem like an eternity to some of you who are used to faster line speeds, but to each their own. It got me out in about 10 min.
This was on my LR Disco II..

 

[greentruck]

Albright contactor eliminates most/all issues related to water ingression into the control box. It's a simple upgrade that can be made to any winch, and is found on some new Warn winches and likely other brands as well.

The most common failure point tends to be the solenoids especially as winches age.

Yep, so true. And an easy (usually) and reasonably priced upgrade to your winch if not so equipped already.

But don't let that image of corrosion fade, either. Even if the Albright is good, corroded connections remain problematic, to say the least. Still a good idea to protect or at least regularly inspect what's inside the black box every so often, as well as to test the winch at least annually if you're like me, at the age when you don't get yourself hung-up regularly.

 

[greentruck]

SNIP

I hope you can accept my apology and we can move on. Furthermore my apologies to the OP for having a hand in turning this thread into an internet slug fest.

Apology accepted.

I understand the passion. We're all in 80s, right? I sure wouldn't mind having a shiny new Warn, but lord know what the Finance Minister would've made me sell to buy one.

 

[White Stripe]

I disagree that a electric winch works when the battery is dead is a moot point. Even if it will pull you 10 feet with the battery dead, sometimes thats all you need. If your truck is rolled over, and all you have is a pto or a hydraulic winch-your screwed. But an electric...your battery should give you enough juice to at least get on your wheels. If you stalled out in a river with deep water, at least you can winch yourself to the shallower water and use a comealong from their. Unless you are crossing the Mississippi that is, and in that case, shame on you for trying it as a lone truck.

 

[White Stripe]

Here is a pretty cool winch comparison...
Tug of War: The Ultimate 12v Winch Test