ace10 said:
Less safe for who??
Will Sliders Add Side Impact Strength??? (1 Viewer)
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Less safe for who??
It seems most of the slider performace for helping with side impact will depend on it's height i.e. will the offending vehicle's bumper actually hit the slider. So things like lift height and tire size come into play. According the NHTSA's Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 215, "Exterior Protection," car bumpers are required to be 16 to 20 inches from the ground.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/studies/Bumper/Index.html
Measuring my truck it looks like sliders with stock tires and suspension would be at about 14". So add sliders, 2.5" inches for an OME and 1" for 285/75R16 tires and this puts your "Side Impact Barriers" at 17.5". Almost smack in the middle of most car bumpers.
How is that for justifying every '80 owner adding sliders, 2.5" OME and 285 tires.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/studies/Bumper/Index.html
Measuring my truck it looks like sliders with stock tires and suspension would be at about 14". So add sliders, 2.5" inches for an OME and 1" for 285/75R16 tires and this puts your "Side Impact Barriers" at 17.5". Almost smack in the middle of most car bumpers.
How is that for justifying every '80 owner adding sliders, 2.5" OME and 285 tires.
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My take, as limited and stupid as it may be is real simple..............................
BRING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On a serious note I believe they would add serious protection from a collision such as a T-bone. Saw the same show and kinda smiled thinking yaa go ahead and do dat to my truck. You'll be sorry.
BRING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On a serious note I believe they would add serious protection from a collision such as a T-bone. Saw the same show and kinda smiled
thinking yaa go ahead and do dat to my truck. You'll be sorry. 
My take on it, as limited and stupid is ...
My Slider Is Your Crumple Zone!!!
Seriously I think the physics of the matter makes the above the main message.
My Slider Is Your Crumple Zone!!!
Seriously I think the physics of the matter makes the above the main message.
alia176
SILVER Star
I just hope I don't get T-Boned by another guy from this board in my Cruiser! 
That's gonna leave a mark!
On another note, a friend in a Disco with the usual armoring T-boned a smaller import car and sent it across the intersection. He was going about 35mpg and was holding his coffee. He said he never even spilled it The other driver was shaken and stirred and the car was a loss.
That's gonna leave a mark!On another note, a friend in a Disco with the usual armoring T-boned a smaller import car and sent it across the intersection. He was going about 35mpg and was holding his coffee. He said he never even spilled it
The other driver was shaken and stirred and the car was a loss.
Hmmmmmm
IMO, I think much of this slider impact stuff is waaaay overblown when sitting in a big, heavy vehicle such as Land Cruiser. If you really think about it, the issue is likely to be about tipping or rolling - given the lift height many of us have - the modifications we make to our rigs negate the basic safety design Toyota engineers planned for. Regardless, anyone losing sleep at night can buy an H2/3 or a dump truck. And let's face it, the biggest threat (if one thinks this through) is likely to come from an inexperienced soccer Mom driving a big MoFo SUV her HUSBAND put her in for safety (I see this scenario all the time living across the street from an exclusive k-8 private school here in South Florida) - she gets in over her head, panics or loses control and it's SUV versus SUV...food for thought.
IMO, I think much of this slider impact stuff is waaaay overblown when sitting in a big, heavy vehicle such as Land Cruiser. If you really think about it, the issue is likely to be about tipping or rolling - given the lift height many of us have - the modifications we make to our rigs negate the basic safety design Toyota engineers planned for. Regardless, anyone losing sleep at night can buy an H2/3 or a dump truck. And let's face it, the biggest threat (if one thinks this through) is likely to come from an inexperienced soccer Mom driving a big MoFo SUV her HUSBAND put her in for safety (I see this scenario all the time living across the street from an exclusive k-8 private school here in South Florida) - she gets in over her head, panics or loses control and it's SUV versus SUV...food for thought.
LandCruiserPhil said:
you, me, anyone who happens to be in front of, or occupying, said cruiser with sliders attempting an emergency stop. longer stopping distance is NOT a good thing, unless you can explain how it is not... i'll take my chances with the side impact in order to save x feet of stopping distance.
this is a huge suv, not a about a miata being crushed by an tractor-trailer (which happened to me). a roll bar in said convertible can save your noggin in a rollover, but it will also improve the side impact strenght of such a small open-top vehicle.
If you are concerned about the effect of 150 pounds of "cargo" on a 5000 pound vehicle, you need a different car.
As I mentioned earlier, sliders are not intended as "hiway armor" in the first place.
As I mentioned earlier, sliders are not intended as "hiway armor" in the first place.
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If you ask me, bragging about how much damage might be done to another vehicle compared to your own in an accident is pretty immature and more than a little selfish, and is the kind of thinking that gives SUV drivers a bad name- do you really want your vehicle to inflict a lot of damage on another vehicle and its occupants in an accident? Wouldn't you rather that both vehicles came out such that everyone involved was safe and unharmed over anything else?
I think a lot of soccer moms (and their husbands) think the way many of you think with the "bring it on" and "hit this!" attitude. When you are hit by an equally massive (or more massive) SUV, you'll be worried about a lot more than "scratching your sliders". A rollover (whether in an impact with another SUV or not) isn't something to downplay, as it seems a lot of you are doing. Especially considering the lifts many of us have, and the lack of a roll stability control system or even DSC, a rollover during emergency maneuvers is much more likely than in more modern SUVs with this system. The 80 also has no canopy airbag system, so a side impact and/or rollover (especially in a high-speed accident) can cause some serious damage to the vehicle and its occupants.
Stop thinking about Miatas totalling themselves against your massive sliders and start thinking reality, guys: soccer moms and dads drive massive SUVs as station wagons these days. Safety in a rollover situation should be a serious consideration. Those of you who have seen photos of even minor rollovers have seen the 80's roof crushes just as easily as anything else out there without a rollcage, and the Volvo XC90's reinforced roof has a major advantage in this area.
If you are *really* concerned about putting your wives in something safe above all else, stop fooling yourselves as to the safety of an 80. Check the stats on the added safety of side airbags, DSC, and the new rollover avoidance and protection systems. Get an SUV with side airbags and rollover protection, not an SUV that offers significantly less side-impact protection and is likely to rollover during emergency maneuvers or in an accident and flatten its own roof.
Just MHO.
I think a lot of soccer moms (and their husbands) think the way many of you think with the "bring it on" and "hit this!" attitude. When you are hit by an equally massive (or more massive) SUV, you'll be worried about a lot more than "scratching your sliders". A rollover (whether in an impact with another SUV or not) isn't something to downplay, as it seems a lot of you are doing. Especially considering the lifts many of us have, and the lack of a roll stability control system or even DSC, a rollover during emergency maneuvers is much more likely than in more modern SUVs with this system. The 80 also has no canopy airbag system, so a side impact and/or rollover (especially in a high-speed accident) can cause some serious damage to the vehicle and its occupants.
Stop thinking about Miatas totalling themselves against your massive sliders and start thinking reality, guys: soccer moms and dads drive massive SUVs as station wagons these days. Safety in a rollover situation should be a serious consideration. Those of you who have seen photos of even minor rollovers have seen the 80's roof crushes just as easily as anything else out there without a rollcage, and the Volvo XC90's reinforced roof has a major advantage in this area.
If you are *really* concerned about putting your wives in something safe above all else, stop fooling yourselves as to the safety of an 80. Check the stats on the added safety of side airbags, DSC, and the new rollover avoidance and protection systems. Get an SUV with side airbags and rollover protection, not an SUV that offers significantly less side-impact protection and is likely to rollover during emergency maneuvers or in an accident and flatten its own roof.
Just MHO.
BOUNDER said:IMO, I think much of this slider impact stuff is waaaay overblown when sitting in a big, heavy vehicle such as Land Cruiser. If you really think about it, the issue is likely to be about tipping or rolling - given the lift height many of us have - the modifications we make to our rigs negate the basic safety design Toyota engineers planned for. Regardless, anyone losing sleep at night can buy an H2/3 or a dump truck. And let's face it, the biggest threat (if one thinks this through) is likely to come from an inexperienced soccer Mom driving a big MoFo SUV her HUSBAND put her in for safety (I see this scenario all the time living across the street from an exclusive k-8 private school here in South Florida) - she gets in over her head, panics or loses control and it's SUV versus SUV...food for thought.
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Stopping distance is the responsibility of the driver of his/her vehicle.
How much good will ceiling air bags do when a 7K+ 80 is sitting on top of them or when an ARB comes poking threw the window. Plus I have never seen a locked up Volvo with 35’s so I will keep my 80 with armor and take my chances.
How much good will ceiling air bags do when a 7K+ 80 is sitting on top of them or when an ARB comes poking threw the window. Plus I have never seen a locked up Volvo with 35’s so I will keep my 80 with armor and take my chances.
alaskacruiser said:
Good points. That's one reason we got the 100. Wanted to make sure it had traction control, side and curtain airbags, etc. To be honest, a minivan would have been the safest choice, but I couldn't handle one of those, plus I like full-time 4WD and the ability to take it in snow and other mild 4-wheeling that I will do with the family. This is truly an all-purpose vehicle. And, it's a Land Cruiser!
alaskacruiser said:
Respectfully, I think your statement is somewhat harsh and, mmmuchworse, illogical; for someone to hit my sliders means that someone hit my sliders, at least in the context of my stupid (admitted that already) statement and probably also in real life reality; short of me sliding sideways head on into 'your' car, its gonna be hard to "make my slider your crumple zone" unless 'you' made it 'your' crumple zone. (Not you personally of course, not anyone, hopefully)
I do not think that anyone is attempting to "outdamage" anything at all, I think the context of the statements is that there are alot of absolute idiots on the road at all times and if one of those absolute idiots happens to smack someone's slider at anything below say fifteen mph, well, guess what, the slider just 'activated' the other car's crumple zone. If someone smacks a slider at say thirty than no matter what both vehicles are gonna havta take a lickin, the 80 takes a small one and the car takes a big one. And if someone smacks a slider at say forty five or more, i think no matter what the rig is going to be just as likely to roll, or not to roll as a stock vehicle - the lifts and tires and whatsnot makes that more likely than the sliders do i think.
Its not about outdamaging its about outprotecting.
Its definitely not at all about actually hurting anyone.
Remember sliders are totally an off-road adaptation, the question was just "what about onroad safety for self and others" as an added advantage.
When doing the initial research about buying my 80 I read on , epinions, or edmunds or somewhere. This guy got T-boned by a 300zx doing 55, the four passengers walked away without a scratch. Makes you feel pretty good/safe.
I bought my 80 after assessing the damge to a 91 that took a 35 mph tbone hit from a 85 buick skylark. this guy was bone stock and was hit at the front ednge of the rear door.
He was able to drive it home and was not hurt at all. it messed up the rocker panel and killed both the doors but he was safe and fine. Would sliders have helped him??? not really as this force instead of being absorbed by the sheet metal of the unibody structure would have been transferred directly to the frame, but the end result would have been he walked away from an accident that in a honda accord he probably would have been killed.
Dave
He was able to drive it home and was not hurt at all. it messed up the rocker panel and killed both the doors but he was safe and fine. Would sliders have helped him??? not really as this force instead of being absorbed by the sheet metal of the unibody structure would have been transferred directly to the frame, but the end result would have been he walked away from an accident that in a honda accord he probably would have been killed.
Dave
An 80 is one of the safest vehicles on the road. Not THE safest, but at the far end of the curve. An 80 with an ARB is safer. An 80 with Slee sliders is safer yet. An 80 with an offroad rear bumper is safer yet.
Taking an already stout vehicle and reinforcing it for offroad use also dramatically reinforces the vehicle to withstand crash forces. In some accident types and speeds will the passengers experience more G's due to these mods? Almost certainly, but that's the type of decision an automotive safety engineer makes on a routine basis. Design the vehicle to perform well on the full frontal test and it may be too soft in the front to do well on the German offset test. Design it to crush at a rate that will decelerate the passengers gently against a 30 mph head on with another vehicle of like size and weight and it may allow too much penetration when hit by a larger vehicle at higher speeds. Everything's a trade off.
But you can scarcely argue with solid steel perimeter armor, which is essentially what you're adding with the above items I mentioned. There's little debate that interior safety developments like airbags and the like are fabulous - no question.
I've had a few "fireside" discussions with some of my engineer buddies about this over the years, and one was particularly telling. You are going to be T boned at 45 mph by a Honda Accord and get to choose whether you're in a Suburban or a Volvo sedan with all it's side airbags and such. In the end, nobody was willing to sit there in the Volvo - everyone choose the full frame, higher height and nearly 50% greater mass of the Suburban.
Ironically, a few years later I was behind a new Suburban at a 4 way stop sign when a couple kids missed their stop sign and T boned it at around 35 in a Mazda pickup. It shoved the Suburban about 6 feet. The Suburban driver calmly put his 4 ways on and backed up into the grass before opening all his doors and letting some 7 uninjured passengers out to sit on the grass waiting for the police. The pickup's engine was shoved back 6 inches and its frame was badly bent - likely a total.
So, gimmee mass and steel though I'd prefer it with all the latest seatbelts and bags...
DougM
Taking an already stout vehicle and reinforcing it for offroad use also dramatically reinforces the vehicle to withstand crash forces. In some accident types and speeds will the passengers experience more G's due to these mods? Almost certainly, but that's the type of decision an automotive safety engineer makes on a routine basis. Design the vehicle to perform well on the full frontal test and it may be too soft in the front to do well on the German offset test. Design it to crush at a rate that will decelerate the passengers gently against a 30 mph head on with another vehicle of like size and weight and it may allow too much penetration when hit by a larger vehicle at higher speeds. Everything's a trade off.
But you can scarcely argue with solid steel perimeter armor, which is essentially what you're adding with the above items I mentioned. There's little debate that interior safety developments like airbags and the like are fabulous - no question.
I've had a few "fireside" discussions with some of my engineer buddies about this over the years, and one was particularly telling. You are going to be T boned at 45 mph by a Honda Accord and get to choose whether you're in a Suburban or a Volvo sedan with all it's side airbags and such. In the end, nobody was willing to sit there in the Volvo - everyone choose the full frame, higher height and nearly 50% greater mass of the Suburban.
Ironically, a few years later I was behind a new Suburban at a 4 way stop sign when a couple kids missed their stop sign and T boned it at around 35 in a Mazda pickup. It shoved the Suburban about 6 feet. The Suburban driver calmly put his 4 ways on and backed up into the grass before opening all his doors and letting some 7 uninjured passengers out to sit on the grass waiting for the police. The pickup's engine was shoved back 6 inches and its frame was badly bent - likely a total.
So, gimmee mass and steel though I'd prefer it with all the latest seatbelts and bags...
DougM
Well put.
Now off to the wife to talk about sliders....(Arb OK'd, just have to save, rear Slee only when I take it over.... )
Now off to the wife to talk about sliders....(Arb OK'd, just have to save, rear Slee only when I take it over....
)
semlin
curmudgeon
interesting debate. There is absolutely no doubt in mind that the 80 is one of safest passenger vehicles on the road to be in when an accident occurs.
Now here's a twist. My wife does not like to drive my 80 because she is afraid of hurting others with it in an accident. When she was driving my brother's stock 80 some guy turned left in front of her without noticing her and she T-boned him at about 25 mph (struck the front quarter panel). She completely obliterated the front end of a tercel up to the firewall while doing no real damage to the 80 other than destroying the factory bumper, headlight housing and valance. She drove the 80 home and I drove it artound for the weekend then off to the body shop. I was very happy she was in the 80 instead of our forester. She is not so sure. She believes she would have killed the tercel's passenger if the tercel had gotten further into the turn. She now thinks the ARB bumper on my truck is a lethal weapon. She does not want to have an advantage in an accident situation if that advantage would make it more likely the other person would be injured. She believes this even if that makes her (and our kids) more vulnerable to injury.
I find this argument hard to debate. "So long as there are big trucks out there, why not have one as well" does not sit well with me and nor does "I am entitled to take whatever steps I need to to protect my family even if that increases the risk to others". I am left with the fact that I didn't buy the 80 to be safer in an accident in the first place. I bought it to go camping and carry lots of stuff and people, and I don't think there is any gratuitous bulk in the truck for what I need (or at least no one has built something lighter that will do what I want as well) so if the truck makes my family a little safer and others a little more at risk if there is an accident, that is a by-product that does not trouble me one bit.
Now here's a twist. My wife does not like to drive my 80 because she is afraid of hurting others with it in an accident. When she was driving my brother's stock 80 some guy turned left in front of her without noticing her and she T-boned him at about 25 mph (struck the front quarter panel). She completely obliterated the front end of a tercel up to the firewall while doing no real damage to the 80 other than destroying the factory bumper, headlight housing and valance. She drove the 80 home and I drove it artound for the weekend then off to the body shop. I was very happy she was in the 80 instead of our forester. She is not so sure. She believes she would have killed the tercel's passenger if the tercel had gotten further into the turn. She now thinks the ARB bumper on my truck is a lethal weapon. She does not want to have an advantage in an accident situation if that advantage would make it more likely the other person would be injured. She believes this even if that makes her (and our kids) more vulnerable to injury.
I find this argument hard to debate. "So long as there are big trucks out there, why not have one as well" does not sit well with me and nor does "I am entitled to take whatever steps I need to to protect my family even if that increases the risk to others". I am left with the fact that I didn't buy the 80 to be safer in an accident in the first place. I bought it to go camping and carry lots of stuff and people, and I don't think there is any gratuitous bulk in the truck for what I need (or at least no one has built something lighter that will do what I want as well) so if the truck makes my family a little safer and others a little more at risk if there is an accident, that is a by-product that does not trouble me one bit.
turbocruiser said:I do not think that anyone is attempting to "outdamage" anything at all, I think the context of the statements is that there are alot of absolute idiots on the road at all times and if one of those absolute idiots happens to smack someone's slider at anything below say fifteen mph, well, guess what, the slider just 'activated' the other car's crumple zone.
Its not about outdamaging its about outprotecting.
Its definitely not at all about actually hurting anyone.
Remember sliders are totally an off-road adaptation, the question was just "what about onroad safety for self and others" as an added advantage.
Well said turbo, well said.
