Why aren't there aluminum radius arms? (1 Viewer)

[Squeegee]

I’m not sure this would be a cost effective solution for a problem that doesn’t exist. You can get a really good head start on a 3 link for the cost of radius arms that are needlessly lighter

 

[PIP]

I’m not sure this would be a cost effective solution for a problem that doesn’t exist. You can get a really good head start on a 3 link for the cost of radius arms that are needlessly lighter

What is different about the problem that these don't solve compared to either fabricated or machined steel arms?

It reads like you are implying there's a big pricetag to to aluminum? I'm saying there is, but that the base material cost is not the biggest factor in the cost of making something like this.

If you analyze the Delta arms you have four pieces of 3/8 or 1/2" A36, I can't tell how thick they are, so just guessing. These are laser cut from sheet by an outside vendor, then they have to be cleaned where the welds will go, the tubes have to be cut, bored to size and chamfered on a lathe or mill, cleaned and all the parts would be loaded into a well thought out fixture (one of several for the various correction angles). You have to skip around while you're welding otherwise you'll put too much heat in one area and you won't have a very straight finished part. It also matters more than people think that the same person welds parts like these every time. You get a new guy and put him on it and the parts will change dimensionally because of different techniques and skill level. Lots of variables in this. Then you have this 500 degree arm with hot clamping elements you have to remove so you can load the next arm. Keep in mind, this also takes up a large area. You have a pallet of laser cut blanks and a big table holding a fixture or two. While the welder is welding he can't do anything else. No answering the phone or responding to threads on Mud.

You could possibly skip the fixture step and make the parts self-locating, but that would leave a lot of opportunity for error.

Then the arms have to be deburred, all the dingle berries knocked off. probably hit the whole thing quickly with a wire wheel on a 9" grinder then hit any rough spots with a flap wheel on a small grinder.

Then they go to powdercoat where they get blasted and coated. The bores would need masked, because powdercoat in the bores would not work. That adds a few bucks to the labor. Back from PC they drill a couple holes and rivet on their badge. The holes could be laser cut earlier, but drilling later on would be more reliable.

Then they are carefully packed into a box. PC chips easily and customers hate chipped powdercoat so there's a lot of care at this point to keep them safe.

There's probably $120 +/- $20 in steel, laser cutting, welding consumables and powdercoat in a pair of Delta arms. The rest is all labor and overhead.

Now lets contrast that with 7075 aluminum.

Sawed aluminum blanks are delivered to my shop. I forklift pallet next to machine. Load fixture into machine and set offsets, and load two special tools, the boring heads I would use to ensure the bushing bores are dead nuts every time. probably 15 minutes setup time. I load a blank into one side of the fixture and hit start. I go do other things for 16 minutes. When I return I flip the two half cut parts onto expanding bosses on the fixture, load another blank onto the other half of the fixture and hit cycle start again. The 35 minutes later I come back to one complete pair of radius arms and one half set. I keep doing that in between other things until my pile of blanks is gone. Then I take them down the street to my anodizer. Then I pick them up and package them. I don't really have to be careful with them

So I'd probably have $100 labor and $40 in anodize plus whatever the aluminum costs, lets say $350/set. So I got $500 ish in a pair of arms, but I made 20 sets in a single day and did other stuff while I was doing it. I have to account for the work it takes to sell and store them and having $5000-$10,000 cash tied up in some metal on the shelf, but I didn't spend a week under a hood welding up a dozen sets. So then what margin is fair? I know on some stuff I make, the material cost is 20% and that works pretty good. I don't think anyone would pay $2500 for a set of radius arms, maybe titanium ones, maybe. Because it doesn't take much to bang out a bunch I'd probably be just fine with a margin under 50% which prices them right inline with steel arms.

 

[Dusten]

What is different about the problem that these don't solve compared to either fabricated or machined steel arms?

It reads like you are implying there's a big pricetag to to aluminum? I'm saying there is, but that the base material cost is not the biggest factor in the cost of making something like this.

If you analyze the Delta arms you have four pieces of 3/8 or 1/2" A36, I can't tell how thick they are, so just guessing. These are laser cut from sheet by an outside vendor, then they have to be cleaned where the welds will go, the tubes have to be cut, bored to size and chamfered on a lathe or mill, cleaned and all the parts would be loaded into a well thought out fixture (one of several for the various correction angles). You have to skip around while you're welding otherwise you'll put too much heat in one area and you won't have a very straight finished part. It also matters more than people think that the same person welds parts like these every time. You get a new guy and put him on it and the parts will change dimensionally because of different techniques and skill level. Lots of variables in this. Then you have this 500 degree arm with hot clamping elements you have to remove so you can load the next arm. Keep in mind, this also takes up a large area. You have a pallet of laser cut blanks and a big table holding a fixture or two. While the welder is welding he can't do anything else. No answering the phone or responding to threads on Mud.

You could possibly skip the fixture step and make the parts self-locating, but that would leave a lot of opportunity for error.

Then the arms have to be deburred, all the dingle berries knocked off. probably hit the whole thing quickly with a wire wheel on a 9" grinder then hit any rough spots with a flap wheel on a small grinder.

Then they go to powdercoat where they get blasted and coated. The bores would need masked, because powdercoat in the bores would not work. That adds a few bucks to the labor. Back from PC they drill a couple holes and rivet on their badge. The holes could be laser cut earlier, but drilling later on would be more reliable.

Then they are carefully packed into a box. PC chips easily and customers hate chipped powdercoat so there's a lot of care at this point to keep them safe.

There's probably $120 +/- $20 in steel, laser cutting, welding consumables and powdercoat in a pair of Delta arms. The rest is all labor and overhead.

Now lets contrast that with 7075 aluminum.

Sawed aluminum blanks are delivered to my shop. I forklift pallet next to machine. Load fixture into machine and set offsets, and load two special tools, the boring heads I would use to ensure the bushing bores are dead nuts every time. probably 15 minutes setup time. I load a blank into one side of the fixture and hit start. I go do other things for 16 minutes. When I return I flip the two half cut parts onto expanding bosses on the fixture, load another blank onto the other half of the fixture and hit cycle start again. The 35 minutes later I come back to one complete pair of radius arms and one half set. I keep doing that in between other things until my pile of blanks is gone. Then I take them down the street to my anodizer. Then I pick them up and package them. I don't really have to be careful with them

So I'd probably have $100 labor and $40 in anodize plus whatever the aluminum costs, lets say $350/set. So I got $500 ish in a pair of arms, but I made 20 sets in a single day and did other stuff while I was doing it. I have to account for the work it takes to sell and store them and having $5000-$10,000 cash tied up in some metal on the shelf, but I didn't spend a week under a hood welding up a dozen sets. So then what margin is fair? I know on some stuff I make, the material cost is 20% and that works pretty good. I don't think anyone would pay $2500 for a set of radius arms, maybe titanium ones, maybe. Because it doesn't take much to bang out a bunch I'd probably be just fine with a margin under 50% which prices them right inline with steel arms.

The reason they don't exist, I think is part of your equation for cost of steel.

If company A can't even laser cut their own plate, then they probably don't have a cnc machine, let alone the skill required to program one.

If you think they'd sell, build them.

 

[PIP]

The reason they don't exist, I think is part of your equation for cost of steel.

If company A can't even laser cut their own plate, then they probably don't have a cnc machine, let alone the skill required to program one.

If you think they'd sell, build them.

A laser is a simple machine with a huge cost of entry. Lasers are generally not owned by small companies that do anything outside of laser cutting because a laser cutting business is essentially a large building warehousing sheet steel and aluminum so they can feed the laser(s).

Programming a laser is not difficult at all.

Most small fab shops have a CNC plasma table they do well with for onesy twosy stuff, but they don't save any money using it over farming their parts out to a real laser cutter and plasma cut parts usually such compared to laser.

Typical plasma tolerance would be +/- 1/16" whereas laser is more like +/- .005" for a good operator.

 

[Dusten]

A laser is a simple machine with a huge cost of entry. Lasers are generally not owned by small companies that do anything outside of laser cutting because a laser cutting business is essentially a large building warehousing sheet steel and aluminum so they can feed the laser(s).

Programming a laser is not difficult at all.

Most small fab shops have a CNC plasma table they do well with for onesy twosy stuff, but they don't save any money using it over farming their parts out to a real laser cutter and plasma cut parts usually such compared to laser.

Typical plasma tolerance would be +/- 1/16" whereas laser is more like +/- .005" for a good operator.

I wasn't referring to the laser.

I meant if they don't have a laser, the cost and training involved in a cnc machine capable of machining arms is likely out of the range too.

The rig is 30 years old. The aftermarket is impressive. If a company was capable and a market existed infeel the arms would.

You're capable. Show us the market exists.

 

[PIP]

I wasn't referring to the laser.

I meant if they don't have a laser, the cost and training involved in a cnc machine capable of machining arms is likely out of the range too.

The rig is 30 years old. The aftermarket is impressive. If a company was capable and a market existed infeel the arms would.

You're capable. Show us the market exists.

I misunderstood, sorry.

That's a big reason why I ended up buying an 80- Because people are so damn passionate about them. I like that and it's a pretty neat vehicle all around.

I think that whatever the market is, whether it's vehicles or fidget spinners or designer flower pots, if there's strong, quality support it increases the popularity and interest in that market.

I'll make a couple and we shall see what happens.

 

[Delta VS]

What is different about the problem that these don't solve compared to either fabricated or machined steel arms?

It reads like you are implying there's a big pricetag to to aluminum? I'm saying there is, but that the base material cost is not the biggest factor in the cost of making something like this.

If you analyze the Delta arms you have four pieces of 3/8 or 1/2" A36, I can't tell how thick they are, so just guessing. These are laser cut from sheet by an outside vendor, then they have to be cleaned where the welds will go, the tubes have to be cut, bored to size and chamfered on a lathe or mill, cleaned and all the parts would be loaded into a well thought out fixture (one of several for the various correction angles). You have to skip around while you're welding otherwise you'll put too much heat in one area and you won't have a very straight finished part. It also matters more than people think that the same person welds parts like these every time. You get a new guy and put him on it and the parts will change dimensionally because of different techniques and skill level. Lots of variables in this. Then you have this 500 degree arm with hot clamping elements you have to remove so you can load the next arm. Keep in mind, this also takes up a large area. You have a pallet of laser cut blanks and a big table holding a fixture or two. While the welder is welding he can't do anything else. No answering the phone or responding to threads on Mud.

You could possibly skip the fixture step and make the parts self-locating, but that would leave a lot of opportunity for error.

Then the arms have to be deburred, all the dingle berries knocked off. probably hit the whole thing quickly with a wire wheel on a 9" grinder then hit any rough spots with a flap wheel on a small grinder.

Then they go to powdercoat where they get blasted and coated. The bores would need masked, because powdercoat in the bores would not work. That adds a few bucks to the labor. Back from PC they drill a couple holes and rivet on their badge. The holes could be laser cut earlier, but drilling later on would be more reliable.

Then they are carefully packed into a box. PC chips easily and customers hate chipped powdercoat so there's a lot of care at this point to keep them safe.

There's probably $120 +/- $20 in steel, laser cutting, welding consumables and powdercoat in a pair of Delta arms. The rest is all labor and overhead.

Now lets contrast that with 7075 aluminum.

Sawed aluminum blanks are delivered to my shop. I forklift pallet next to machine. Load fixture into machine and set offsets, and load two special tools, the boring heads I would use to ensure the bushing bores are dead nuts every time. probably 15 minutes setup time. I load a blank into one side of the fixture and hit start. I go do other things for 16 minutes. When I return I flip the two half cut parts onto expanding bosses on the fixture, load another blank onto the other half of the fixture and hit cycle start again. The 35 minutes later I come back to one complete pair of radius arms and one half set. I keep doing that in between other things until my pile of blanks is gone. Then I take them down the street to my anodizer. Then I pick them up and package them. I don't really have to be careful with them

So I'd probably have $100 labor and $40 in anodize plus whatever the aluminum costs, lets say $350/set. So I got $500 ish in a pair of arms, but I made 20 sets in a single day and did other stuff while I was doing it. I have to account for the work it takes to sell and store them and having $5000-$10,000 cash tied up in some metal on the shelf, but I didn't spend a week under a hood welding up a dozen sets. So then what margin is fair? I know on some stuff I make, the material cost is 20% and that works pretty good. I don't think anyone would pay $2500 for a set of radius arms, maybe titanium ones, maybe. Because it doesn't take much to bang out a bunch I'd probably be just fine with a margin under 50% which prices them right inline with steel arms.

Boy oh boy am I glad we don't do it that way. If you can make the numbers work, I am certainly looking forward to seeing what you bring to market.

 

[cruisermatt]

Boy oh boy am I glad we don't do it that way. If you can make the numbers work, I am certainly looking forward to seeing what you bring to market.

What do you do that's different from what he described? Do you have some sort of magical new way to manufacture welded steel parts?

 

[PIP]

Boy oh boy am I glad we don't do it that way. If you can make the numbers work, I am certainly looking forward to seeing what you bring to market.

Maybe it was a stretch, but I figured they didn't weld themselves together. lol.

Just wondering, I look at how they're designed, especially the little ring welded around the thin tubes and they look very hand built, one at a time, to me.

 

[Delta VS]

What do you do that's different from what he described? Do you have some sort of magical new way to manufacture welded steel parts?

magic and fairy dust, all around

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Someone made aluminum rear radius arms for a KZJ78 out of 7075. I suppose the fronts could be done in a similar manner.

Great photos in this link:

Кастомные задние рычаги из алюминия для Прадо 78, KZJ78W

В процессе лифта подвески было решено, что в первую очередь необходимо привести в норму углы заднего карданного вала и заодно убрать изгиб задних пружин, так как лифт получился около 3". Снял кардан…

www.drive2.com

Here's a video:

 

[Pascoscout]

I am not really familiar with 7075 but I've worked a lot with steel and aluminum over the years. The cost difference between the two is not as great as people expect. Material is sold by the pound, yes aluminum costs more per pound but you also buy a lot less pounds for the same project. It doesn't ever go lower than steel but it's not terribly higher. I built some folding bed frames for my toy hauler this summer, the cost increase to make them out of aluminum vs steel (80ft of tube) was like $25. I more than saved that in being able to leave the aluminum raw instead of having to paint or powder coat the steel.

Since you do have to typically run a larger section for aluminum how do you plan to address the points at which a larger section cannot be achieved, namely the connection points to the axel and frame. The brackets won't allow for making the parts any larger and if you had to change out brackets I think that'd be a deal breaker for most people. Or is 7075 strong enough that the same section size in these locations would still be ok?

I don't really get the argument that the weight savings isn't worth it. If the cost and strength is similar why would you not want to reduce the weight? I mean just think of all the extra light bars and kombucha you could carry... In all seriousness though if you can drop 20 lbs. or more from the arms, combined with weight reduction in other areas, it starts to add up to something significant. If you look at weight reducing techniques on many vehicles they are dimpling gussets to shave off a couple ounces per part. Reducing the weight of a single component by close to half is pretty dang good.

I also agree with you that the cost savings in labor is potentially significant. Sounds like you have the knowledge and equipment to make these happen on either a large or small scale basis. Other than having to obtain material, it even sounds like you could make these on demand with the low set up and machine time. Might make a nice side hustle. I for one would be happy to test a set for you, I need correction for a 3 inch lift. Look forward to seeing a finished product.

 

[PIP]

magic and fairy dust, all around

I am not really familiar with 7075 but I've worked a lot with steel and aluminum over the years. The cost difference between the two is not as great as people expect. Material is sold by the pound, yes aluminum costs more per pound but you also buy a lot less pounds for the same project. It doesn't ever go lower than steel but it's not terribly higher. I built some folding bed frames for my toy hauler this summer, the cost increase to make them out of aluminum vs steel (80ft of tube) was like $25. I more than saved that in being able to leave the aluminum raw instead of having to paint or powder coat the steel.

Since you do have to typically run a larger section for aluminum how do you plan to address the points at which a larger section cannot be achieved, namely the connection points to the axel and frame. The brackets won't allow for making the parts any larger and if you had to change out brackets I think that'd be a deal breaker for most people. Or is 7075 strong enough that the same section size in these locations would still be ok?

I don't really get the argument that the weight savings isn't worth it. If the cost and strength is similar why would you not want to reduce the weight? I mean just think of all the extra light bars and kombucha you could carry... In all seriousness though if you can drop 20 lbs. or more from the arms, combined with weight reduction in other areas, it starts to add up to something significant. If you look at weight reducing techniques on many vehicles they are dimpling gussets to shave off a couple ounces per part. Reducing the weight of a single component by close to half is pretty dang good.

I also agree with you that the cost savings in labor is potentially significant. Sounds like you have the knowledge and equipment to make these happen on either a large or small scale basis. Other than having to obtain material, it even sounds like you could make these on demand with the low set up and machine time. Might make a nice side hustle. I for one would be happy to test a set for you, I need correction for a 3 inch lift. Look forward to seeing a finished product.

Kombucha capacity is dangerously underrated.

7075 is not lower strength than mild steel so it would be fine to make the bosses surrounding the bushings same as stock. I would want to keep the section of the beam pretty thick, like the Slee arms. In my mind's theory of what happens to the front radius arms in a panic stop at speed with big sticky tires the last thing I want is a floppy/wiggley mid section. I'd like wide and tall.

The design in that Russian video posted above is very close to what I had in mind. Fat radii and smooth transitions.

I'm planning for a 3" lift for my 80 so that's happening.

 

[Squeegee]

What is different about the problem that these don't solve compared to either fabricated or machined steel arms?

It reads like you are implying there's a big pricetag to to aluminum? I'm saying there is, but that the base material cost is not the biggest factor in the cost of making something like this.

If you analyze the Delta arms you have four pieces of 3/8 or 1/2" A36, I can't tell how thick they are, so just guessing. These are laser cut from sheet by an outside vendor, then they have to be cleaned where the welds will go, the tubes have to be cut, bored to size and chamfered on a lathe or mill, cleaned and all the parts would be loaded into a well thought out fixture (one of several for the various correction angles). You have to skip around while you're welding otherwise you'll put too much heat in one area and you won't have a very straight finished part. It also matters more than people think that the same person welds parts like these every time. You get a new guy and put him on it and the parts will change dimensionally because of different techniques and skill level. Lots of variables in this. Then you have this 500 degree arm with hot clamping elements you have to remove so you can load the next arm. Keep in mind, this also takes up a large area. You have a pallet of laser cut blanks and a big table holding a fixture or two. While the welder is welding he can't do anything else. No answering the phone or responding to threads on Mud.

You could possibly skip the fixture step and make the parts self-locating, but that would leave a lot of opportunity for error.

Then the arms have to be deburred, all the dingle berries knocked off. probably hit the whole thing quickly with a wire wheel on a 9" grinder then hit any rough spots with a flap wheel on a small grinder.

Then they go to powdercoat where they get blasted and coated. The bores would need masked, because powdercoat in the bores would not work. That adds a few bucks to the labor. Back from PC they drill a couple holes and rivet on their badge. The holes could be laser cut earlier, but drilling later on would be more reliable.

Then they are carefully packed into a box. PC chips easily and customers hate chipped powdercoat so there's a lot of care at this point to keep them safe.

There's probably $120 +/- $20 in steel, laser cutting, welding consumables and powdercoat in a pair of Delta arms. The rest is all labor and overhead.

Now lets contrast that with 7075 aluminum.

Sawed aluminum blanks are delivered to my shop. I forklift pallet next to machine. Load fixture into machine and set offsets, and load two special tools, the boring heads I would use to ensure the bushing bores are dead nuts every time. probably 15 minutes setup time. I load a blank into one side of the fixture and hit start. I go do other things for 16 minutes. When I return I flip the two half cut parts onto expanding bosses on the fixture, load another blank onto the other half of the fixture and hit cycle start again. The 35 minutes later I come back to one complete pair of radius arms and one half set. I keep doing that in between other things until my pile of blanks is gone. Then I take them down the street to my anodizer. Then I pick them up and package them. I don't really have to be careful with them

So I'd probably have $100 labor and $40 in anodize plus whatever the aluminum costs, lets say $350/set. So I got $500 ish in a pair of arms, but I made 20 sets in a single day and did other stuff while I was doing it. I have to account for the work it takes to sell and store them and having $5000-$10,000 cash tied up in some metal on the shelf, but I didn't spend a week under a hood welding up a dozen sets. So then what margin is fair? I know on some stuff I make, the material cost is 20% and that works pretty good. I don't think anyone would pay $2500 for a set of radius arms, maybe titanium ones, maybe. Because it doesn't take much to bang out a bunch I'd probably be just fine with a margin under 50% which prices them right inline with steel arms.

Boy you have some free time. If you can make aluminum radius arms that compete with the current market arms then awesome. But at the end of the day. They don’t offer any benefit outside of a decrease in weight over the competition. But if you’re looking to do that, the best place to start looking to decrease weight is your roof, not the lowest thing on your 80.

Have you ever wondered why there aren’t aftermarket gas tank skids for 80s? No one has made them because the market isn’t asking for them, not because they’re a bad idea.

 

[use2bn83]

I haven’t read the entire thread, but if it saves you any brain damage..... I ventured down this road pretty far. There were 2 main reasons for not pursuing it further.

1. Cost is a big factor. By the time these would get to market they would need to be priced at +\- $2000 (that was 2 years ago probably more like 2500 these days) with no real benefit except for a 60% ish reduction in weight. I was looking at 7075 T651 which I believe is an appropriate material for the application.

2. Galling and stripping material out of the bores when pressing bushings in. The bushings are not super round and 7075 is not nearly as resilient against abrasion as steel. I didn’t do a full blown study, but It was enough to realize that it could be a long term problem.

If you make some, I’m sure they’ll sell. I wouldn’t bet the farm on it though. Can’t wait to see what ya come up with, thanks for the effort. I continue to be truly humbled by the amount of time and effort put into developing new products for these old rigs.

Oh yea... if you’re rocking a mill made somewhat recently, I would interpolate the holes and call it a day. The bushings are very forgiving, and TOP is not terribly important here (with respect to the general accuracy of a modern mill vs the application ).

 

[PIP]

Boy you have some free time. If you can make aluminum radius arms that compete with the current market arms then awesome. But at the end of the day. They don’t offer any benefit outside of a decrease in weight over the competition. But if you’re looking to do that, the best place to start looking to decrease weight is your roof, not the lowest thing on your 80.

Have you ever wondered why there aren’t aftermarket gas tank skids for 80s? No one has made them because the market isn’t asking for them, not because they’re a bad idea.

I am new to Land Cruisers, but i have earned a living making stuff for nearly 20 years. I understand and can see your point of view, however, you don't need a novel idea to profit.

Often a new widget is difficult for people to accept.

I've had just as much success taking an existing product and putting my twist on it as i have with stuff that I am sole source. And thing is, it doesn't usually hurt other vendors. Shoppers like seeing multiple sources for an item. It instills confidence that the problem is real. More products to choose from means more people buy into it. Competition is not bad for business.

I have found that good service and availability are often strong factors in a products success. I hate making stuff to order. I burned out on that long ago. I make a batch and if sales are good i make more to ensure stock is always ready to ship. If sales are poor i let it sell out and never make more.

 

[PIP]

I haven’t read the entire thread, but if it saves you any brain damage..... I ventured down this road pretty far. There were 2 main reasons for not pursuing it further.

1. Cost is a big factor. By the time these would get to market they would need to be priced at +\- $2000 (that was 2 years ago probably more like 2500 these days) with no real benefit except for a 60% ish reduction in weight. I was looking at 7075 T651 which I believe is an appropriate material for the application.

2. Galling and stripping material out of the bores when pressing bushings in. The bushings are not super round and 7075 is not nearly as resilient against abrasion as steel. I didn’t do a full blown study, but It was enough to realize that it could be a long term problem.

If you make some, I’m sure they’ll sell. I wouldn’t bet the farm on it though. Can’t wait to see what ya come up with, thanks for the effort. I continue to be truly humbled by the amount of time and effort put into developing new products for these old rigs.

Oh yea... if you’re rocking a mill made somewhat recently, I would interpolate the holes and call it a day. The bushings are very forgiving, and TOP is not terribly important here (with regards to the general accuracy of a modern mill).

Thanks for sharing!

I believe the plan to type 3 anodize will mitigate any galling issues. I have experienced similar issues in the past and steer away from selling bare aluminum parts. It only looks good for a short time if it is not coated or anodized.

Can i ask what factors drove your sale price estimate so high? Were you planning to process yourself or job out the machining?

 

[Squeegee]

I am new to Land Cruisers, but i have earned a living making stuff for nearly 20 years. I understand and can see your point of view, however, you don't need a novel idea to profit.

Often a new widget is difficult for people to accept.

I've had just as much success taking an existing product and putting my twist on it as i have with stuff that I am sole source. And thing is, it doesn't usually hurt other vendors. Shoppers like seeing multiple sources for an item. It instills confidence that the problem is real. More products to choose from means more people buy into it. Competition is not bad for business.

I have found that good service and availability are often strong factors in a products success. I hate making stuff to order. I burned out on that long ago. I make a batch and if sales are good i make more to ensure stock is always ready to ship. If sales are poor i let it sell out and never make more.

I hope this becomes a successful product. At the end of the day, the 80 market would benefit from a wider variety of vendors.

 

[use2bn83]

Thanks for sharing!

I believe the plan to type 3 anodize will mitigate any galling issues. I have experienced similar issues in the past and steer away from selling bare aluminum parts. It only looks good for a short time if it is not coated or anodized.

Can i ask what factors drove your sale price estimate so high? Were you planning to process yourself or job out the machining?

Material costs and payback period on the R&D etc. I had planned to powder coat these.

Ahh yes, a third concern was galvanic erosion..... road brine, carbon steel/al coupling etc.

 

[Tsvigo]

before this site were refreshed, there is a thread talking about the radius arms.
deltavs who is a vendor in here did say about something, he need the actual radius arm in order to make a pair.
i was on the list, but i couldnt take off mine yet. you can email @Delta VS