Which OME spings to use in BJ74? opinions wanted (1 Viewer)

[Hulsty]

I have a 86 BJ74 and am unhappy with the rear suspension. My current rear spring cannot handle the load/use of my car. I was finding while driving on the road or on bumpy tracks quickly the rear suspension would compress nearly to the bump stop causing the tyres to hit the outer guard lip even with the 1'' body lift. This is worst on the drivers side and only when running 35'' tyres. Current rear spings were bought second hand, but do not look that old no idea of their life before me. They are single stage 9 leaf EFS 50mm lift springs apparently rated to 300kg contant load in a 60 series. See this link http://www.efs4wd.com.au/Cataloguehtmlinfo/Toyota/25b.pdf

I am going to fit ARB OME Dakar rear leaf springs, but I have a few choices that I would like opinions on.

-CS017RA/B - Medium spring - 70 series listing - 50mm lift
-CS004RA/B - Heavy spring, Constant 200kg - 70 series listing - 75mm lift when load with 200kg, 6 leaves + 2 overload
-CS005RA/B - Heavy spring, Constant 200kg - 60 series listing - 75mm lift when load with 200kg, 7 leaves + 2 overload

When I spoke with ARB they said the 200kg is a standard car with 200kg in the back, be it gear or peope leaving 75mm lift loaded.

My car has no rear seats, instead a timber draw system, itself about 50kg empty on this is a 60L fridge which would be 50kg full, a steel rear bumper replacing the stock unit, about 30kg. I carry a 35'' beadlocked spare tyre and high lift jack on the rear door, 40kg. In the draw system are tools, oil, engine water, beer and food. Probably about 60kg worth when fully packed. Outside the draw system I carry 20L water 20kg, spare parts, about 30kg worth then my camping gear and clothing. All this weight is pretty much straight above or behind the rear axel. Then include two passengers at 200kg up front with some stuff.

Totaling: 50+50+30+40+60+20+30 = 280kg + camping gear (tent chair, clothes, utensiles) and passengers. This also excludes fuel which will be about 120kg.

Does anyone have any experience with the above springs and a loaded car? Just typing this thread out has made me think I should just go all the way too the CS005RA/B 60 series springs.

This is how it sits on 33''s without the rear draws and crap installed.

 

[bj70_guy]

Hulsty, I have the CS004RA/Bs in the rear of my 74. Here's how it looked with no bumpers or extra weight, other than a drawer set-up in the rear - maybe 80lbs or so? Not really sure...
Tires are 255/85R16s.

It has an ARB/8274 up front and 180lbs of rear bumper now and has come down a bit. I'll get a pic tomorrow for you - it's dark and raining here now (for a change...)

I don't think I got anywhere near 75mm lift out of them. My original Aussie-made Emus (in my old 70) were only mediums and they had a fair bit more lift than the Dakars - even now the 70 with 10 year old medium Emus and 28" tires stands about the same height as my 74 with heavy Dakars and 33s.

The ride is nice with the bumper/drawer in the rear, I must say.
FWIW my fronts are CS006Fs with an extra leaf in each pack.

 

[bj70_guy]

BTW, take a look at Aaron's new thread - I bet he has the same Dakars as me:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/70-series-tech/355567-some-35s-bj74.html

 

[FJ70]

No worries mate, I will try my best to explain here.

There is no part numbers on my invoice for them but I remember going through all the questions with them about how I would use it. I just counted the leaves in the rear and there are 8 in total. They are 50mm lift, 60 Series. I specified no weight in the back except when camping which wouldn't amount to much anyway.

They don't flex that well, but they are heavy duty and I got the slightly stiffer shocks to suit. So off road it is picking a wheel off the ground a lot of the time. I have 33'' tires and the drivers side has rubbed on the inner guard so there is still a bit if flex but more would be great.

I have had trailers on the back of it, once with about 1100kg of pavers and the rear doesn't sag. I guess the tow ball load wasn't that high but even trying to jump on the back, it is very stiff.

I hope this helps out.

Cheers Brad.

 

[crushers]

first, if your tires are rubbing on the body then drop your bump stops a bit. i usually install the lift i want. jack that tire up full compression till it is clear of the body by 1/2". crawl under and measure the distance from the frame to the steel part on the axle and modify the bump stop to fit. allow a 1/2" for rubber compression.
i like a firm but not harsh ride so if i have to sacrifice a small amount of travel then so be it.

you could install stiffer springs or go with a taller lift but stiffer equates to rougher ride, that gets old fast.
taller raises the COG which (since it seems yours is a bit of an adventure vehicle) is unhealthy when traversing the terrain. side hilling becomes a lot more nerving, steep inclines and declines can get a bit hairy so i like low and stable.

another option would be airbag assist for when loaded down.

of course the old use of an add-a-leaf also works quite well in this situation.

not sure if this is the kind of response you were looking for or not.

 

[prado t]

BTW, take a look at Aaron's new thread - I bet he has the same Dakars as me:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/70-series-tech/355567-some-35s-bj74.html

No, I wish I had the OMEs, I have a Zeal/Keep Slant combo F/R. I never changed the springs over , still has the ones from Japan. Nice sliders!

Hulsty I would go with bj70_guy leafs the CS004A/B if you decide OME

 

[bj70_guy]

No, I wish I had the OMEs, I have a Zeal/Keep Slant combo F/R. I never changed the springs over , still has the ones from Japan. Nice sliders!

Hulsty I would go with bj70_guy leafs the CS004A/B if you decide OME

Oops, I thought you had the Emus...
If you're interested I'm going to move my old Aussie Emus from the 70 to the 74, and sell my new Dakars.

Jason (Cruisin' on mud) made the sliders, he recently finished up this bumper for me too. His work is awesome!

 

[bj70_guy]

Hey Aaron, you might be interested in a set of these U bolt flip kits. Greg's had them on his 74 for quite a while. I've got a set I was going to put on my 70, but I'm going to put them on the 74 instead.

Man-A-Fre Advance Off-Road Solutions

Sorry for the hijack Hulsty...

 

[roscoFJ73]

Ive had the Dobinsons in my 73 series for about 5 years now,never came close to scraping with the 33 BFGs.
When I have had it loaded up ,I did not noticable any discernable sag.
Still sits level as the day they were installled.

 

[jericho]

I went the CS004's. My reasons: i was not sure how much i was going to tote around, and like you wanted to find a spring rate with some good movement and the ability to haul some weight. When i installed the CS004's, I pulled the third leaf form the top (according to Kurt @ Cruiser Outfitters, this gives it the same rate as the CS017's).

I've been happy with it! I'm not hauling as much as you are, maybe half, but it did well loaded. I would recommend the CS004's for you, but i believe the only difference in the 04 and 05 are an OME add-a-leaf... so if you by the 04's and don't like it, you can add leaf.

On a side note I agree with Crushers on the air bags. Get the leafs the way you want them for wheeling, and the air bags for hauling your gear around! Endless possibilities!

 

[prado t]

You have lots to choose from Dobinson, OME , Keep/Slant . I would go with Dobinson

 

[Hulsty]

Thanks bj70_guy, any chance of recent side profile pics with the extra weight in it now, nice looking rig.

Crushers, I realise those points regarding lowering the bump stops. In the last car I didnt have to do this because the only way the tyre would lift high enough to get into that area was on articulation, which had the tyre tucking up in the guard. In this car the rear springs cant cope, they allow roughly 6'' total axel compression while driving on the road at 100km/h which I view as unacceptable. If I did lower the bumpstops I would hit them ALL the time.

I would prefer a slightly firm ride to cope with the loads when I go offroad. I always carry the draw system, spares and recovery gear in the car. I think moving to the OME springs will lift my car 1''-1.5'' when loaded, maybe less which I dont see as much of an issue when taking into account COG etc. The diffs on my car are also 70mm wider than stock to help offset the lift etc.

Rosco, I do like the Dobinsons I think my front springs are Dobinsons and have had a hard life and are still ok. I will have to check the pricing, my prefernce is the Dakars, ARB head office is 2mins from my house and pricing should be good.

On a side note I am going to sell my long range tank, sticking with the stocker and two jerry cans for this trip.

Anyone else with pics/comments on the CS004's appreciated.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Rosco, I do like the Dobinsons I think my front springs are Dobinsons and have had a hard life and are still ok. I will have to check the pricing, my prefernce is the Dakars, ARB head office is 2mins from my house and pricing should be good.

On a side note I am going to sell my long range tank, sticking with the stocker and two jerry cans for this trip.

Anyone else with pics/comments on the CS004's appreciated.

See if you can find out who makes the Dakars now.They used to be Beltons,but I think they have changed.If you know who makes them ,you maybe able to get some without going through ARB and save some $$$.

I paid $500 for dobinsons on the front ,including fitting, in Perth when things were quiet last year

Does the tank hang too low for your driving? I wish I was close,that would work as my rear tank in the 75
What type is it?

 

[Hulsty]

It does hang down abit lower, would suit a tourer more than what I do. I have photos installed in a 73. I've had a 3mm plate welded across the bottom to make it stronger. Got it home and found some pin holes though so I'm fixing them and getting rid of it. 140-150L capacity.

 

[bj70_guy]

Thanks bj70_guy, any chance of recent side profile pics with the extra weight in it now, nice looking rig.

The 8274 isn't installed right now, but this should give you an idea of how the rear end sits:

 

[crushers]

humm, how you want your truck is completely a personal decision and i respect that.
this post is just to bring to light the travel.
a stock setup has roughly 2" of travel before bottoming out. you say you have 6" of travel on the highway.
now lets take a further look at this. going down the road to have those stock springs bottom out you need to have a reason for 2" of travel such as a rock, stick, uneven pavement or a washout pothole. to get that same situation for 6" of travel you will need a huge situation to bottom out. 6" on the road is catstrostophic to a normal vehicle.
now we look at cornering, 2" of travel to the bump stops prevents excessive rolling when cornering, once the 2" of travel is used up then the suspension becomes "solid" as the rubber becomes the fixed point between the frame and the axle housing.
with 6" of travel then the truck has to lean 6" before this occures. 6" is a huge angle before "solidification" occures and the potential for a roll or flip becomes a true reality. think of a boat rocking away down the road. if you ever add to the COG you will be driving a time bomb (of course this becomes redundant if the drier compansates for the action)(and it becomes even more apparent should a quick manover be required to prevent hitting an obstavcle on the road at highway speeds)

just remember, i am not judging what you decide to do. it is your truck and your responsibility. not mine.

a firm ride is fine but then RS9000 set at firm settings can make a huge difference to the speed the spring compresses on the highway reducing the chance for unpredictable swaying.

 

[boogie74]

Hey Hulsty,

Do you have a link to a pic of how the fuel tank fits under the 73 or the 74. I'm looking for one and mine is more of a tourer than a full on hard core 4wd. Be good to see how it fits under the truck with the exhaust.

Cheers.

 

[Hulsty]

Crushers, they are all good points, what I am hoping to achieve is roughly the same ride height but with springs that are stiffer and dont compress those few inches to the guards when cornering, even going over small bumps offroad at ~30km/h the tyres were hitting.

The effect of my cornering and hitting the bumpstop is not good and causes are large change in instantaneous COG, a good spring and shock will aleviate this.

I will measure actual bump stop clearance later, as when cornering the axel doesnt come up completely square.

 

[Hulsty]

Got the ruler out and measure the clearances with 33''s on, rear draws (empty) and fride (empty). 110mm bump stop clearance, 150mm tyre to guard lip clearance. With my 35''s on and and camping gear in I would expect to lose ~25mm bump stop clearance.

 

[crushers]

that is roughly 4" of travel, nice (in my mind anyway).
i would suggest trying the RS9000 shocks, i have had excellent results with these shocks and cornering and bottoming out resistance while still allowing for good off road travel.

of course a new set of spring will work as well.

side note:
i have found all after market spring kits have shocks that are too short for the application. shocks should never be the downward travel limiters.
so
even if you do go with new RS9000 and end up still wanting the new spring kits, you can order just the springs and reuse the RS9000. with 5 settings these shocks can be dialed in to exactly the results you want.

cheers