When do you make the jump from all terrains to mud terrains? (1 Viewer)

[TheElegantFox]

A few years ago, I had a shop replace the worn off brand 31" tires with Goodyear Trailrunner ATs 31"x10.5x15 (NTB - Tires & Routine Auto Maintenance - https://www.ntb.com/sku/sku5580492/wrangler-trailrunner-at) on the OEM rims. I feel like I've easily exceeded their grip limits in a myriad of conditions, rock gardens, mud, sand (no snow though). I think part of it is experience related, knowing how much to air down, proper break over techniques, trail lines, and all. However, I've had the truck in mortal peril twice on these tires offroad and while I'm happy to read up on trail driving and learn more, I've been considering moving to mud terrains and sacrificing on road comfort for offroad performance since I really put the truck through it's paces offroad very regularly. Having an open rear diff and a partially functioning transfer case (now fixed) definitely didn't add much to the traction equation. I'm not expecting anything magic that'll make up for lack of skill, but I would like a little bit more offroad traction than I currently have.

• These BFGs seem to the the class leaders: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=Mud-Terrain+T/A+KM3&partnum=105QR5KM3&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

• Most Jeeps and offroad package trucks seem to be running these Goodyear Duratracs: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...R5WDTOWL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

• Also considering the Mickey Thompson Bajas

The Goodyear Trailrunner ATs are a good hybrid on road/fire road tire and mine have plenty of life left, but I just don't have confidence in their performance anymore for my use cases. I did pick up a dial gauge air release and a Milwaukee tire inflator for getting the correct tire pressures for offroading.

When did y'all switch over to mud terrains? Was it worth the decreased on road performance? Would I be better served with a higher end all terrain like the BFG KO2s?

 

[sedonut]

It's a personal choice. Bigger tires with a more aggressive tread will be louder and lower your MPG.

I think you will find mud terrains the loudest.

I think the main factor is how you use your vehicle the majority of the time and under what conditions.

 

[Thechief86]

I ran AT's on stuff that was going to see maybe 10% off road use, and anything that will see more than that gets mud tires.
I plan to wheel my 60 quite a bit, or at least use it to get to remote campsites just about every time I'll be driving it. My Subaru on AT's will be the commuter, and it will still also see some off pavement fun.
The Cruiser will occasionally be driven 1500-2000 miles to a cool place to camp and wheel, but I'd still rather have more aggressive tires on it.
The Cruiser has a small lift and will soon get lockers as well. I recommend having a beater to commute in, and a Cruiser for the fun stuff.

My Subaru has Yokohama Geolandar GO15's. 225/70/16
My FJ60 has General Grabber X3 Red Labels.
33x10.50x15
Both are very impressive on all surfaces so far, although I haven't tried the Grabbers in snow yet.

 

[TheElegantFox]

It's a personal choice. Bigger tires with a more aggressive tread will be louder and lower your MPG.

I think you will find mud terrains the loudest.

I think the main factor is how you use your vehicle the majority of the time and under what conditions.

Yeah, I don't think I'd jump up to 33"s or higher since this is a stock truck and I don't want to regear at the moment. Deeper tire grooves on the same size might be good. I WFH now, so I don't really need to make day to day comfort as big of a priority plus the truck is sans carpet at the moment and already loud.

Main thing I'd want to avoid would be picking out a too extreme set of mud terrains that make the truck unsafe on pavement.

 

[Thechief86]

You can do some pretty gnarly stuff on small All-Terrains with some finesse. My Subaru completed the Alpine Loop in Southern Colorado, and wheeled in Moab, all on a 5k mile road trip with my 5 year old last year. Unless you spend a lot of time in the mud, a rear lunchbox locker will do as much or more for you than more aggressive tires in many cases.

 

[TheElegantFox]

You can do some pretty gnarly stuff on small All-Terrains with some finesse. My Subaru completed the Alpine Loop in Southern Colorado, and wheeled in Moab, all on a 5k mile road trip with my 5 year old last year. Unless you spend a lot of time in the mud, a rear lunchbox locker will do as much or more for you than more aggressive tires in many cases.View attachment 3059891

Yeah, I'm really wishing I had known how much I'd need a rear locker before I had the rearend rebuilt. The open diff really shows it's limits in the sand at OBX.

 

[Thechief86]

Yeah, I'm really wishing I had known how much I'd need a rear locker before I had the rearend rebuilt. The open diff really shows it's limits in the sand at OBX.

Order an Aussie or Spartan or Lock Right and DIY!
You can install it in an afternoon, and it will outlast your next set of tires.

 

[TheElegantFox]

Order an Aussie or Spartan or Lock Right and DIY!
You can install it in an afternoon, and it will outlast your next set of tires.

Was just looking into this and it's a lot cheaper than I thought once you're not looking at air or e-lockers.

 

[Roonie]

I have the duratracks on my truck currently as it came with it. They were really good early on. Quiet and great traction. They got really really loud around 20k miles in. So loud I have seriously considered replacing them even though I have 50% tread left or more. My frugality has prevented me so far and I have about 36k miles on them. It bothers me everytime I drive on the freeway with them as they are loud! Great traction though and good in the snow.

I have AT Toyo open country 3 on my fj62 and love them and also have great traction. Way better in the snow then the duratracs. The duratracs will start to slide and spin. The Toyos don't even budge on same hill. Also these are very quiet...... night and day difference over the duratracs.

 

[riderjgs]

BFG ATs have been my go to tire for years on many different vehicles. Much more open and aggressive (for an AT) tread than most of the newer designs and wear well. General AT3s mimic the BFGs and have much the same qualities. Ran them on one truck and would do so again...they're usually a little cheaper. Oddball recommendation is the Kumho Road Venture, which I've run on both my old F350 ranch truck and my son's '99 Explorer. I'd describe them as in between an AT and MT. Quiet and deep tread but sizes are more limited. Ran one set of BFG MTs and won't go back. Great tire for what they're designed for but noisy and wear quickly and pretty miserable in snow and ice unless you have them siped.

 

[TheElegantFox]

Those AT Toyos and AT BFGs might be a better fit for me plus a diff locker. A more aggressive AT is probably the right call here, judging from the MT insights posted.

 

[onemanarmy]

You don't need MTs for sand. Low tire pressure and flotation is key. Even slick tires can be fine in sand with proper air pressure and avoiding deep ruts and flooring it from a standstill.

 

[doug720]

I had BFG AT's old style, switched to BFG MT's and did not care for them, and switched to BFG AT's new style.

The MT were loud, wore quickly, and most importantly for me, sucked on snow and icy roads, and dug in soft sand. But great in mud and good on rocky terrain

The new AT's are quiet, wear slowly and work well in snow and ice. They can fill with mud, but seem to clear quickly. Best for my use.

A simple mans experiance.

 

[gnob]

Give the cooper stt pros a look.
You couldn't pay me to run bfg or gy tires.

 

[dbleon]

I’m looking at the yoko geolander mt for my next set. I’ve heard they’re fairly quiet

 

[HemiAlex]

I really like my 255 BFG KM3. A little louder than K02 and true to size. 255/85r16 comes out to 33.3” at 45psi. I locked my self into MT’s with the 255 size. There are a ton of 32” options in 235/85r16 in AT and MT.

My last 33x10.5r15 K02 were 31.25” at 35psi. And they cracked in the tread. Never again.

I’ve wheeled the KM3 for 25+ days at 15psi and put 25,000 miles on them. They’re almost half way done. I did snow, mud and all sorts of trails. I like them. Much quieter than the Toyo and yokohama MT offerings.

 

[Thechief86]

Give the cooper stt pros a look.
You couldn't pay me to run bfg or gy tires.

I used to run the old STT's on everything, and loved them, but they're not available in the 33x10.5 size I was after this time around. Maybe I'll get some when I go to 35's...

 

[klinetime574]

I ran 33 inch BFG A/T KO’s from when I first installed my lift in 2007 up until they were needing replacement. Got a set of used KM2’s in 2012 or so. Back with KO2’s now, installed early 2019. I’ve had a Lock-Right in the rear axle pretty much the whole time. There may be a few cases where the KM2 may have helped, but honestly can’t remember a particular one. The All Terrain is quieter, looks good, wears better. Did SAS5 with the KO2’s, zero issues.

tl;dr = lock your rear axle

HTH

 

[toy_tek]

I also went from KO's (3 sets) to KM2 (2 sets) back to KO2 (2 sets). I was really disappointed in the KM2 wear, which unsurprisingly resulted in a lot balance issues as well. I only got the second set because of the size (255/85/16). Much happier with 235/85/16 KO2, works well for everything from Colorado to Baja.

Edit... I realized the above info was related to my 97 4Runner which I owned for 20 years. I have 31/10.50/15 KO2's on my FJ62 right now. I like them, however I'm considering at some point moving to 16" wheel and the 235/85/16 I used on the 4Runner. Really love that size. This would definitely be KO2.

Tim Huber did a video recently on the KM3 and concluded the K02 was most likely a better all-around choice.

As far as sand, low PSI (5-12) and no locker is the key. Locker will dig faster.

 

[TheElegantFox]

Is there a large performance benefit to 31s over the factory 235/75-15 sizing? I know on road is better with the smaller wheels, but maybe air down performance off road suffers? They make KO2s in both sizes.