What am I doing wrong...

[mercfan]

I should be posting this on weldingweb.com, but I think that site has been down for some time. Anyway, I'm a noob welder. Recently I purchased Linconl 220/125 AC/DC welder box (220V).

I've been practicing running some beads and I can tell when I'm getting a good bead because the slag just peels off on its own. So I've gotten somewhat proficient in running straight beads on flat steel.

With my newly found confidence, I proceeded to trying to stitch two pieces of steel together. My goal is to make my own sliders so I've laid out some pieces of flat steel (3/16th) and a piece of square tube (1/8 thick wall ) at 90deg to each other, then a gusset on top (same 3/16'')... started with the same technique as before and the welds came out horribly bad... I'm ashamed to even show it here.

I was using about 90-120A DC+ setting with a 6013 1/8'' Century electrode. Horrible, I tell ya...

I've played with different current settings... still bad. When welding the 90 deg angles (gusset to the square pipe) it seemed that the metal was sticking to either side of the material but the middle was like a trough full of slag - no way it will hold well. Too much current or wrong electrode?!

At the end, I've tried a different electrode - 6013 5/32'' - which is much thicker and I think it was starting to look better but it was quitting time due to family committments.

Any clues would be appreciated on how to make adjustments to make this look better.

Thanks,
James

 

['74 UA FJ]

Buy a mig welder.

 

[mercfan]

Smart &ss...

I will just as soon as you float me $800...

 

[RHINO]

sounds like your amp setting is too low or your arc is too big, you can almost drag 6013 accross the surface, very short arc.
keep in mind 6013 is a low penetrating rod and 3/16th is typically max recommended and not ideal. i prefer 7018 rod for all position general steel welding.

 

[Pin_Head]

sounds like your amp setting is too low or your arc is too big, you can almost drag 6013 accross the surface, very short arc.
keep in mind 6013 is a low penetrating rod and 3/16th is typically max recommended and not ideal. i prefer 7018 rod for all position general steel welding.

x2
It takes practice. You want to practice this type of fillet weld and then test them by bending it over 90 degrees to be sure that you have fusion all the way to the root. Once you have it down, then you can do the sliders.

You may be running too cool and/or too fast or wrong rod angle. You need to be able to see the difference between the weld metal and the slag to tell when you have good fusion. 1/8 inch rod is a little large to be welding 1/8" metal. 3/32 would be better.

7018 would be a better rod all around. 6010 or 6011 would be good too.

Just remember, you could be making bad welds with a MIG welder too, but it just wouldn't be as obvious.

 

[mercfan]

Thx guys - sounds like I need to pump up my AMPs and use a different electrode.

I have a box of 7018 1/8'' electrodes... I wish they were 3/32nd instead of 1/8'' though. I also have 6011 1/8'' as well... hmmm.

I'll keep trying.

 

[therrera]

Hi Mercfan,

I have been welding for over 30 years, all metals, all position, etc. etc. I think 6013 is a difficult rod to master and the only way I have good luck with it is to crank up the amperage high. The slag with this rod gets in the way of the puddle and that's why higher amperage pushes the slag out of the way and lets you get a nice bead in. When it runs good, it leaves a beautiful bead, the slag gets in the way of you seeing the puddle and determining when it's fusing both sides of a weld.

My favorite all around rod is the 6011. Pick up some 1/8" 6011 at a Home Depot and run it instead and you'll be surprised at the difference. Plus 6011 is a "fast freeze" rod (meaning that it lets you "whip" in and out of the puddle so that the metal "freezes" solid in a blink of the eye allowing you to handle the heat being put into the metal and avoid burn through, etc.) which lets you handle misfitted parts with ease compared to other rods. It doesn't leave a nice smooth bead like the 6013 or 7018 but it is a deep penetrating rod that will insure you get that metal where you want to.

Plus the 6011 (or it's cousin the 6010) can dig through grease, oil, dirt and rust and give you a good weld where others may fail.

It sounds like your are on your way as you are getting the drift that practice makes perfect. The more you practice in a wider array of situations (uneven or poor fit up, large gaps, horizontal and overhead, light metal joined to heavy metal, ect.) the easier you will master how to do it. It's all aobut our brain coordinating with our eyes and hands to accomplish a task. Once you start "feeling" the puddle and the way the molten metal behaves, you'll start mastering that process.

One last thought: teach yourself to really LOOK at the puddle while your're laying down your bead. Notice its shape, how it behaves when welding on an edge of a joint versus in the middle of a plate, notice that the arc is not just a bright light that leaves metal behind it, but that inside the arc there are a lot of things going on. When you train your eye to notice the subtle differences in how the puddle behaves (a hot setting versus a cool one for example), then you have the fundamentals for all other forms of welding (MIG, TIG, GAS, welding, cutting, etc.).

Good luck and don't despair. Change out the rod and consider that one of your first major lessones in welding. Each rod has it's place, like a tool.

Tony

 

[Brasco20]

If you want your beads to look clean, use 7018. If your not too worried about the look, then use 6011. I like 7018 better, looks cleaner, and when you lay down a good bead, the slag comes off in one piece, you dont have to beat on it for 5 min, except for the root pass. I can never get the slag to chip off clean on the root pass. Most guys feel that stick is inferior to mig, i disagree. It just takes a bit more skill/practice to use stick.

 

[mercfan]

One last thought: teach yourself to really LOOK at the puddle while your're laying down your bead. Notice its shape, how it behaves when welding on an edge of a joint versus in the middle of a plate, notice that the arc is not just a bright light that leaves metal behind it, but that inside the arc there are a lot of things going on. When you train your eye to notice the subtle differences in how the puddle behaves (a hot setting versus a cool one for example), then you have the fundamentals for all other forms of welding (MIG, TIG, GAS, welding, cutting, etc.).

Thanks Tony - good stuff. I have some 6011 1/8'' that I'm going to try along with the 7018. I'll pump up the amps too and keep going. I like your explanation above of what to look for - that helps a lot. Being new to this there is so much that I have to keep track of that looking closely at the puddle is something that I need to focus more on. Right now I'm just too focused on keeping my hands moving in the right direction, maintaining the proper distance and arc, looking for the edge of the metal, etc. It's tricky and challenging but I find it rewarding and like practicing with different things. Thx again everybody.

 

[1r78]

I'm not exactly sure of the humidity in Denver, but keep in mind that if the rods are not kept dry, then the flux around the rod can absorb moisture making for some annoying problems. If your rods are old, go buy new ones and then see if that helps at all.

 

[neufab]

6013 is best used with ac 90-120 amps.switch to ac and try agian

 

[mercfan]

6013 is best used with ac 90-120 amps.switch to ac and try agian

Interresting... - will do.

UPDATE: I just tried the above suggestion: used 6013 with AC setting and I also increased my current to 120A - I got much, much better results. Wow... what a difference.

I also tried 6011 with higher current and also got much better results than before.

Finally, I joined two square tubes together (butt join, I think) using 7018 that laid a nice bead as well.

Thx - I'll try to post some photos eventually.

 

[Pin_Head]

I don't think that AC would offer any particular advantage in this situation, unless you were having a problem with arc blow. Switch it to DCRP and break the knob off.

 

[mercfan]

Here are some phots - again, they aren't great welds, but believe me they are much better than the fist set (which I dare not photograph):

Here is the quare tube done with 7018 and about 105A DC:

Here is one I did with two different electrodes:

Here is one I did with the 6013 AC (after having a horrible time with DC). It's not a great bead overall because I think I missed the first time and went over it the second time, but I can't help but be happy about the right side of it - still not sure how I was able to finish that bead off so smoothly - was never able to repeat that:

Pin_Head - I have to say that once I switched to AC for 6013 electrode I saw significant improvement in the results. If I had to pick one electrode right now, I would have to pic the 6013 and put the selector on AC - at least for what I'm doing now.

Still don't know how to finish the beads off properly so I don't end up with a hole at the end. Any tips or constructive critique of the above would be welcome.

 

[liljlandon]

I was taught to whip the rod back into the pool in the direction of the weld when your finished then pull off, Quickly.

It looks like the holes in the weld could be caused by foreign mater, like slag, in the weld that prevents the weld from flowing there.

helping the government read my mind on a daily basis

 

[mercfan]

I was taught to whip the rod back into the pool in the direction of the weld...

Having trouble visualizing how this would work... got any more on that?

 

[Dirtsquirt]

pic

do you have a pic of the welder.

could you have the welding leads plugged in wrong

7018 dc should weld a treat. Check polarity.

 

[neufab]

try to watch the puddle and not the bright light.pause at the end of weld and then pull off.it is very important to relax wile welding,practice is the best way to improve your skills we all started out like you.ive been welding 25 years and some days i just have to walk away and come back later .

 

[mercfan]

some days i just have to walk away and come back later .

Today was frustrating... I've put together a new fresh assembly and got ready. I tried 7018 first, then 6011, then 6013 - I tried various settings with them (AC, DC+, DC-) and various amp levels and they all looked like sh&t.... I feel like I'm not improving at all - even with all the good tips I'm getting - I got frustrated and walked away (mad).

 

[neufab]

dont be frustrated or mad.just walk away for awhile.hey i bet you learned that 6011 and 7018 dont work so well on ac do they,6013is made for ac 6011 and 7018 are not. post photos of all your welds in question ie crappy looking,maybe someone who had welds that look like yours will see them and tell you how they got better.everyone is different on how they learn,but with pics we can get an idea of what you r doing or not doing.just practice and relax try to lean on something or prop your arm some how,maybe hold stinger with one hand and rest eletrode on other.if your body is stiff youll weld like crap everytime.when you walkaway maybe watch some viedos on welding. try weldingtipsandtricks.com this guy has good pointers on all types of welding.just dont give up practice!