myquestoyota
SILVER Star
WELDERS....what does it take to weld a MT family kit?
- Thread starter alex e
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Just go buy a miller welder 211mvp for 1000 dollars and do it yourself. It's not that hard. I guess a MT cage is already cut to length and notching is not that big a deal. You can use a grinder for that. Wire feed welding is really simple just practice alittle and you will get it. The welds that you do can be cleaned up with a grinder also trust me you will get it plus with the money you save you get a new tool out of it
gee i even get hell for offering to help someone???? well i hope one day some one on here needs help and i am at the right place at the right time to say Fxxx OFF
You must have been extremely lucky. I've never seen a 110V mig machine rated to do 1/4" in a single pass.
Basically, you very well CAN weld a .120 wall cage with a 110V unit using the steps others have mentioned, but I would never(nor would I pay someone a red cent to) use a 110V machine to do it. Most guys who say they have done this or that effectively using a 110V unit more than likely do not own a 220V machine.
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myquestoyota
SILVER Star
It wasn't that, relax. I don't think the poster was referring to you when he complained about being overcharged for welding. Heck, you wished you could help him for free. I know sitting around is hard on the psyche but don't take it all personal. Hope you get some relief.
1973Guppie
Supporting Vendor
hey girls, stop your pissing and moaning.....
don't get a 110, been there done that, go to a 220 mig and you can weld anything up to 1/4, I have even done 1/2 for non load bearing parts such as diff cover protection.....
no way you are getting full penetration on 1/4 thick unless you are bevelling the s*** out of it and making lots and lots of passes, which is just not ideal.
don't get a 110, been there done that, go to a 220 mig and you can weld anything up to 1/4, I have even done 1/2 for non load bearing parts such as diff cover protection.....
no way you are getting full penetration on 1/4 thick unless you are bevelling the s*** out of it and making lots and lots of passes, which is just not ideal.
No Ken, I was saying "Road Trip" in response to your offer. I've admired your truck, and I'm sure you'd do a good job. Probably better than many of the professionals who just don't give a crap about the quality of their work... (like the a__hole at the transmission shop who used an oxyacetylene torch to modify one of my hand fabricated transmission mounts... and then left it that way (PM me if you want to know where they work)) These days paying, even through the nose, doesn't guarantee anything.
The "Paying someone" was more in response to finding someone you don't know on craigslist who'll do it dirt cheap.
I drive like a granny, so I'd likely just do it myself, if I was ever to replace my family cage... Or come see you Ken.
Sell the cage kit you have and buy a pre-welded one from MetalTech. Bet you come out cheaper than paying someone locally to weld what you have.
- Thread starter
- #49
I would love to get a 220V welder though and learn. We also have a buzz box at the farm metal shop. It could be a cool project for me and my father inlaw to tackle together as he gave me the 40, originally after we hunted from it for a decade. He is unbelievably precise when it comes to metalwork and such. I'm sure we might NEED a nice MIG for the shop were that to occur! I'm not into the cheapest, but rather not spending more than a prebuilt MT plus shipping.
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myquestoyota
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #52
All I have to do is the notching, and tacking to get it in. Seriously why NOT get a Miller 211 and get a tool I have always wanted out of it?
http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/servlet/the-2909/MILLERMATIC-211/Detail
http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/servlet/the-2909/MILLERMATIC-211/Detail
So I just called Metaltech. Good guy there. These numbers only apply to me in Seattle, but here's how it works out:
Shipping for a kit: about $120
Shipping for a pre-built cage: $250-300
I've run all of the numbers for myself for a jackson cage, comparing three options:
Just thought I'd throw this out there. If my fact pattern holds true for the OP's situation, he should definitely just have a local shop do everything for him, as expensive as that might seem.
Shipping for a kit: about $120
Shipping for a pre-built cage: $250-300
I've run all of the numbers for myself for a jackson cage, comparing three options:
- Driving the 40 down to portland and having MT do the install from beginning to end.
- Driving a truck with a Uhaul trailer down to Portland, picking up a pre-built cage, bringing it back, and having a local welder do my frame tie-ins.
- Buying the kit and having a local shop do everything.
Just thought I'd throw this out there. If my fact pattern holds true for the OP's situation, he should definitely just have a local shop do everything for him, as expensive as that might seem.
why not. i bet you will get many uses out of it to jutified buying it
C'mon, drive to Portland and get it. Stop by Chehalis and I'll buy you a
Thanks for the offer! I do have some friends down in portland, so despite my cost/benefit analysis, it might be worth it. In which case, you'll be beering me!
bobm
WTF, WTF, WTF!!!!
Alex, the Miller 211 with auto-set is a great machine. Runs on 220 or 110 with the mvp plug also welds up to 3,8" in a single pass and welds up to 3/8" aluminum in a single pass with the optional spoolgun. The machine with spoolgun is around $1100.00. This is one tool in your garage that will get more use than anything. You will be looking for things to weld. I do reccomend taking a welding class, maybe at a local vocational school at night would be less expensive than community college. Been welding and working in sheet-metal for 35+ years any questions PM me.
Thanks Bob.
- Thread starter
- #57
Thanks Bob I'm def looking into Ken's suggestion of the 211 MVP and lessons. We have some guys down at the farm who can weld their butts off. I also have a guy here who has offered to give me lessons. Personally I like classes. If there's an excuse for another tool, you can bet I'm down. With the boy coming in 2013 I probably will have a harder time getting to go hunt as much.
Alex e,
I did mine by myself with my Miller 180 auto mig with no problem. You will be better doing it yourself because as already said, there are many ways and locations to place the pieces and you can tack it all togather and cut it apart and move some pieces if you need to. Don't get in a hurry and think about what u are doing. If you buy the Harbor freight tubing notcher, put it in a vice you will be able to notch the tube perfectly with some practice. U can use some PVC pieces the same size as the tubing to practice the angle of the notches if you want. That is a lot cheaper in the long run. One tip is when u have the pieces cut and happy with the fit up, use the 120 grit flapper wheels on a grinder to carefully remove the clear coating on the tubing only in the weld areas. Also don't forget to clean the tubing with brake clean or other solvents to remove any oils so not to contaminate the weld. When U are finished U will be much happier with the product. "U can do it"
I did mine by myself with my Miller 180 auto mig with no problem. You will be better doing it yourself because as already said, there are many ways and locations to place the pieces and you can tack it all togather and cut it apart and move some pieces if you need to. Don't get in a hurry and think about what u are doing. If you buy the Harbor freight tubing notcher, put it in a vice you will be able to notch the tube perfectly with some practice. U can use some PVC pieces the same size as the tubing to practice the angle of the notches if you want. That is a lot cheaper in the long run. One tip is when u have the pieces cut and happy with the fit up, use the 120 grit flapper wheels on a grinder to carefully remove the clear coating on the tubing only in the weld areas. Also don't forget to clean the tubing with brake clean or other solvents to remove any oils so not to contaminate the weld. When U are finished U will be much happier with the product. "U can do it"
If you buy a welder and take classes or get training of some sort that's fine , if nothing else the first project out the door is building a cart for your new toy . Don't forget hidden costs -
Mix gas - 75/25 $$ depending upon where you live - also tank rental .
Wire - don't buy the small spools , waste of money unless you are changing alloys all the time .
Contact tips , ect . Once you get some practice those costs will go down if you are careful . Migs do cost money to run and keep in mind that any type of welder using gas will cost more per job if you are doing a lot of tacking/fit-up work .
$1100 for the newer-gen Millers is a steal , my power unit alone was $3500 with nothing else .
Sarge
Mix gas - 75/25 $$ depending upon where you live - also tank rental .
Wire - don't buy the small spools , waste of money unless you are changing alloys all the time .
Contact tips , ect . Once you get some practice those costs will go down if you are careful . Migs do cost money to run and keep in mind that any type of welder using gas will cost more per job if you are doing a lot of tacking/fit-up work .
$1100 for the newer-gen Millers is a steal , my power unit alone was $3500 with nothing else .
Sarge
Although .120 wall tube can be done with 120v welder, it is at the top end of it's capability for an experienced fabricator. Step up and get the 220v, it will be money well spent.
As far as welding up a cage, it is one of the most difficult projects an amateur can do. Welding a cage properly starts with proper fit up, that means notching with NO gaps. You are not welding horizontally on a table, you will be welding out of position, up, down, sometimes upside down. Also, since you are welding round tube, your torch angle is constantly changing as you go around the joint. You also transition from a lap weld to a tee weld as you go around. This obviously should not be your first welding project.
One common mistake I have seen is when using hole saw notchers is not properly finish grinding the cope. Some people leave the "flash" on the end of the tube and try to weld the thin material left at the longest points of the notch instead of grinding it back to the full thickness of the tube. This makes for a scary joint.
A great way to practice and test your welding skill is to buy some 1.5" x .25" strap steel and cut it into 4" pieces. Overlap two pieces and do a lap weld across one side. Put it in a vice, grab a hammer, and try to break them apart. If the weld fails, you need to keep practicing. If the material fails, the weld is good. You will find that even some of the prettiest welds will fail. Beginners tend to use too low of a setting, causing poor penetration, even if the weld is pretty looking. I once broke a front spring hanger off of a SAS'ed Toyota with a pry bar that had been welded by a "fabricator". The welds were pretty, but had no penetration. The customer happened to be standing there. Needless to say his jaw hit the floor.
All of you who are saying how easy it is to weld a cage, especially those using 120v welders, try this little exercise. take two pieces of tube, do a 90* notch on one piece, then weld a tee shape 1/4 of the way around, half lap, half tee. put it in a vice, and break it apart. What failed, the tube or the weld?
Post up your results!
P.S. One thing I do not like about the Metal Tech cage is the small brace from the main hoop to the halo. It is too close to the occupants heads, and could cause a serious head injury in a hard roll or even a violent accident. I would make it much smaller, or just use a triangular gusset in it's place.
As far as welding up a cage, it is one of the most difficult projects an amateur can do. Welding a cage properly starts with proper fit up, that means notching with NO gaps. You are not welding horizontally on a table, you will be welding out of position, up, down, sometimes upside down. Also, since you are welding round tube, your torch angle is constantly changing as you go around the joint. You also transition from a lap weld to a tee weld as you go around. This obviously should not be your first welding project.
One common mistake I have seen is when using hole saw notchers is not properly finish grinding the cope. Some people leave the "flash" on the end of the tube and try to weld the thin material left at the longest points of the notch instead of grinding it back to the full thickness of the tube. This makes for a scary joint.
A great way to practice and test your welding skill is to buy some 1.5" x .25" strap steel and cut it into 4" pieces. Overlap two pieces and do a lap weld across one side. Put it in a vice, grab a hammer, and try to break them apart. If the weld fails, you need to keep practicing. If the material fails, the weld is good. You will find that even some of the prettiest welds will fail. Beginners tend to use too low of a setting, causing poor penetration, even if the weld is pretty looking. I once broke a front spring hanger off of a SAS'ed Toyota with a pry bar that had been welded by a "fabricator". The welds were pretty, but had no penetration. The customer happened to be standing there. Needless to say his jaw hit the floor.
All of you who are saying how easy it is to weld a cage, especially those using 120v welders, try this little exercise. take two pieces of tube, do a 90* notch on one piece, then weld a tee shape 1/4 of the way around, half lap, half tee. put it in a vice, and break it apart. What failed, the tube or the weld?
Post up your results!
P.S. One thing I do not like about the Metal Tech cage is the small brace from the main hoop to the halo. It is too close to the occupants heads, and could cause a serious head injury in a hard roll or even a violent accident. I would make it much smaller, or just use a triangular gusset in it's place.
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