Builds Welcome home Matilda - faded like your favorite pair of jeans (3 Viewers)

[77CruiserDog]

I totally agree that the entire motor needs a fresh assessment. I do, however, want to know how a cracked block will present itself so that I can be on the lookout for that, amongst other things.

So here's an additional questions: how would symptoms differ between a cracked block and a cracked head? Would some potential symptoms overlap, and then how would I discern between the two?

Last thing: Metal expands with heat, so I feel like any cracks that would cause leakage of coolant or oil would be more prone to leaking when cold, rather than when hot. A hot engine crack I think would expand and in some cases (not all) self-seal. Am I thinking about this the opposite way?

Yep from what I've seen, a cracked head will run with more mild issues... as they tend to crack around the valves on a 2f and typically not disrupting coolant or oil passages. Distilling down all I've learned here on MUD, it's rare to see coolant in the oil or pressure build up in the cooling system from a cracked head/block, that's more often a head gasket. However, I would think getting it running is the first step as you'll want to break free those rings to get a proper compression test/leak down test and witness whatever symptoms you notice as it's running and after it is shut down.

I would assume some symptoms do overlap, but I'd say cross that bridge when you get there.

Regarding how a cracked block presents itself, it just depends on how it's cracked. Though a water jacket, through an oil passage, through the outside of the block... I've not witnessed a cracked 2f block, but I've seen pictures and it's hard to miss it once you figure out where it's cracked. The two I've seen are on the outside and it weeps coolant.... a very noticable trail of green coolant. Fingers crossed for you.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Yep from what I've seen, a cracked head will run with more mild issues... as they tend to crack around the valves on a 2f and typically not disrupting coolant or oil passages. Distilling down all I've learned here on MUD, it's rare to see coolant in the oil or pressure build up in the cooling system from a cracked head/block, that's more often a head gasket. However, I would think getting it running is the first step as you'll want to break free those rings to get a proper compression test/leak down test and witness whatever symptoms you notice as it's running and after it is shut down.

I would assume some symptoms do overlap, but I'd say cross that bridge when you get there.

Regarding how a cracked block presents itself, it just depends on how it's cracked. Though a water jacket, through an oil passage, through the outside of the block... I've not witnessed a cracked 2f block, but I've seen pictures and it's hard to miss it once you figure out where it's cracked. The two I've seen are on the outside and it weeps coolant.... a very noticable trail of green coolant. Fingers crossed for you.

Like i said, no weeping currently, but that may change once the system is pressurized. I've also not seen any evidence of oil & coolant mixing but that also remains to-be-determined.

Y'all are so great. I appreciate all the feedback.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Adjusting valves today, hoping that helps this truck run. She got REALLY close last night - sputtered and coughed all on her own for about 10 seconds. Is it possible to set timing without the motor running, even if it’s approximate? That’s one of the last things that might be causing me issues.

Anyway, I’m here with the top of the head exposed. The small freeze plugs are absolutely FULL of goo. Old sludgy oil. I probably should have left well enough alone, since it would just sit there if undisturbed. But curiosity got the better of me. Now I’m making sure I get ALL of it. For what it’s worth all the valves are very, very tight.

I also discovered that these aftermarket wheels are the self-clearancing kind. I texted PO and he said they came on the truck when he bought it in 2004. Yikes. I wonder what gas mileage was like with the extra drag. I do think they look pretty great though, and maybe I’ll add an 1/8” shim to the hub. Otherwise I got an OEM wheel set I can use.

 

[CruiserTrash]

FWIW, the carb at least looks good. Heck, both pump boots are not only intact, but immaculate. No fuel leaks or moisture around the base.

 

[HemiAlex]

Sell those boots and recoup purchase price.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Sell those boots and recoup purchase price.

I have definitely given thought to somehow cloning them. They’re the nicest ones I’ve ever seen.

 

[HemiAlex]

If anyone could pull it off, it’s you.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Chipping away at small stuff tonight. Swapped out the HAC and this other vacuum widget that had hoses attached with RTV - the nipples likely broke off and of course RTV was the handy solution. I had some spares … I have LOTS of vacuum widget spares. I’m any case this RTV solution really has me concerned about what else I might find. I really feel like going nuclear and taking the chance on swapping the new head, manifold, water pump, fan clutch, the Jim C carb from my tomato truck, all new vac hoses, and the new coolant hoses into this block and seeing what happens. If the block is the issue though, that’s a lot of work for nothing.

Before

After (some residual RTV in the hoses)

One of the spark plugs had a cracked insulator so why not chuck 6 new plugs in there?

EDIT: the old spark plugs continue to be sopping wet with oil, particularly 3 & 4. I did roughly check that the dizzy rotor was moving at and into #1 between TDC and the 7* BB. Maybe that borked HAC was throwing base timing off just enough. Maybe the piston rings haven’t expanded because the truck hasn’t been hot in 4-5 years.

I had better luck starting my Pig after it sat from 2007-2021….

 

[CruiserTrash]

SHE RUNS FOLKS

@mattressking stopped by while en route to Tejas to pick up some parts I had for @HemiAlex. He asked about Matilda and when I said she wasn’t running yet he responded with something like “I got about 20 minutes, let’s do this.”

He figured out the mixture was lean because of a massive intake manifold gasket leak, over-richened the carb to compensate and voila, she stayed running under her own power. Now, she’s running like absolute s*** so there’s that. Brake cleaner showed the manifold gasket leak on the intake side and exhaust smoke coming out showed it was leaking from the exhaust too.



Back a few posts I showed that the manifold gasket was slathered in red RTV. I also know that PO was in a tight financial spot when this truck got parked around 2017 or so. and if y’all remember it had 2qts of oil in the pan when I picked it up. From those three pieces of info, my working theory is as follows: PO ran the truck while very low on oil, the entire engine got hot warping or possibly cracking both the head and intake manifold. He then called the mechanic and said “My truck is running like s*** and I don’t have a lot of money, but can you help me out?” and the mechanic’s solution - on a limited time frame and budget - was to throw some RTV at the manifold gasket and hope for the best.

I’ve been there in the past, so broke that I’m putting $5 of gas in my vehicle because that’s all I had and I needed to get to work. No clue about the PO’s exact financial situation, and I don’t care to know, but I can wrap my head around it and sympathize.

In any case, at Nate’s suggestion, I’m going to pull things apart and check the bare manifold against the head with feeler gauges, replace manifold set if necessary (I have an extra), replace the manifold gasket, and run it. I think if the block is cracked or the head damaged, those issues and more will present themselves if I’m driving the truck. THEN I can figure out what to do about this head swap/top end refresh.

 

[CruiserTrash]

I’m often overwhelmed by what this community can do and with the amount of totally free support folks give out of the kindness of their hearts. I’ve seldom been a part of any other community that takes care of each other like this. As mentioned in another post on another thread, I can only hope to share my small amount of knowledge with newbies and pass on the help. Thanks all of you, you rule. And thanks to Nate!

 

[77CruiserDog]

I’m often overwhelmed by what this community can do and with the amount of totally free support folks give out of the kindness of their hearts. I’ve seldom been a part of any other community that takes care of each other like this. As mentioned in another post on another thread, I can only hope to share the small amount of knowledge with newbies and pass on the help. Thanks all of you, you rule. And thanks to Nate!

It takes a team Nate! We've all been in a similar situation and needed some help. My first head replacement when I was 17 years old, I installed the distributor 180 degrees off and after hours of working on it, the guy from the machine shop drove to my house to help me. I said, "That's amazing customer service! Thank you!!" He just said, "I did the same thing once too and someone came to help me." Good people want to help other good people.

I think your direction is solid and I like the one step at a time approach. Starting with the most likely culprit and moving on once that's been dealt with is exactly the way to do it. Stoked to continue to watch this thread develop.

 

[CruiserTrash]

It takes a team Nate! We've all been in a similar situation and needed some help. My first head replacement when I was 17 years old, I installed the distributor 180 degrees off and after hours of working on it, the guy from the machine shop drove to my house to help me. I said, "That's amazing customer service! Thank you!!" He just said, "I did the same thing once too and someone came to help me." Good people want to help other good people.

I think your direction is solid and I like the one step at a time approach. Starting with the most likely culprit and moving on once that's been dealt with is exactly the way to do it. Stoked to continue to watch this thread develop.

Oh my god, 180* off on the dizzy? So guaranteed valve impact on the pistons? As sad as that probably was, I bet the sound it made was incredibly.

 

[TLC4K2]

Excellent news about Matilda! And that's awesome about @mattressking stopping by to provide so much help and encouragement! I look forward to reading about your next steps and progress! Long live the supportive community here!
Kathryn and Kaylee

 

[77CruiserDog]

Oh my god, 180* off on the dizzy? So guaranteed valve impact on the pistons? As sad as that probably was, I bet the sound it made was incredibly.

180 off with the distributor simply means the spark plug tried to fire when the piston was coming up for the exhaust stroke rather than the compression stroke. No engine damage was done.... it just wouldn't start. It left me overwhelmed to the point of questioning every aspect of the simple headgasket replacement. Having a more experinced person lend a hand was instramental in helping me get it started, feel that accomplishment of doing my first big job and more importantly learn a lesson on helping others.

 

[CruiserTrash]

180 off with the distributor simply means the spark plug tried to fire when the piston was coming up for the exhaust stroke rather than the compression stroke. No engine damage was done.... it just wouldn't start. It left me overwhelmed to the point of questioning every aspect of the simple headgasket replacement. Having a more experinced person lend a hand was instramental in helping me get it started, feel that accomplishment of doing my first big job and more importantly learn a lesson on helping others.

I have COVID right now and have some serious brain fog going on - of course the dizzy doesn’t control the cam/valves

This is about the 3rd or 4th serious brain fart today.

 

[77CruiserDog]

I have COVID right now and have some serious brain fog going on - of course the dizzy doesn’t control the cam/valves

This is about the 3rd or 4th serious brain fart today.

That sucks to hear, rest up and feel better my man!

 

[CruiserTrash]

The past two nights I’ve been starting the manifold gasket job. So far I have about 5 hours into it and I’ve just about got the manifolds off.

Most bolts are coming out easily, but there’s been one speed bump so far:
The ferrule on the end of the choke cable … when it was made the cable was stuck too far through and soldered into place with a bit of it sticking up, which prevented it from wanting to come out of the carb linkage. Embarrassingly I spent an hour on that alone. I was finally able to find a very thin file and go at it while it was attached to the carb. I have no clue how it was installed in the first place.

Found the entire PCV system totally clogged and inop. The truck has 124k miles and by the looks of it so does the PCV valve.

The amount of RTV used here cannot be overstated. It’s a lot. Even the carb had RTV. Every manifold bolt had RTV on the threads and the tip, meaning there was so much RTV that the bolts pushed it down into the threaded holes in the head. I’m sure torque values were accurate with goop on the threads…

Other things I found:
1. Manifold studs both looked to be turned with channel lols at some point, threads are trashed. The studs are different lengths for some reason.
2. Several bolts have been replaced with hardware store stuff. Luckily the thread pitches are correct.
3. This truck has a heat shield I don’t have on the tomato truck. It attaches to the frame rail underneath the steering column and prevents access to the exhaust downpipe and j-pipe nuts.

I have done this job two other times on a 2F motor, but I’m open to tips and tricks for final removal of the manifolds, as well as the initial reinstall/placement. Mostly the maneuvering is a little tricky.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Scope creep alert!

I got the manifolds off by removing the EGR cooler. I hadn’t done that on previous two manifold jobs and it makes a world of difference. So now I’m cleaning up the EGR system because why not? I also looked at the exposed block and thought “I should clean that, so I did. I figured it would be a good opportunity to check the block for visible cracks or moisture seeping out. Minor scope creep, but scope creep nonetheless.

So much RTV. There was more behind the gasket, against the head.

The manifold studs look like they were put in with a set of channels locks. Classy.

“Clean” block.

Some strange paint or something by the cylinder 6 freeze plug that won’t come off with a wire brush. Crack? There’s also scratches from a tool on the firewall heat shield. What were they getting at back there?

I tried to dig out the soot from the PCV inlet. Totally caked. I need a pipe cleaning wire brush that attaches to a drill to really get it clean. Again, the crankcase pressure must have been … whatever the maximum pressure is.

So I’ll get the manifold mating surfaces cleaned up, clean out the EGR system, clean the PCV intake, then check the bare manifold against the head to see what kind of straightness - or lack thereof - exists, and then …. We’ll see what the next steps are. Onward.

 

[TLC4K2]

Fingers crossed for you and Matilda, that the more you clean off, the better everything looks. Maybe all the RTV was just an attempt to spare someone the work that you're doing now. I'm sure Matilda is breathing a sigh of relief that someone is taking the time to do her maintenance properly, whatever the outcome.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Side cover gasket removed tonight. I wanted to have a look at the area near cylinder 6, especially the freeze plug, and inspect for the Legend of the Cracked Block.

Wasn’t too hard to remove. The main frustration was all the stuff that needs to get out of the way: alternator and bracket, dizzy, coolant pipes, etc. It got bent just a touch prying it off what has to be the original gasket. It’s very dry, brittle, and crusty. I made sure to clean grease and grime off the area first so I’d have as little debris as possible falling into oil passages.

There’s fine oil sludge built up in the depressions on the bottom of the area, just like I found in the depressions on the top of the head. I wonder if that’s normal or a sign of neglect - I frequent oil & filter changes maybe.

It’s hard to see much in the photos below (it’s tight quarters getting a phone back there by #6), but I see no sign of a crack. So I’ve seen the whole driver’s side, rear, and passenger side of the block. I wonder how hard a hairline is to miss, or if blocks even crack along an unseeable hairline. I feel like cast iron would crack enough to see.

I’ve got family visiting from tomorrow until Friday, so I have from now until this weekend to ponder all of this. Come the weekend I’ll scrape RTV off the manifold and head, and do a dry fit to check for warpage.