Vibration / squeak / thumping (not a good outcome) wheel fell off (1 Viewer)

[gocougs]

Over the weekend I drove from Seattle down to Portland for my son's basketball tournament. During the weekend I went over multiple potholes in and around Portland and Vancouver Washington. At some point my front drive wheel started making a kind of weird squeaking noise, it sounded like my brakes needed to be replaced. As the day went on, the squeaking turned into thumping and some vibration at higher speeds. My next stop was Les Schwab, they pulled off both front wheels and did a visual inspection and spun the wheels while on the lift with no noticeable noises or problems (brakes had plenty of life left and the front wheel bearings were replaced within the last 50k). I watched the technician reinstall the wheels and torque them down and we were on our way. The next day on our way back home we made it about 50 mi on the highway and my wheel flew off the car, thank God I was in the far right lane and was able to get off the road before the wheel came off. I'm racking my brain on what would cause the lugs to back themselves out???

2010 with 189k

 

[Ratchey]

Over the weekend I drove from Seattle down to Portland for my son's basketball tournament. During the weekend I went over multiple potholes in and around Portland and Vancouver Washington. At some point my front drive wheel started making a kind of weird squeaking noise, it sounded like my brakes needed to be replaced. As the day went on, the squeaking turned into thumping and some vibration at higher speeds. My next stop was Les Schwab, they pulled off both front wheels and did a visual inspection and spun the wheels while on the lift with no noticeable noises or problems (brakes had plenty of life left and the front wheel bearings were replaced within the last 50k). I watched the technician reinstall the wheels and torque them down and we were on our way. The next day on our way back home we made it about 50 mi on the highway and my wheel flew off the car, thank God I was in the far right lane and was able to get off the road before the wheel came off. I'm racking my brain on what would cause the lugs to back themselves out???

2010 with 189k

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Hard to see but it looks like the studs broke off. If so, may have been damaged on the potholes and when they torqued the nuts, it gave them the final stretch they needed to finally snap.

 

[A10Driver]

Either over torqued at one point, or not fully torqued causing threads to be stripped would be my guess

 

[Kinnada]

Over the weekend I drove from Seattle down to Portland for my son's basketball tournament. During the weekend I went over multiple potholes in and around Portland and Vancouver Washington. At some point my front drive wheel started making a kind of weird squeaking noise, it sounded like my brakes needed to be replaced. As the day went on, the squeaking turned into thumping and some vibration at higher speeds. My next stop was Les Schwab, they pulled off both front wheels and did a visual inspection and spun the wheels while on the lift with no noticeable noises or problems (brakes had plenty of life left and the front wheel bearings were replaced within the last 50k). I watched the technician reinstall the wheels and torque them down and we were on our way. The next day on our way back home we made it about 50 mi on the highway and my wheel flew off the car, thank God I was in the far right lane and was able to get off the road before the wheel came off. I'm racking my brain on what would cause the lugs to back themselves out???

2010 with 189k

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speculation on my part but from a distance the rotor seems deeply gouged or at least uneven wear, frozen caliper? studs look sheared- possible over torquing after inspection?

 

[TeCKis300]

O man. Good to see everyone's safe.

Definitely due to wheel nut torque. If I had to wager, this issue came about prior to your trip to Les Schwab. For whatever reason, and you might be able to fill in who last worked on the wheels, it is more likely that wheels were under-torqued. This led to cycling and fatigue wear on the studs. By the time Les Schwab got to it, the damage was done. The last torquing of the nuts did them in.

To a degree, it is more dangerous to under-torque than over-torque for bolt seeing cyclic loading.

 

[gocougs]

I had a flat tire in July that was replaced under the discount tire warranty, that was the last time it was off the car. I'm really hoping that travelers insurance doesn't total it out.

 

[linuxgod]

I agree with the likely explanation that the wheel was undertorqued at first and the wheel was moving around slightly and fatiguing the studs.

I had the same thing happen to me in the 90s, though I was on a 2 lane back road when I started hearing a grinding noise and then the studs all popped. The excuse from the tire shop was “your custom wheels need 100lbs of torque and our wrench only goes to 80.” (Not only a dumb excuse but if that’s the case why would you agree to work on it and if you did why would you not tell the customer?!?)

New quarter panel and any door or rocker panel and side step damage is probably the most expensive part of the repair. You’ll likely need a new hub, studs, and brake rotor, but all those are cheap. I suspect all the rest of the suspension etc is actually fine.

 

[rlynch356]

Over-torqued Lugs..100%.. that will break the studs.. you have at least 2 broken ones, chances are one broke, causing the others to break.
Verify with a torque wrench on the other side wheel... set it to 100ft-lbs and see if it clicks before the nut turns and work your way up to breaking torque to get an idea.

just took off a set for a 2017 200 series... that had only been to the dealer for wheel rotations.. all 4 wheels were on with at least 150-200Ft-Lbs of torque... probably from Air guns and no thought..

Spec is 97FT-Lbs

 

[isthatalexus]

Over-torqued Lugs..100%.. that will break the studs.. you have at least 2 broken ones, chances are one broke, causing the others to break.
Verify with a torque wrench on the other side wheel... set it to 100ft-lbs and see if it clicks before the nut turns and work your way up to breaking torque to get an idea.

just took off a set for a 2017 200 series... that had only been to the dealer for wheel rotations.. all 4 wheels were on with at least 150-200Ft-Lbs of torque... probably from Air guns and no thought..

Spec is 97FT-Lbs

Holy Toledo, that's a lot over. I've taken to looking at lug torque (from any third party) as a 'don't trust, just verify' thing.

 

[bloc]

My guess: the studs were already tightened past their yield point in the past, pothole stretched them further, subsequent inspection and torque stretched them yet again, wheel falls off.

You owe it to yourself to have every stud on that vehicle changed with new Genuine Toyota parts before it sees the road again.. you just can’t tell if this was more widespread than that corner.

I also second rlynch suggestion to try and determine the torque value on the other wheels. Get a 150-200lb wrench, start at 80, and increase 5 ft-lbf increments to see where they start moving again. If the rears for example are massively over torqued you have data that may help you determine who’s responsible for this.

 

[NYC570]

Do the LCs that come with steelies from factory also come with different studs? If it doesn't, then they must have really over torqued them.

 

[bloc]

Do the LCs that come with steelies from factory also come with different studs? If it doesn't, then they must have really over torqued them.

Same studs, different lugs.

 

[marques]

I agree with the likely explanation that the wheel was undertorqued at first and the wheel was moving around slightly and fatiguing the studs.

I had the same thing happen to me in the 90s, though I was on a 2 lane back road when I started hearing a grinding noise and then the studs all popped. The excuse from the tire shop was “your custom wheels need 100lbs of torque and our wrench only goes to 80.” (Not only a dumb excuse but if that’s the case why would you agree to work on it and if you did why would you not tell the customer?!?)

New quarter panel and any door or rocker panel and side step damage is probably the most expensive part of the repair. You’ll likely need a new hub, studs, and brake rotor, but all those are cheap. I suspect all the rest of the suspension etc is actually fine.

I agree with the theory of under-torqued lug nuts leading to lose lug nuts/wheel vibration/noise for a while, which damaged the studs, and they eventually failed sometime after they were re-torqued. Potholes alone won't loosen properly torqued lug nuts.

 

[NYC570]

I agree with the likely explanation that the wheel was undertorqued at first and the wheel was moving around slightly and fatiguing the studs.

I had the same thing happen to me in the 90s, though I was on a 2 lane back road when I started hearing a grinding noise and then the studs all popped. The excuse from the tire shop was “your custom wheels need 100lbs of torque and our wrench only goes to 80.” (Not only a dumb excuse but if that’s the case why would you agree to work on it and if you did why would you not tell the customer?!?)

New quarter panel and any door or rocker panel and side step damage is probably the most expensive part of the repair. You’ll likely need a new hub, studs, and brake rotor, but all those are cheap. I suspect all the rest of the suspension etc is actually fine.

I tend to agree with this. Torque spec for steelies is 154ft-lbs, so the studs should be able to take way past the 97ft-lbs spec for alloys.

 

[bloc]

I just wouldn’t expect a wheel to be loose enough to damage the studs without other evidence the shop should have found. But then maybe I’m putting too much faith in their abilities.

 

[linuxgod]

I just wouldn’t expect a wheel to be loose enough to damage the studs without other evidence the shop should have found. But then maybe I’m putting too much faith in their abilities.

My guess is they didn’t notice. It’s not something they were looking for, and if the studs were being pushed-pulled causing metal fatigue but the threads weren’t seriously damaged they just missed it

 

[bloc]

My guess is they didn’t notice. It’s not something they were looking for, and if the studs were being pushed-pulled causing metal fatigue but the threads weren’t seriously damaged they just missed it

I’d expect wallowed out lug holes, a shoulder in the wheel where it fits around the hub centering ring, etc.

All of which could go unnoticed I guess.

 

[gocougs]

SHOOT...My insurance company totaled my car.

 

[Willie G]

SHOOT...My insurance company totaled my car.

If you are so inclined, this can be an opportunity for you to buy it back for their salvage value and fix it yourself.

 

[linuxgod]

SHOOT...My insurance company totaled my car.

That seems crazy. How much damage are they accounting for? At 189k your vehicle has to be worth at least $25-30k. Insurance will often total once a vehicle repair hits 75% but I cannot imagine this being a $20k repair. (obviously I haven't seen pics of the inside of the wheel well or the underside of the truck, but I would have expected the brake rotor to take the brunt of the damage, outside of whatever the wheel damaged as it came off (looks mostly like the body) and wouldn't expect the mechanical bits to be more than a couple grand even if you end up doing new hubs, bearings, etc).