V-8 Conversion Cooling

[ntsqd]

I'm just at the stage of figuring out exactly where to place the TPI in the engine bay. I've been thinking that I wanted it as far to the rear as was reasonable. Both of your pics confirmed that, thank you.

 

[Elbert]

What electric fan are you using in front of the condensor?

Well...in looking at the numbers you say...It would appear that we have very similar distance between water pump and radiator..approx 4 inches. I don't have my stock radiator here (its at the storage place) but there may be some depth I'm giving away due to the radiator thickness.

If my new fan and fan clutch show up...friday I'm going to pull the electric fan and mount the mechanical fan and cluctch and see what kind of room I have. Previously I estaimated something like an inch or so bewteen fan clutch and radiaor core. We'll see. Got to round up the bolts or whatever to mount the fan to the clutch.

my contour fans are motorcraft version from Rock Auto... I will say that the drivers side fan can just about cool the truck by itself (in mild conditions). The fans put out some serious air flow for their size. I saw a viddoe of a lincoln Mark VIII fan...It sounded like a large electric drill when it fired up... serious power for a single (dual speed fan).

I'm on the path to a GM fan clutch and fan.... maybe it will not be to expensive.

I have about 3 1/2" between the radiator core and the front of the fan clutch.... maybe there is a big difference in the newer motors..

I have a big tranny cooler in front of my condenser that I have the Power steering plumbed through. The fluid was overheating with the 35's on tight tight trails. I don't have that problem anymore.

As far as temps go, the needle stays at about a quarter (I forget what temp that was) when it is stopped no matter what the outside temp is. When I get going it drops a bit and stays there. i don't knwo whay it does that but the other one I did does the same thing. I simply cannot get it to even get slose to overheating. Even with the AC on, at idle, with the york running, in the desert, and when it is HOT outside.

Lessons learned are:

-The contour fans work really well, but..
-when the contour fans quit running there is not enough air moving through the radiator to keep it cool all the time
-the countour fans from autozone kinda suck. the motors came unbolted on me and their quality is not there.
-one fan on the countour fan running "kinda" kept it cool, but it slowly overheated on the trail.
-power draw from the countour fans seemed SIGNIFICANT.
-The stock setup is simple and I still get good gas mileage. I got 15.5MPG loaded, and I mean loaded with 2 bikes on top this past week.
-The countour fans interfered with my HAM and CB radios. It was always annoying but I knew when they clicked on
-It is comforting to hear the fan clutch working on hills and at idle
-sometimes the contour fans would cool the truck too much. once it actually threw a code for the motor running too cool. Probably the way I had it wired. I'd force them on a lot.

 

[Elbert]

If my truck will run around the thermostat rating (180F) then I'll be fine. Maybe 200F or so with A/C on or max 210 under heavy load at times. Thats generally what the pickup I use to have would do, but it had a larger radiator. (be-cool).

I swapped out the 195F thermostat to a 180F and so far Iv'e not had any issues.

If I decided to stay with electric fans I would be tempted to try the Mark VIII fan with controller but I'm generally tired of throwing money at the electric fan business.

 

[rover67]

I can double check tonight. Also I'll try to get a dimension on the radiator to front of water pump threaded doodad that the fan screws onto.

What electric fan are you using in front of the condensor?

Well...in looking at the numbers you say...It would appear that we have very similar distance between water pump and radiator..approx 4 inches. I don't have my stock radiator here (its at the storage place) but there may be some depth I'm giving away due to the radiator thickness.

If my new fan and fan clutch show up...friday I'm going to pull the electric fan and mount the mechanical fan and cluctch and see what kind of room I have. Previously I estaimated something like an inch or so bewteen fan clutch and radiaor core. We'll see. Got to round up the bolts or whatever to mount the fan to the clutch.

my contour fans are motorcraft version from Rock Auto... I will say that the drivers side fan can just about cool the truck by itself (in mild conditions). The fans put out some serious air flow for their size. I saw a viddoe of a lincoln Mark VIII fan...It sounded like a large electric drill when it fired up... serious power for a single (dual speed fan).

I'm on the path to a GM fan clutch and fan.... maybe it will not be to expensive.

 

[Moby]

The Lincoln Mark VIII fans are supposed to move around 4600cfm with an amperage draw about the same as a Contour. I've got one sitting in my shop. It's big (deep) and it seriously outflows the Contour. At least with a 2F/3FE it would take mounting it in a custom shroud to clear the water pump. Wagoneer mounted one in a custom shroud for his 2UZ/FJ45 (buildup thread in Hardcore).

 

[MANUCHAO]

If I decided to stay with electric fans I would be tempted to try the Mark VIII fan with controller but I'm generally tired of throwing money at the electric fan business.

Elbert, this is my set up. Went from LA to Phoenix/Flag Staff/Telluride to Crested Butte(currently there). Had zero cooling issues... on the longest of grades..given temps went as high as 240 but that's about it. Trailer is full with bike/climbing/camping gear.

Hope yah go with the mechanical set up tho'.
I like my electrical but nothing beats mechanical.........

 

[Elbert]

are you saying you are hitting 240F...? That's way to high..

Anything much past 210F I would be concerned about.

I think the max temp I've seen is around 220F and that's been giving it hell for a while.

What radiator do you have? I would be concerend about 240F.

What is your truck doing off-road, regarding temp?

I should have new GM fan and fan clutch on Friday.... may be able to get it installed same day. Just to mock up and see what it does. Getting everything like I want it, depends on what we change. (which I only want to do once) and get it right and leave it alone after that.

View attachment 429947
Elbert, this is my set up. Went from LA to Phoenix/Flag Staff/Telluride to Crested Butte(currently there). Had zero cooling issues... on the longest of grades..given temps went as high as 240 but that's about it. Trailer is full with bike/climbing/camping gear.

Hope yah go with the mechanical set up tho'.
I like my electrical but nothing beats mechanical.........

 

[Bret]

The MKVIII fan is a perfect fit for a 19X26 radiator, I thought the stock radiator was a bit smaller (at least for a 40) It is also pretty deep, but you could trim the shroud a little to reduce the depth a little.

 

[Mace]

given temps went as high as 240 but that's about it.

Ummm, that's really high...

 

[Elbert]

I like the Mark VIII from what I've seen. I'm thinking you'll need a 140 Amp Alt to pwr that thing.

But thats true of any fan that has decent performance...same game with the SPAL units and other fans too (that move some air).

 

[Elbert]

I'm dead set on the mechanical fan setup now...

BY the way...check out the prices for a new Mark VIII fan $$$

 

[rover67]

Forgot to measure last night, promise i'll do it tonight...

Yeah, 240 is hot man....

 

[Moby]

I like the Mark VIII from what I've seen. I'm thinking you'll need a 140 Amp Alt to pwr that thing.

But thats true of any fan that has decent performance...same game with the SPAL units and other fans too (that move some air).

I haven't measured this myself but Delta Current Control says that the Contour and Mark VIII fans have the same amperage draw. He sells both of these fans so I trust his rating (although I assume that it is a no-load rating). My dual SPAL 11" "extreme" fans actually draw more at their no load rating. Regardless I upgraded my alternator to a 175 amp unit before moving to an electric fan. Any electric fan that can move enough air to potentially cool a 60/62 is going to need an electrical upgrade. Seattle hasn't broken 75 degrees in something like 273 days so I can't say if the SPALs will be better in practice than the Contour that I ran.

As for fit my understanding is that a Mark VIII is a good fit in a 40. It doesn't fit the 60 series rad as well. It would also need to be offset to clear the waterpump of a 2F/3FE. V8s with the engine moved back might have more room?

 

[Mace]

I haven't measured this myself but Delta Current Control says that the Contour and Mark VIII fans have the same amperage draw. He sells both of these fans so I trust his rating (although I assume that it is a no-load rating).

You actually got to chat with the Delta current control guy?

Interesting.

 

[Bret]

As for fit my understanding is that a Mark VIII is a good fit in a 40. It doesn't fit the 60 series rad as well. It would also need to be offset to clear the waterpump of a 2F/3FE. V8s with the engine moved back might have more room?

The pics above are not a stock 40 radiator, the dimension of the shroud on the MKVIII is 19X22" and the motor is offset to the side. I have a couple in the garage if you need measurments or pictures.

Bear in mind you don't want a "normal" high output alternator, you would be better served by a "high output/low RPM" alternator. While idling around or in stop and go traffic the engine RPMs may not be high enough to keep the fan running without draining the battery. Also keep in mind the power from the lights, heater blower, etc. that you may be using in the dark. A major reason I switched to a mech fan.

 

[rover67]

So I have 7 3/8" from the radiator to the front of the water pump pully which is where the big nut for the fan clutch bottoms out.

So, 7 3/8" - 3 1/2" means that clutch is about 3 7/8" long.. it sticks out farther than the fan blades on my setup.

your's will be reeeeealy close. If you measured 4 inches from the tip of the water pump threaded part you'd have an extra inch which just might make it all work with a 2 peice shroud.

 

[Elbert]

Yeah... I think before when I was "eye-balling-it" I figured about an inch clearance...so went to electric fans. It does sound like you have greater room between the water pump and radiator core. Maybe I can get some good measurements and pics by Saturday.. I've got to leave on travel early Sunday afternoon, but maybe in the next week or two my freind and I can determine the best path forward to the "final solution"...

right now I'm just going to remove the electric fans (temp), install fan and fan clutch. See what clears and by how much, See if I might be able to gain a little more clearance by modifying the front engine mounts, and otherwise see what I need to do to move the engine back about 3 to 4 inches.

If I have some clearance I may just drive it around "shroudless" a little bit to see what it will do. I am concerned about the fan blades "walking forward" when under load ie..flexing (hit radiator core) also in clearing the two water necks at the radiator.

Appreciate the feedback and all the comments. Keep em coming..if you have soeme nic pics showing fan shrouds that would be good too...to give us some ideas. THe more I know the more potentialy options I have in making this work.

Getting A/C working is in process too.

So I have 7 3/8" from the radiator to the front of the water pump pully which is where the big nut for the fan clutch bottoms out.

So, 7 3/8" - 3 1/2" means that clutch is about 3 7/8" long.. it sticks out farther than the fan blades on my setup.

your's will be reeeeealy close. If you measured 4 inches from the tip of the water pump threaded part you'd have an extra inch which just might make it all work with a 2 peice shroud.

 

[Elbert]

I sent the DC control guy an email a week or two back on a quetions about his controller. No reply so far.

Last time I looked on his web site...all I saw was controllers...he no longer lists the fans...(maybe he still sales them) but you can't tell that by his current web site.

I know that SPAL came out with a new controller. I had the older version for a while and it just would not work right.

Have to be really careful with the controllers from what I've read...don't think a lot of the them are rated for the high amperage fans like the SPAL and others..

Not even sure if the SPAL fan controller is rated to control two of their 16 inch high performance fans... I have a couple of those in storage and they will cool just about anything. As long as you have the room and the ALt...you are good.

I haven't measured this myself but Delta Current Control says that the Contour and Mark VIII fans have the same amperage draw. He sells both of these fans so I trust his rating (although I assume that it is a no-load rating). My dual SPAL 11" "extreme" fans actually draw more at their no load rating. Regardless I upgraded my alternator to a 175 amp unit before moving to an electric fan. Any electric fan that can move enough air to potentially cool a 60/62 is going to need an electrical upgrade. Seattle hasn't broken 75 degrees in something like 273 days so I can't say if the SPALs will be better in practice than the Contour that I ran.

As for fit my understanding is that a Mark VIII is a good fit in a 40. It doesn't fit the 60 series rad as well. It would also need to be offset to clear the waterpump of a 2F/3FE. V8s with the engine moved back might have more room?

 

[Elbert]

on another note...wonder if anyone has installed lovures in their hood to reduce temps. There was a great write-up over in the 80 section where a guy took (as I recall) Pontaic GTP lovures and installed them on this 80...cut holes and everything...very clean isntall.

But you open yourself up to water issues under the hood / rust...etc.

I know on my truck the hood gets grazy hot though.

 

[ntsqd]

Downside to louvers in the hood is where some/most of that air goes. Right to the base of the windshield where the vent air is drawn from. A friend with a louver press has BT, DT on his own stuff.

If louvers look to be an option I strongly suggest taping bits of yarn in a grid to one side of the hood. Then take it for a drive and have someone take pics of the yarn at different speeds. What they're doing will tell you where you do and don't want the louvers. If they are laid flat on the hood and don't wiggle much it's a bad spot. Best is where they're standing straight up or trying to. That is the area of the highest vacuum and will help draw out the most air.