Update: 5W-30 & Heavier Recommended RoTW (3 Viewers)

[skrypj]

I’m not the smartest guy here but I’ve always heard and read that mixing different motor oil weights is ill advised.

If your jumping ship on the 0W20 then 5w30 or 0w30 would be the standard move. Someone on here had tell of his truck running 40 before he acquired it and the switch back to 20 was accompanied by lots of top end chatter. I believe it’s on the big oil weight thread.

Why would it matter about mixing weights? They will literally mix and form some middle ground between the two weights. Plenty of threads on BITOG about it. Mix a 10W-30 and a 0W-20 and you will probably end up somewhere around 5W-25ish if that were a thing.

Oils meet an ASTM standard so that they do not have an negative interaction with each other.

I know this will kill you guys but I mixed 0W-20 Supertech, 10W-30 Supertech, 5W-30 M1 and 5W-30 Castrol in a single fill on my GX460.

 

[Artie]

Why would it matter about mixing weights? They will literally mix and form some middle ground between the two weights. Plenty of threads on BITOG about it. Mix a 10W-30 and a 0W-20 and you will probably end up somewhere around 5W-25ish if that were a thing.

Oils meet an ASTM standard so that they do not have an negative interaction with each other.

I know this will kill you guys but I mixed 0W-20 Supertech, 10W-30 Supertech, 5W-30 M1 and 5W-30 Castrol in a single fill on my GX460.

I do not have an educated answer for this other than having worked in a motor shop in my younger days and hearing all types of motor and race talk from the older guys. It could be different now with synthetics but I’m stuck in my ways and have never seen any thread or know who or what BITOG is.

 

[gasman4u]

I do not have an educated answer for this other than having worked in a motor shop in my younger days and hearing all types of motor and race talk from the older guys. It could be different now with synthetics but I’m stuck in my ways and have never seen any thread or know who or what BITOG is.

BITOG = Bob is the oil guy

It's about as heady and pendantic a forum as you could ever hope to find about motor oils. There's some GREAT info there, and there's some garbage. Thankfully, the super informed guys do a great job with calling out the snake oil, outdated info, etc. On the other hand, there is some real pushing the envelope on OCI's there. Some guys going 25k+ on a single oil change, etc. Usually smaller engines, but still. That's a LOT of miles IMO.

 

[Artie]

BITOG = Bob is the oil guy

It's about as heady and pendantic a forum as you could ever hope to find about motor oils. There's some GREAT info there, and there's some garbage. Thankfully, the super informed guys do a great job with calling out the snake oil, outdated info, etc. On the other hand, there is some real pushing the envelope on OCI's there. Some guys going 25k+ on a single oil change, etc. Usually smaller engines, but still. That's a LOT of miles IMO.

Gotcha, I’ll have a look.

25k OCI seems to be asking for trouble in my feeble mind. Are these guys showing off what’s under their valve covers? When it comes to oil, the limits of my bravery have been hit with 6.5k OCI and using 0W30… what can I say, I’m a simple man.

 

[gaijin]

I’m not the smartest guy here but I’ve always heard and read that mixing different motor oil weights is ill advised.

If your jumping ship on the 0W20 then 5w30 or 0w30 would be the standard move. Someone on here had tell of his truck running 40 before he acquired it and the switch back to 20 was accompanied by lots of top end chatter. I believe it’s on the big oil weight thread.

I think we may be losing sight of what Toyota actually recommends in ROW for the 3UR-FE engine, so here are the Toyota recommendations again as a refresher:

This Toyota chart tells me that a "standard move" away from 0W-20 would be 5W-20 or 5W-30. 0W30 is not even in the chart!

Further, the only -40 offering recommended is the 15W-40 and that would be for climates which never go below 10°F. Again, 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40 are not recommended.

In any event, I would limit my choices to what Toyota recommends - still lots of options. I'm personally on the 5W-30 train for all year use.

HTH

 

[Artie]

I think we may be losing sight of what Toyota actually recommends in ROW for the 3UR-FE engine, so here are the Toyota recommendations again as a refresher:

View attachment 3669109

This Toyota chart tells me that a "standard move" away from 0W-20 would be 5W-20 or 5W-30. 0W30 is not even in the chart!

Further, the only -40 offering recommended is the 15W-40 and that would be for climates which never go below 10°F. Again, 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40 are not recommended.

In any event, I would limit my choices to what Toyota recommends - still lots of options. I'm personally on the 5W-30 train for all year use.

HTH

I should probably move to the 5W but I have a couple jugs of 0W30 still to run through. Bonus on the 5W is the ability to use the correct oil cap.

I do wonder why 0W30 isn’t on the rec page but 0W20 is.

 

[Zill]

I should probably move to the 5W but I have a couple jugs of 0W30 still to run through. Bonus on the 5W is the ability to use the correct oil cap.

I do wonder why 0W30 isn’t on the rec page but 0W20 is.

If I’m not mistaken, 0W-30 is a relatively new oil type that mainly Euro vehicles use.

The 0W in 0W-20 (vs 0W-30) is slightly thinner at the cold temp due to the oil viscosity scaling. In other words 0W, is not an apples to apples comparison when looking at oil types.

Still the viscosity of 0W-30 is in between 0W-20 and 5W-30, and is the best of both worlds, yet is slightly more expensive.

I’m still partial to 5W-30 because it’s really cheap and easy to find. It works great for most of the use cases in the lower 48.

 

[Artie]

If I’m not mistaken, 0W-30 is a relatively new oil type that mainly Euro vehicles use.

The 0W in 0W-20 (vs 0W-30) is slightly thinner at the cold temp due to the oil viscosity scaling. In other words 0W, is not an apples to apples comparison when looking at oil types.

Still the viscosity of 0W-30 is in between 0W-20 and 5W-30, and is the best of both worlds, yet is slightly more expensive.

I’m still partial to 5W-30 because it’s really cheap and easy to find. It works great for most of the use cases in the lower 48.

I do believe you are correct about 0W30 being somewhat new to the scene. I was of the same mind regarding the “best of both worlds” when I made the switch.

As for the cost, it’s for a Land Cruiser… my wife is convinced I was crush to death by a chest of doubloons in a previous life.

 

[Chucky313]

my 13 lx all its life have been 0w-20, i switched to 5w-30 mobil 1 yesterday (7-2-2024) and wow what a difference. It feel like the truck just woke up from a big long 11 years nap. im never going back to 0w-20.

 

[skrypj]

BITOG = Bob is the oil guy

It's about as heady and pendantic a forum as you could ever hope to find about motor oils. There's some GREAT info there, and there's some garbage. Thankfully, the super informed guys do a great job with calling out the snake oil, outdated info, etc. On the other hand, there is some real pushing the envelope on OCI's there. Some guys going 25k+ on a single oil change, etc. Usually smaller engines, but still. That's a LOT of miles IMO.

Some dude came onto the f150 forum the other day claiming nearly 100k OCI’s on Amsoil. He said he would send in an oil analysis once a year and kept getting the thumbs up

 

[Willie G]

Engine seems much quieter since the switch to 10w-30 - no slow starts at 0 degrees this past January, which is a shame since I was looking to justify a Group 31. Fuel economy hovering between 16.3 and 17.3 on my daily 30 mile (one way) commute in Denver traffic.

 

[skrypj]

I think we may be losing sight of what Toyota actually recommends in ROW for the 3UR-FE engine, so here are the Toyota recommendations again as a refresher:

View attachment 3669109

This Toyota chart tells me that a "standard move" away from 0W-20 would be 5W-20 or 5W-30. 0W30 is not even in the chart!

Further, the only -40 offering recommended is the 15W-40 and that would be for climates which never go below 10°F. Again, 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40 are not recommended.

In any event, I would limit my choices to what Toyota recommends - still lots of options. I'm personally on the 5W-30 train for all year use.

HTH

I kinda wonder if 0w-30 or 0W-40 was a thing in 2007 when the 200 series came out.

Usually oils that have larger spreads are compromised in some way to be able to have such a large spread. Or, in some cases, you get oils that are true PAO synthetic oils because that’s the only base stock that can make it happen without compromise.

If I’m not mistaken, 0W-30 is a relatively new oil type that mainly Euro vehicles use.

The 0W in 0W-20 (vs 0W-30) is slightly thinner at the cold temp due to the oil viscosity scaling. In other words 0W, is not an apples to apples comparison when looking at oil types.

Still the viscosity of 0W-30 is in between 0W-20 and 5W-30, and is the best of both worlds, yet is slightly more expensive.

I’m still partial to 5W-30 because it’s really cheap and easy to find. It works great for most of the use cases in the lower 48.

I really think the difference between a 0W, 5W or 10W is pretty meaningless unless you are cold starting at super low temps. Or you are being a doofus and flooring it immediately after starting the truck.

As long as the oil pressure gauge is not pegging after you start the truck then you are getting full flow. Engines use positive displacement pumps which means they move the same volume regardless or pressure.

I was putting 15W-40 in my 22RE and it still didn’t get anywhere near max pressure on the gauge during a cold start at 10 or 20F

 

[Zill]

I kinda wonder if 0w-30 or 0W-40 was a thing in 2007 when the 200 series came out.

Usually oils that have larger spreads are compromised in some way to be able to have such a large spread. Or, in some cases, you get oils that are true PAO synthetic oils because that’s the only base stock that can make it happen without compromise.



I really think the difference between a 0W, 5W or 10W is pretty meaningless unless you are cold starting at super low temps. Or you are being a doofus and flooring it immediately after starting the truck.

As long as the oil pressure gauge is not pegging after you start the truck then you are getting full flow. Engines use positive displacement pumps which means they move the same volume regardless or pressure.

I was putting 15W-40 in my 22RE and it still didn’t get anywhere near max pressure on the gauge during a cold start at 10 or 20F

The pump may push the same amount of liquid, but once the oil comes out of the passages, the oil will flow better in a lower viscosity fluid, and will lubricate the parts better on startup as a result (in theory).

The problem with 0W-20 is it’s too thin of an oil film to properly create a good barrier and it results in more top end racket when the top end is rotating. It’s a EPA spec oil and we know for a fact that these motors were designed for 5W-30 with the ROE owner manuals in mind, thus I would not be concerned in the slightest to run that oil instead.

The less metal to metal sound an engine makes, the better it will be for the long run.

 

[TeCKis300]

If I’m not mistaken, 0W-30 is a relatively new oil type that mainly Euro vehicles use.

The 0W in 0W-20 (vs 0W-30) is slightly thinner at the cold temp due to the oil viscosity scaling. In other words 0W, is not an apples to apples comparison when looking at oil types.

Still the viscosity of 0W-30 is in between 0W-20 and 5W-30, and is the best of both worlds, yet is slightly more expensive.

I’m still partial to 5W-30 because it’s really cheap and easy to find. It works great for most of the use cases in the lower 48.

This.

5W-30 is a commodity composition. It's easy to make a worse choice and use a fundamentally lesser oil with poor additives in this viscosity. There are base formulation that definitely not better than most 0W-20s. 0W-30 is one those more modern bases. 0W-12 and even 0W-8 are now a thing. Which to your point requires even more modern and stronger bases, with superior additive packages. Startup protection is very important.

There are tests (I'll have to dig) where these lower viscosity oils show better long term protection than even 5W-30s. Trying to say that it's not singularly about viscosity and significant wear happens outside of steady state.

I would caution others buying into yet another "more is better" fallacy when applied to viscosity.

 

[bloc]

Gotcha, I’ll have a look.

25k OCI seems to be asking for trouble in my feeble mind. Are these guys showing off what’s under their valve covers? When it comes to oil, the limits of my bravery have been hit with 6.5k OCI and using 0W30… what can I say, I’m a simple man.

They don't do that OCI blindly though. These guys are such nerds about lubrication that some install a valve so they can take an oil sample while the engine is running. That sample will be sent off for testing to verify the oil is still doing what it needs to mechanically, as well as look for suspended wear metals, soot loading, all kinds of stuff. Do that every 3-5k then decide when to pull the oil.

There was a guy that did that with a super premium european oil in an older vw TDI and went something like 36k before they said it needed to be changed.

And if the oil lab nerds say the oil is still working, why throw away money changing it early?

If I’m not mistaken, 0W-30 is a relatively new oil type that mainly Euro vehicles use.

Correct. Also I found it interesting that per the spec sheets most of the 0W-30s are actually more viscous in the 30 range than the 5W-30s. I've seen speculation that this has to do with the higher level base stocks that are needed for such a viscosity spread.

I kinda wonder if 0w-30 or 0W-40 was a thing in 2007 when the 200 series came out.

Pretty sure MB spec'd a 0W-40 as an option for their 05-06 E320 CDI's.

 

[LX4x4]

When I got my LX the dealer had just changed the oil with their synthetic. It ticks loudly like a diesel.
I am not sure it was toyota oil possibly made by mobil 1. I always find mobil 1 feels thinner than others and never fail to make lfiter ticks and all kinds of noise.

I changed mine out to Castrol 0W20 extended performance and it is alot quieter.
the chart looks fine to me (seem to go up to 120F or so?) except mine needed 8.5 quart to get to the top mark of dipstick cold.

 

[Artie]

I know this guy may not be scientific enough for this crowd and this oil is for diesels but they are all the same weights and his pour tests are interesting. It highlights the difference in viscosity between brands for the same weights.

 

[bloc]

I know this guy may not be scientific enough for this crowd and this oil is for diesels but they are all the same weights and his pour tests are interesting. It highlights the difference in viscosity between brands for the same weights.

Much of this is available in the data sheets of these oils.

 

[TeCKis300]

Engine seems much quieter since the switch to 10w-30 - no slow starts at 0 degrees this past January, which is a shame since I was looking to justify a Group 31. Fuel economy hovering between 16.3 and 17.3 on my daily 30 mile (one way) commute in Denver traffic.

Food for thought. Majority of the wear in modern engines is at cold and dry starts. OEMs are using lighter weight cold ratings to combat that wear. If I'm not mistaken, Parker and Denver CO are at high in elevations and see pretty cold winters and mild summers.

Just looking out and I'd encourage you to reconsider going back to 0W-20.

 

[Willie G]

Food for thought. Majority of the wear in modern engines is at cold and dry starts. OEMs are using lighter weight cold ratings to combat that wear. If I'm not mistaken, Parker and Denver CO are at high in elevations and see pretty cold winters and mild summers.

Just looking out and I'd encourage you to reconsider going back to 0W-20.

Truly much appreciated and you are quite right.

I am an admitted oil luddite with deep memories of single weight oils and bias-ply tires, so there's little chance of this old dawg learning any new tricks. Given the change in my driving habits, I doubt I'll be around long enough to push this thing over the 200k mark.