Update: 5W-30 & Heavier Recommended RoTW (5 Viewers)

[185]

Sure, your points are understood. I was helping clarify the point someone else made which I tend to agree with.

Point noted. I am hoping the original poster will still explain their reasoning as to why they prefer a lower hths oil.

Tell that to Toyota which specs 0W-20 for our engines here in the states. Cold start wear is real, and that doesn't just mean in very cold weather. With current manufacturing precision, it can often be the larger factor in overall engine wear.

Toyota is quite coy in their service manual/warranty book, and implies that while the majority of the owners will be able to run 0w20 without ill effect, as a result of designing the engine to work with 0w20, like most modern vehicles, if severe duty is anticipated a thicker oil maybe used. What grade that maybe they didnt mention, but we can extrapolate the limits of those oils from most of the overseas manuals.

Yes, sorta. I won't reach just for higher HTHS without consideration to efficiency and cold and winter start consideration, which is why my preference is 0W-30. The sole reason I'm even seeking anymore HTHS is due to heavy towing in summer. If I didn't do that, I don't think I would switch from what Toyota recommends.

As with most aftermarket parts and consideration , it's hard to do better, and often might just do worse than what Toyota recommends.

As I mentioned earlier in my posts on this topic, i have a system that has worked for me and I stick to it as well. As with most, i dont believe the LX or any TMC suv previous generation product has an oiling related failure or oil visc failure.

Recently changed from Toyota dealer 0W20 oil changes to DIY at 35k miles using 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, while using genuine Toyota filter bought directly from the dealer. I had the dealer change it every 5k from new. Now i will do myself every 5k with 5W30.

Two things I have noticed:
Higher Oil Pressure - On the internal dash gauge, as observed or measured by others switching from 0W20 to 0W30 or 5W30 or 0W40 oil. I like this and it will also help the timing chain actuator to apply slightly more force on the timing chain
Smoother running engine - Including at start up making less noise when revving initially to 1200 to 1400 rpm and then settle to idle between 600 (AC off) to 800 rpm (AC compressor on). I assume the initial revving is the motor management wanting to heat up the engine and cats quicker for emission control. Not sure this is ideal for wear, but so it is.

Also happy to know this provides a better film to protect the engine upon start up. Afterall the 3UR-FE was delivered from the factory with 5W30 when it came on the market (possible 5W40 or 10W40 for the Middle East) and not 0W20 as pushed for by the EPA.

The motor management of yesteryear toyotas has been warm up as fast a possible. Personally I cant measure the vibration or lack thereof with oil changes and/or visc changes since I would need to get more specific testing equipment, but one day hope to get some better techincal insight on that.

 

[dms]

Question, which weight oil provides the greatest protection at startup? I only drive my 18LC occasionally and have been worried about excessive wear due to the fact that the oil has a lot of time to drain back into the pan between starts. Back in the old days, it was possible to crank the engine before starting which probably helped circulate a bit of oil before the engine fired, now days they fire right up.

 

[185]

Question, which weight oil provides the greatest protection at startup? I only drive my 18LC occasionally and have been worried about excessive wear due to the fact that the oil has a lot of time to drain back into the pan between starts. Back in the old days, it was possible to crank the engine before starting which probably helped circulate a bit of oil before the engine fired, now days they fire right up.

do you go below freezing?

Cold cranking an engine without ignition does absolutely nothing for mitigating cold start wear. You are better off getting a block/sump heater to have an meaningful impact. Now in regards to sitting, oil film on internal metal parts takes years to remove. The couple of seconds it takes for oil to start lubricating after having sat for some time should be of no concern.

 

[dms]

do you go below freezing?

Cold cranking an engine without ignition does absolutely nothing for mitigating cold start wear. You are better off getting a block/sump heater to have an meaningful impact. Now in regards to sitting, oil film on internal metal parts takes years to remove. The couple of seconds it takes for oil to start lubricating after having sat for some time should be of no concern.

I'm in OKC. The temps will drop below freezing and often as low as zero or a little below in the winter, but sustained below freezing temps are rare.

 

[185]

I'm in OKC. The temps will drop below freezing and often as low as zero or a little below in the winter, but sustained below freezing temps are rare.

from the SAE charts you can technically start the engine with upto a 15w oil.

 

[bloc]

Personally I cant measure the vibration or lack thereof with oil changes and/or visc changes since I would need to get more specific testing equipment, but one day hope to get some better techincal insight on that.

Is vibration one of the ways you'd test an engine for startup or other wear?

 

[TeCKis300]

It's not a freezing temperature or SAE threshold per say. As with many things, it's a degree of. The lowest viscosity oil will have the best chance to flow to the critical bearings fastest. So instead of 5 cranks, there may be meaningful flow and pressure at the bearings in 3 cranks.

Question, which weight oil provides the greatest protection at startup? I only drive my 18LC occasionally and have been worried about excessive wear due to the fact that the oil has a lot of time to drain back into the pan between starts. Back in the old days, it was possible to crank the engine before starting which probably helped circulate a bit of oil before the engine fired, now days they fire right up.

Stay with Toyota's recommendation unless you have a significant use case or live in an atypical climate.

 

[2021 LC200]

Stay with Toyota's recommendation unless you have a significant use case or live in an atypical climate.

I would stick with 5W30 as originally used for the design of the 3UR-FE and initial years of factory delivery of the 200 series, unless frequent cold starts at say below 0 degr F are required, in which case I would recommend the more expensive 0W30. Having said that, the 0W30 is likely not helping cold start wear in most parts of the US. Maybe some states in the north or when you live in the mountains at high elevation.


This graph maybe not be the clearest as 5W30 and 10W30 is clearly W30 oil and useable upto and above 100 F

 

[dms]

I think that I will switch to 5W-30. It seems like that would be better, especially when it is over 100 degrees outside.

 

[2021 LC200]

I think that I will switch to 5W-30. It seems like that would be better, especially when it is over 100 degrees outside.

Consider the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum which happens to be affordable as well. I am impressed how transparent (natural gas based) the oil is and how noticeable smoother the 3UR-FE is running at initial start up.

 

[04UZJ100]

Consider the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum which happens to be affordable as well. I am impressed how transparent (natural gas based) the oil is and how noticeable smoother the 3UR-FE is running at initial start up.

Tell me about this natural gas based oil and what that means?????

how’s the koolaid?

 

[2021 LC200]

Tell me about this natural gas based oil and what that means?????

how’s the koolaid?

It is based on shorter chain hydro carbons and transparent looking condensate vs oil based. It will likely keep the engine cleaner, however the good reviews of it by experts and the relative low cost per gallon are all good enough for me.

 

[185]

Is vibration one of the ways you'd test an engine for startup or other wear?

No such thing officially. However the reason i bring this up, is myself and others always claim to "feel" the motor feel smoother when different oil brands or weights.

The appreciable ways to test engine wear would teardowns or trend analysis.

 

[185]

It's not a freezing temperature or SAE threshold per say. As with many things, it's a degree of. The lowest viscosity oil will have the best chance to flow to the critical bearings fastest. So instead of 5 cranks, there may be meaningful flow and pressure at the bearings in 3 cranks.



Stay with Toyota's recommendation unless you have a significant use case or live in an atypical climate.

I agree, if you are not an enthusiast and want to just enjoy the motor simply follow the owners manual recommendations based on what style of driving you meet. Most probably will end up following the severe schedule at 5k/6 months and will enjoy their rig for decades even with 0w20. Oil related failures on these motors in general are a rounding error at most.

That being said, at 0F you can try 0wXX all the way to 15WXX and the motor and its positive displacement oil pump should be providing adequate lubrication provided the oil is following the j300 rating. Now as I mentioned earlier, without relying on that data, if we look at the global Toyota manual for engine builder set guidelines, toyota recommends that 15w should only be used when ambient if above 10F, while 5w30 is the defacto all temperature champion for those seeking a bit more wear protection from 0w20 without joining club thick.

 

[04UZJ100]

It is based on shorter chain hydro carbons and transparent looking condensate vs oil based. It will likely keep the engine cleaner, however the good reviews of it by experts and the relative low cost per gallon are all good enough for me.

Based on shorter chain hydrocarbons!?!?

To meet flash point, viscosity, and temperature ratings of 5W30, the organic hydrocarbon length cannot differ a significant amount, period.

This. Is. Snake. Oil.

 

[2021 LC200]

While i think this is not as scientific as the motor oil geek, Amsoil Signature Series 5W-30 100% synthetic motor oil seems even better than Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, however price is a lot higher for Amsoil at $132.87 for 16 quarts (with preferred membership pricing for another $20 per year) vs Pennzoil UP at $88.32 for 15 quarts. This is why I went for Pennzoil UP.

 

[2021 LC200]

Based on shorter chain hydrocarbons!?!?

To meet flash point, viscosity, and temperature ratings of 5W30, the organic hydrocarbon length cannot differ a significant amount, period.

This. Is. Snake. Oil.

How can it be snake oil if it tests well and has a good price?

Not discussing additives here or specialty brands which have not been tested and claim the sky.

 

[04UZJ100]

How can it be snake oil if it tests well and has a good price?

Not discussing additives here or specialty brands which have not been tested and claim the sky.

Tests significantly better than Castro? Mobil1? Amsoil? TGMO?

 

[185]

for an engine that simply requires ilsac6 api sn plus license oils, either oil is fine.

Would a deeper dive comparo, and stricter operating requirement benefit with a more robust license or spec oil? Yes

 

[185]

While i think this is not as scientific as the motor oil geek, Amsoil Signature Series 5W-30 100% synthetic motor oil seems even better than Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, however price is a lot higher for Amsoil at $132.87 for 16 quarts (with preferred membership pricing for another $20 per year) vs Pennzoil UP at $88.32 for 15 quarts. This is why I went for Pennzoil UP.

Personally PF farm is great entertainment, but terrible source of oil information and education. I liken it to how select companies have begun filling walmart shelves with the same oil with different branding; Gas truck, hybrid, extended drains, advanced fuel economy etc etc.