Update: 5W-30 & Heavier Recommended RoTW

[bloc]

Resurrector here: If we are sending and trusting Blackstone with their analysis of our oil and it shows adequate TBN, what is to be gained by 5k vs 10k OCI's? Assuming top quality oil and filters.

TBN isn't the whole story, though blackstone would know that.

I know on my rig if I go past around 7500 miles on a change oil consumption goes from practically zero to.. not. There is a marked uptick. I don't know if that's some function of a viscosity threshold, fuel dilution, or what.. but as much attention as I pay to my vehicle it is a repeatable condition. To me that's a sign my change interval should stay under that threshold.

 

[Zill]

Resurrector here: If we are sending and trusting Blackstone with their analysis of our oil and it shows adequate TBN, what is to be gained by 5k vs 10k OCI's? Assuming top quality oil and filters.

Simply put, 10k mile oil changes are not recommended if you want your engine to last a long time. If you look at engines which have 10k OCI’s, the amount of excess varnish and sludge build up in the engine is much higher than 5k OCI engines.

Oil is cheap and much less expensive than a 15-20k engine job. It’s crazy manufactures across the board recommend 10k, and many mechanics rightfully disagree with waiting that long by seeing many gummed up engines as evidence over the past 10-15 years of having these standards.

Remember, most manufacturers only care about getting a car through their Factory warranty period. That’s why they have “lifetime” transmission fluid. What they don’t say is “lifetime” means the “lifetime” of the warranty period lol.

 

[bloc]

Simply put, 10k mile oil changes are not recommended if you want your engine to last a long time. If you look at engines which have 10k OCI’s, the amount of excess varnish and sludge build up in the engine is much higher than 5k OCI engines.

Oil is cheap and much less expensive than a 15-20k engine job. It’s crazy manufactures across the board recommend 10k, and many mechanics rightfully disagree with waiting that long by seeing many gummed up engines as evidence over the past 10-15 years of having these standards.

Remember, most manufacturers only care about getting a car through their Factory warranty period. That’s why they have “lifetime” transmission fluid. What they don’t say is “lifetime” means the “lifetime” of the warranty period lol.

I think it depends on the engine and oil used though. My second TDI VW had 10k OCI using M1 TDT from new, 270k miles on it when I got it, and under the valve cover you'd think it was a new engine. I sold it to a friend at 360k, they drove it to 450k before selling, and to my knowledge it is still on the road at well over 500k.

Yes, a diesel, and an old/reliable one by today's standards, but clearly perfectly happy with 10k OCI long-term.

We all just need to gather the evidence and make a decision that sits right with us. Between what's in the book, works in the rest of the world, what I've seen from engine teardowns online, and even the number being easy to calculate, 5k OCI is perfect for me on my 200.

 

[Zill]

I think it depends on the engine and oil used though. My second TDI VW had 10k OCI using M1 TDT from new, 270k miles on it when I got it, and under the valve cover you'd think it was a new engine. I sold it to a friend at 360k, they drove it to 450k before selling, and to my knowledge it is still on the road at well over 500k.

Yes, a diesel, and an old/reliable one by today's standards, but clearly perfectly happy with 10k OCI long-term.

We all just need to gather the evidence and make a decision that sits right with us. Between what's in the book, works in the rest of the world, what I've seen from engine teardowns online, and even the number being easy to calculate, 5k OCI is perfect for me on my 200.

I do agree in principal, but there’s just really no reason to risk it with the 3UR. They’re very pricy and complex engines to either rebuild/remanufacture/or drop a crate motor due to sludge buildup. Yes, the 3UR is stout, and it most likely won’t be an issue, but if it means we won’t have to open up our engines if we change our oil every 5k, then that’s awesome. The 3UR is known to have some cam tensioner issues due to the valve gum up due to neglected OCI’s.

I hope all of the 200’s on the road make it to 500k, and a big piece of that will be using 5k OCI’s.

 

[bloc]

I do agree in principal, but there’s just really no reason to risk it with the 3UR. They’re very pricy and complex engines to either rebuild/remanufacture/or drop a crate motor due to sludge buildup. Yes, the 3UR is stout, and it most likely won’t be an issue, but if it means we won’t have to open up our engines if we change our oil every 5k, then that’s awesome. The 3UR is known to have some cam tensioner issues due to the valve gum up due to neglected OCI’s.

I hope all of the 200’s on the road make it to 500k, and a big piece of that will be using 5k OCI’s.

Mine has had sporadic cam tensioner issues in the past despite 5k OCI from new, other than the 8k and 7500 that I experimented with a couple years ago. IMO the cam tensioner issue is more a design issue than extended OCIs, though I agree those would make it worse.

While I agree with your reasoning they likely do so, I was just saying the blanket statement that 10k OCI is too far for different manufacturers is neglecting the ability of some designs to do that easily and even extend it further, actually saving money and lowering waste. But yes in the context of the 3UR, I can't see a case for nearly anyone to go that far if they want to keep the vehicle running well long-term.

 

[NoClue]

Here she is. 5800 miles of complete abuse to my 200. Bouncing off the rev limiter, ultra long idle times, towing in elevation, slow crawl wheeling in 100F for hours on end, the list goes on. I don't think these engines give a damn what we put in them, but one analysis is not enough data.

 

[JohnPW]

Completely reasonable point.

Too many here are simply switching viscosities without reason other than "more better". Without a sound reason, such changes may do more harm than good.

The major factor here that there is too little discussion on is prevailing ambient temperature and operating use case of the vehicle. That is what drives oil viscosities, to arrive at the optimal viscosities/pressure for operating temps of the engine.

For those in hotter southern states, closer to lattitudes of the middle east, that could be a compelling reason. But those in North America, in northern states with lower temperatures, but definitely so in winter are doing more harm than good with unnecessarily high oil pressure that results in lost MPG, HP, wear and tear on o-rings and engine seals.

And then there those going for further "goodness" of 5W-40?!?? Sure, maybe racing in the middle east.

Am I correct that 5w-30 is factory spec in Russia? North America isn’t the only cold locale for Land Cruisers, but it is the only place with 0w-20 spec oil.

 

[gaijin]

Am I correct that 5w-30 is factory spec in Russia? North America isn’t the only cold locale for Land Cruisers, but it is the only place with 0w-20 spec oil.

This chart may help you:

HTH

 

[osb40000]

Currently using Mobile 1 5w-30 Extended Performance High Mileage in my new to me 5.7 2011 Sequoia with 156k on the odometer. It has slightly leaky cam towers and I'm told that the prior owner always ran 0w-20, which is one of the reasons I jumped up to 5w-30.

Planning on doing 5k oil changes and will probably just grab the normal Mobile 1 5w-30 High Mileage from Costco when it's on sale moving forward. I live in Northern Utah. It doesn't get super cold here but I also want to minimize wear. I probably only drive ~ 4-5k a year so the thought of running 0w-20 in addition to 5w-30 seems wasteful. Thoughts on running 5w-30 all year?

In the project farm video the Mobile 1 High mileage 5w-30 seemed to do well vs other synthetics, but I don't know how to compare the cold flowability of different oils. I'm probably overthinking all this.

 

[bloc]

I would never run “high mileage” oil in an engine I intend to keep. The seal swellers they often add will reduce rubber density & stiffness and lead to them wearing more quickly.

Also I admit this is opinion, but 156k isn’t at all high mileage for a well-maintained 3UR

 

[32cls6speedmt]

Currently using Mobile 1 5w-30 Extended Performance High Mileage in my new to me 5.7 2011 Sequoia with 156k on the odometer. It has slightly leaky cam towers and I'm told that the prior owner always ran 0w-20, which is one of the reasons I jumped up to 5w-30.

Planning on doing 5k oil changes and will probably just grab the normal Mobile 1 5w-30 High Mileage from Costco when it's on sale moving forward. I live in Northern Utah. It doesn't get super cold here but I also want to minimize wear. I probably only drive ~ 4-5k a year so the thought of running 0w-20 in addition to 5w-30 seems wasteful. Thoughts on running 5w-30 all year?

In the project farm video the Mobile 1 High mileage 5w-30 seemed to do well vs other synthetics, but I don't know how to compare the cold flowability of different oils. I'm probably overthinking all this.

I have a 13 lx with 153k miles. At about 100k miles I made switch to 5w 30 Mobil ep. Quiet the engine down. No leaks. I get oil changed every 6 k miles. Oem filter.

 

[osb40000]

I would never run “high mileage” oil in an engine I intend to keep. The seal swellers they often add will reduce rubber density & stiffness and lead to them wearing more quickly.

Also I admit this is opinion, but 156k isn’t at all high mileage for a well-maintained 3UR

That's very interesting. I appreciate the information. From the car-fax I got it looked like it received regular oil changes, mostly at the dealership of 5,000-6,600 miles. Nothing over 6,600. The cam towers leak, which is why I went with the thicker oil. Now you have me worried I made a mistake throwing the high mileage oil in.

Thoughts on which oil I should run?

 

[Artie]

That's very interesting. I appreciate the information. From the car-fax I got it looked like it received regular oil changes, mostly at the dealership of 5,000-6,600 miles. Nothing over 6,600. The cam towers leak, which is why I went with the thicker oil. Now you have me worried I made a mistake throwing the high mileage oil in.

Thoughts on which oil I should run?

One cycle with the high mileage stuff shouldn’t be enough to swell seals and cause issues.

As for what oil to use… I’ve seen everything from whatever is on sale at Costco to Amsoil Signature Series bandied about on various oil threads on here so the brands may be somewhat arbitrary.

FWIW apparently I hate money so I use Amsoil and send samples to blackstone.

 

[04UZJ100]

One cycle with the high mileage stuff shouldn’t be enough to swell seals and cause issues.

As for what oil to use… I’ve seen everything from whatever is on sale at Costco to Amsoil Signature Series bandied about on various oil threads on here so the brands may be somewhat arbitrary.

FWIW apparently I hate money so I use Amsoil and send samples to blackstone.

It doesn’t matter anyway. 3UR has no seals. It has RTV at all joints.

 

[bloc]

It doesn’t matter anyway. 3UR has no seals. It has RTV at all joints.

The front main seal, oil filter stand and cooler gaskets, valve cover & spark plug tube gaskets would like to have a word.

But I agree with @Artie one oil change with the stuff isn't worth dumping it.

 

[DallasTide]

Thoughts on which oil I should run?

Project Farm did his oil championship series a few years ago. Amsoil and Redline scored the highest, but Pennzoil Ultra Platinum was a very close 3rd place and is about half the cost of the other two. My truck seems to like it.

 

[bloc]

And all of these oils, changed often enough, addressing other things like radiator and valley plate or even cam tensioners/phasers, will see our engines past 400k if you can afford to keep putting fuel into it.

Toyotas are well-known for being easy on the oil.

 

[osb40000]

And all of these oils, changed often enough, addressing other things like radiator and valley plate or even cam tensioners/phasers, will see our engines past 400k if you can afford to keep putting fuel into it.

Toyotas are well-known for being easy on the oil.

Good to know. Looks like I need to do some research into radiator and valley plate, and cam tensioners/phasers. This is my first Toyota 4x4 since my 93' 22RE pickup so I have a lot to learn. I appreciate the info!

 

[chuckd83]

I haven't read through the thread so don't know if this has been posted, but this is from the Service Data Sheet.

 

[04UZJ100]

I haven't read through the thread so don't know if this has been posted, but this is from the Service Data Sheet.

View attachment 3545323

What sheet is this?