Transmission Fluid Hemorrhage

[Bergretter]

Alright, calling all A442F tranny experts. Catastrophic loss of fluid after no downshifting, AT overtemp light, Q converter lockup, engine stall followed by a normal restart, AT temp light extinguishing and driving capabilities on snow road climb (one that had been done many times prior with no incident). Luckily made the drive home prior to pools of ATF fluid departing the bell housing inspection hole at the mating surface to engine. Upon removal of transmission, found torque converter difficult to remove from tranny, which was explained by the bushing fused to the converter sleeve that should be installed in the forward oil pump housing! Surface that once housed the bushing is worn down, as well as s****es on pump gears that indicate some metal departure. Questions for the experts: one, if I replaced torque converter and transmission forward oil pump (front part only), is there much worry of metal elsewhere in the transmission or do you think most if not all particles made their new home in the filter? Two, do you think the shaft that originates from the rear half of the forward oil pump (pump has been split into two parts in the pictures) has heat damage causing the blue color, or was it installed in that condition (tempered) and should be in okay shape to mate to a new forward half of the oil pump. Other concerns with the transmission after this event? Obviously the bushing spinning on the converter caused the forward seal to fail, just not sure why the bushing decided to switch homes, and which event happened first causing the next event to occur (ie overtemp then bushing transfer or visa versa). 1993 FZJ80 1FZ-FE with A442F tranny, 137,000 miles. If you guys think I need to go with a new unit or rebuild, please express your likes/dislikes for sourcing.
Thanks for your time.

 

[Bergretter]

I guess no one has seen this problem before? Any shop guys out there with experience in this area? Thanks guys, and have a great Christmas.

 

[bsmart82]

I'm not a transmission expert, but I would recommend a full tear down and inspection at least.

 

[Bergretter]

Full teardown probably the wisest course of action. Anyone else with ideas? Shop contacts you would recommend for more information?

Thanks again.

 

[Luke111]

My 80 is at Slee for the V8 conversion, so engine and transmission will be for sale if you need a replacement. Both have zero leaks as i had all the seals replaced as part of PM..

Lou

 

[Bergretter]

Great, thanks Lou. May be heading in that direction, just waiting on advice from a shop and some buddies to see if I can salvage what I have. Price of a new torque converter and front pump assembly will run around $1200 (+!) so may be more cost effective to buy used tranny. When you get to it, could you PM me a price you would be asking for your transmission with/without transfer plus any idea of shipping costs if possible. Anyone else in this deep with their A442F? Thanks.

Joel

 

[greentruck]

$1200 in parts, plus labor, and you still won't be sure whether it's a ticking time bomb. I'd say go with good used, although the shipping on that ain't gonna be cheap, either. That's one place where the parts cost is gonna save a little, because that's nowhere near the mass of a complete tranny. Labor on just reinstalling the complete tranny is likely a lot less than adding a tear down to it, though.

I'd say this comes down to how sharp the pencil is for each option. I'd even say if the complete tranny comes close but doesn't beat the parts price plus install to go for the whole enchilada for the peace of mind factor.

 

[Bergretter]

It's that ticking time bomb thing that's got me worried. Labor is not an issue as I took the monster out and feel it is no issue going back in with the FSM at my side. Just fishing for folks that may have seen this issue, have removed the front transmission pump, or have had some metal contamination in this unit. Transmission was still shifting like a dream even on that last drive down the hill and into my garage, so I'm very hesitant of going to a used tranny swap too early as I may simply be starting over with new problems.

 

[greentruck]

Yep, good transmissions are hard to find, but you've got an offer already, so good to know they're out there. This is the earlier "bus" transmission IIRC. I don't know anything except they've got a rep as pretty bulletproof.

On the other hand, that's a very odd failure. I can't say for sure, but my opinion is the "bluing" on the shaft is heat induced. Just doesn't look like it's factory. Which makes sense, given the wandering bushing. But you heard nothing out of the ordinary before things went south?

 

[Luke111]

Great, thanks Lou. May be heading in that direction, just waiting on advice from a shop and some buddies to see if I can salvage what I have. Price of a new torque converter and front pump assembly will run around $1200 (+!) so may be more cost effective to buy used tranny. When you get to it, could you PM me a price you would be asking for your transmission with/without transfer plus any idea of shipping costs if possible. Anyone else in this deep with their A442F? Thanks. Joel

Joel, it's my understanding they will use my transfer case in the conversion but I'll check withstand Christo Slee and let you know..and I can check shipping cost but will need your zip.. I won't be able to talk to him until Monday

Lou

 

[scottryana]

Just as a heads up, you have a different transmission and he would also require a tcu.

Posted via IH8MUD app

 

[OGBeno]

Actually, an A343F will not work without significant modification since the tranny electrical components are internal to the engine ECU.

He will need an A442F regardless of what he does.

 

[wrongway around]

Not much info about the a442f transmissions to be had it seems, blueing I've seen before and reused after being rebuilt. Your t/c rebuilder should be able to answer the t/c question ,and your pump if its availible to view too. How is the end play in the crank that can bung things up too. Wheelingnoob and longbow have used a place in the states for a t/c rebuilder with good results and a big plus they're reasonably priced and reputable, ateb also has used them with favorable results. If it is a re&re make sure its a Gasser model a442f not for a diesel as well specific from cruise and non cruise models . Not much help ,but good luck.

 

[Luke111]

Just as a heads up, you have a different transmission and he would also require a tcu. Posted via IH8MUD app

I'm always getting schooled by Ryan and Beno
Hahaha

Lou

 

[Bergretter]

Yeah, thanks for the offer, Lou, but after I did some research on the years differences to remind me when the transmission model changed I realized that late '95 on is the newer unit. You can say just a bit frustrated since this is a very bombproof tranny by reputation and I drive it carefully as well as having low mileage. One idea I have is that the bushing may have attached itself to the converter when the transmission overtemped, and my initial symptom while climbing the snow road was the vehicle bogging down, as in not downshifting as it should. So, it may all have been caused by a poorly adjusted kickdown cable......or the bogging was caused by the internal transmission failure. Unfortunately I did not check the cable adjustment prior to disassembly and transmission removal. Big picture, I am willing to buy a new front oil pump (since old one has ruined bushing race), and torque converter, BUT would like reputable source to give advice on condition of rest of transmission. I know this is most likely impossible without a complete go through, but worth throwing out there!

 

[scottryana]

Unless he runs standalone tcu

Actually, an A343F will not work without significant modification since the tranny electrical components are internal to the engine ECU.

He will need an A442F regardless of what he does.

Sent from my C6806 using IH8MUD Forum mobile app

 

[86tuning]

Unless he runs standalone tcu

Or the complete engine ecu and wiring harness if its different, ASSuming there's a 1fz in the truck. And the engine ecu and wiring would be different for certain because one is OBDII and the older one is not?

Best repair would be to find a used a442 and drop it in, unless the used trans is an extreme high miler.

 

[scottryana]

Nope the non OBDII engine can't use the other computer. But you could take the trans off and run it on the tcu from wholesale. But I think the real plan need to be finding a 442. Lol

Sent from my C6806 using IH8MUD Forum mobile app

 

[86tuning]

Nope the non OBDII engine can't use the other computer. But you could take the trans off and run it on the tcu from wholesale. But I think the real plan need to be finding a 442. Lol

Sent from my C6806 using IH8MUD Forum mobile app

Right. MAF sensor and o2 sensors and other stuff

 

[MoGas]

'93-'94 only on that particular transmission. If I recall correctly, the pump sucks fluid up through the filter first, so there is likely trash throughout the tranny. Lots of little offices in there to get particles in. I would try to find a donor or a very reputable shop. The good thing is that the A442 is known for being an extremely robust transmission. The bad thing is that since it is such a robust tranny, and a 2 year only model, not many transmission shops have seen them.

There is a really great transmission rebuild thread in the 80 FAQ section. I believe it is for an A440, but it would give you a general idea.