Toyota 3B Engine failure and knocking noise (1 Viewer)

[OGBeno]

Thanks for posting your results. So it looks like cylinders 1 and 2 are firing but 3 and 4 may not be. But cylinder 3 is clearly still getting fuel. Was there fuel at cylinder 4? I assume your 3B is from Canada and has an in-line pump - I have no experience with these, but in general it's very rare for injection pumps to be problematic. Although I have my doubts that two adjacent injectors suddenly went bad, it's easy to take them out and get them checked.

I have no experience of turbocharged 3Bs and am more familiar with the later non-Landcruiser B engines, so I defer to those who have more direct knowledge - perhaps broken crankshafts are some peculiarity of turbocharged 3Bs. But when Toyota turned the 3B into the turbocharged 13B-T, they reinforced the pistons, con-rods and cylinder heads (by way of being direct injection, they never turbocharged an indirect injection B engine like the 3B). The one thing they left alone was the cranshaft (late 1984 and on 3Bs and 13B-Ts have the same crankshaft). So it would seem surprising if 3Bs had a weakness for breaking cranks when turbocharged. However, empirical evidence may contradict this. There was one. let's say 'famous' turbo 3B rebuild on this site which appeared to be very well executed but was underlain by some very questionable post-mortem and engine building practices. That ended, if I remember correctly, in a broken crankshaft, and that may be fresh in people's minds.

Pulling the sump pan off is not a fun job with the engine in place, and it will really only tell you if the crank has snapped or if there is a smashed piston. Taking the cylinder head off is a more conventional alternative. It's a bit more work but will show you the valvetrain, pistons and, by turning the engine over with a bar or tapping the piston crowns with a hammer hamdle, whether all the pistons are connected to the crank. It's your choice though.

EO

Are you talking about me?

 

[duncanrm]

Although I have my doubts that two adjacent injectors suddenly went bad, it's easy to take them out and get them checked.

I agree.. its more likely that the headgasket has failed between 3 and 4.

 

[FJBen]

Are you talking about me?

You’re famous!

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

The weakness when 3Bs are turbocharged is due to the fact it’s an IDI engine, higher compression, upped fuel, possibly advanced timing. Greater peak pressures and higher forces on everything.

Sure, but looking at Toyota's own engine development, the crank would not appear to be the weak link.

Also, I wonder if peak pressures in a turbo 3B would be higher - it's still using a lower pressure IDI pump and a pre-combustion chamber. The DI engine has significantly higher injection pressure and combustion right on the piston crown which I imagine gives more momentary ignition and a higher peak pressure; hence the higher torque in a 13B compared to a 3B. I gues it depends on the fuelling of the 3B pump though.

Are you talking about me?

Hmm, the name does ring a bell... but can't be sure.

I agree.. its more likely that the headgasket has failed between 3 and 4.

I think these old 3Bs run graphite head gaskets so definitely possible.

For the OP, a slow and cautious approach would be to get the injectors serviced and compression test the engine. Removing the sump pan will tell you if the engine is a write off without spending any money. Pulling off the cylinder head will likey tell you the whole story but will leave you needing to partially rebuild the engine - which would be frustrating if it's just a stuck injector. But I think it will be more than that...

 

[bj70bc]

oil pan is easy on the 3b, and you can use fipg so you dont have to order anything else
but yes, upon further diagnosis it would seem to be injection related.
If you still have an original head gasket it will be shortly behind this in the failure department with a turbo.
Yes.... if you take the head off there will be other things you will be forced to do $$

 

[bumi1048]

Thanks for posting your results. So it looks like cylinders 1 and 2 are firing but 3 and 4 may not be. But cylinder 3 is clearly still getting fuel. Was there fuel at cylinder 4? I assume your 3B is from Canada and has an in-line pump - I have no experience with these, but in general it's very rare for injection pumps to be problematic. Although I have my doubts that two adjacent injectors suddenly went bad, it's easy to take them out and get them checked.

I have no experience of turbocharged 3Bs and am more familiar with the later non-Landcruiser B engines, so I defer to those who have more direct knowledge - perhaps broken crankshafts are some peculiarity of turbocharged 3Bs. But when Toyota turned the 3B into the turbocharged 13B-T, they reinforced the pistons, con-rods and cylinder heads (by way of being direct injection, they never turbocharged an indirect injection B engine like the 3B). The one thing they left alone was the cranshaft (late 1984 and on 3Bs and 13B-Ts have the same crankshaft). So it would seem surprising if 3Bs had a weakness for breaking cranks when turbocharged. However, empirical evidence may contradict this. There was one. let's say 'famous' turbo 3B rebuild on this site which appeared to be very well executed but was underlain by some very questionable post-mortem and engine building practices. That ended, if I remember correctly, in a broken crankshaft, and that may be fresh in people's minds.

Pulling the sump pan off is not a fun job with the engine in place, and it will really only tell you if the crank has snapped or if there is a smashed piston. Taking the cylinder head off is a more conventional alternative. It's a bit more work but will show you the valvetrain, pistons and, by turning the engine over with a bar or tapping the piston crowns with a hammer hamdle, whether all the pistons are connected to the crank. It's your choice though.

EO

Thanks EO and to everybody else who gave their 2 cents.

I have pulled the injectors in question and plan to take them to a shop. If that comes up with nothing, then I plan to take the truck to someone who knows a thing or two and work on it with them to check out the internals. Either way this has been very helpful, and I appreciate all the advice I recieved. If the thread is not long dead by the time I firgure it all out, I may provide an update.

Bumi

 

[iliketrucks]

How did things work out for you?

 

[simonliew]

Have you take the valve cover off?
Take valve cover off and turn or crank the engine to see if the rocker arms on rear 2 cylinders are moving,this sound like the camshaft snapped in half,happened to one of my customer’s bj42

 

[simonliew]

And 3B injectors rarely fail

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Have you take the valve cover off?
Take valve cover off and turn or crank the engine to see if the rocker arms on rear 2 cylinders are moving,this sound like the camshaft snapped in half,happened to one of my customer’s bj42

Interesting. I know camshaft bearings are a weak point on the B engines, did you get to look over the engine and see if bearing failure was the cause?

 

[simonliew]

Interesting. I know camshaft bearings are a weak point on the B engines, did you get to look over the engine and see if bearing failure was the cause?

i havent havt time to take the engine apart yet,i'm sure the engine is still good despite has been sitting for 15 yrs inside,i drove it into my shop bofore i found the broken camshaft,ive another engine from my bj42 rockrawler that i rolled and silly me started it right after we put it right side up and it run away because engine oil had got into the intake manifold,and its running a bit rought,dont know what can be wrong after a 3B run away,bent crank,rods or valves???hoping to make one good engine out of the 2.
At that time customer was driving across canada fron vancouver to toronto and the camshaft broke in half at highway speed,happened another customer had bought 2 rebuilt engines from enns toyota and i dropped one of the engine in and the guy went on his way to toronto,

 

[iliketrucks]

I've always hoped that the 3B having a throttle body would help limit the damage of a runaway

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

i havent havt time to take the engine apart yet,i'm sure the engine is still good despite has been sitting for 15 yrs inside,i drove it into my shop bofore i found the broken camshaft,ive another engine from my bj42 rockrawler that i rolled and silly me started it right after we put it right side up and it run away because engine oil had got into the intake manifold,and its running a bit rought,dont know what can be wrong after a 3B run away,bent crank,rods or valves???hoping to make one good engine out of the 2.
At that time customer was driving across canada fron vancouver to toronto and the camshaft broke in half at highway speed,happened another customer had bought 2 rebuilt engines from enns toyota and i dropped one of the engine in and the guy went on his way to toronto,

I would guess valves would begin to float and may get bent. Hopefully nothing more than that.

I've always hoped that the 3B having a throttle body would help limit the damage of a runaway

I think every cowboy takes the TB off when they but their turbo on.

 

[bj70bc]

nope, plates still on mine

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Fairly novice at these kinds of things. Recently got my hands on an 83 BJ land cruiser (Toyotas 3B Diesel engine). Got it for a good price so i new it’d come with baggage. Test drive was uneventful so I said why not and was buying from a mechanic. Been driving it around as my daily for the past month with no serious issue. Well, yesterday I get the ominous engine knocking noise and despaired over what this could mean until about a minute later, complete engine failure. It was not running hot and oil was not low (though looks like it’s been cycled through the engine a few too many times). Also, tried starting it this morning and black exhaust came out. I understand this could mean an issue with the internal combustion components but is there anything I can do diagnostically to rule out “easy” fixes before I jump to getting engine rebuilt/ replaced or scrap the whole thing? Thanks in advanceView attachment 3465312View attachment 3465313

Is it just me or is the silicone coupler from airbox to turbo not connected/sealed properly?

 

[bj70bc]

not even clamped.....
so def no