Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (3 Viewers)

[Nothinghead]

IMO for even a small 22' travel trailer, there is no way I wouldn't run a WD hitch for that extra measure and margin of safety. From my experience with 20' to 28' travel trailers, the WD hitch always makes for a better handling and more stable rig. Better ride comfort with less porpoising.

Think about the $100,000+ of your gear barrelling down the highway, not to mention the priceless cargo of family that you are also probably hauling. For the few hundred dollars that a WD hitch costs and the extra 5 minutes of hooking up it seems like a no-brainer to use WD with a heavy travel trailer.

 

[skrypj]

Maybe for a 6500 lbs trailer. Most people on here with LCs think that an 6500 lbs trailer is heavy.

Stability wise, im extremely comfortable with my 5500 lb trailer. The LX handles it no problem, better than my 157" wheelbase max tow F150 in some ways.

But power wise I wouldnt wanna go much bigger. Even though I have only owned it a year, I have already been in multiple situations where mine was struggling to do much more than 55mph due to head winds and high temperatures. Sure I could floor it and run >60 mph but it was already uncomfortable enough doing 55 in 3rd and 4th gear spinning >3000 rpm. I have towed in worse conditions that my LX has seen so far, particularly in WY. Pulling into a 40+ mph headwind on a 90+ degree day, sprinkle some big grades and there, and it would crush the 5.7L.

 

[skrypj]

You can certainly get away without using a WDH, just as you can get away without using countless other safety-enhancing features. But in an emergency situation, you'll want the odds stacked in your favour.

Europe and Australia are not directly comparable to North America. They have much lower speed limits (especially when towing) and they have trailers that are frequently designed differently (for example, axles shifted further forward to lower tongue weight, utilizing surge brakes, etc.).

For what it's worth, my Andersen WDH hitch does not affect maneuvering in any way whatsoever.

When I have been in Europe(the Netherlands mostly), all the people I've seen towing caravans are going, no joke, like 45-50 mph. The speed limits are already pretty low on their freeways, and I was passing them at a decent speed delta.

Its one thing when it takes a couple hours to drive across your country(I went from Amsterdam to Njimegen), its another when I can't even get out of my state in <6 hours in some cases.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Stability wise, im extremely comfortable with my 5500 lb trailer. The LX handles it no problem, better than my 157" wheelbase max tow F150 in some ways.

But power wise I wouldnt wanna go much bigger. Even though I have only owned it a year, I have already been in multiple situations where mine was struggling to do much more than 55mph due to head winds and high temperatures. Sure I could floor it and run >60 mph but it was already uncomfortable enough doing 55 in 3rd and 4th gear spinning >3000 rpm. I have towed in worse conditions that my LX has seen so far, particularly in WY. Pulling into a 40+ mph headwind on a 90+ degree day, sprinkle some big grades and there, and it would crush the 5.7L.

I've experienced similar situations.

The most "difficult" time I've had towing was going up a very, very steep highway-speed hill going west out of Kelowna, BC. It climbs from 1600ft to 5400ft elevation in 25 miles. (Edit: according to some elevation-measuring sites, this road has grades as steep as 16% in some spots.) With a similarly equipped, 5500lb trailer, keeping 110kph (~68mph) is very, very difficult. Speed limit is 120kph there if I remember correctly. Redline all the way, drinking fuel at astronomical rates (about a 1/4 tank for that 25 mile stretch). This is where some forced induction would make all the difference.

 

[coleAK]

I've experienced similar situations.

The most "difficult" time I've had towing was going up a very, very steep highway-speed hill going west out of Kelowna, BC. It climbs from 1600ft to 5400ft elevation in 25 miles. With a similarly equipped, 5500lb trailer, keeping 110kph (~68mph) is very, very difficult. Speed limit is 120kph there if I remember correctly. Redline all the way, drinking fuel at astronomical rates (about a 1/4 tank for that 25 mile stretch). This is where some forced induction would make all the difference.

Coming out of Homer AK it is a 700’ climb in 1.5 miles. Going ~35 mph I burn 2-3 gallons of gas.

 

[skrypj]

I've experienced similar situations.

The most "difficult" time I've had towing was going up a very, very steep highway-speed hill going west out of Kelowna, BC. It climbs from 1600ft to 5400ft elevation in 25 miles. With a similarly equipped, 5500lb trailer, keeping 110kph (~68mph) is very, very difficult. Speed limit is 120kph there if I remember correctly. Redline all the way, drinking fuel at astronomical rates (about a 1/4 tank for that 25 mile stretch). This is where some forced induction would make all the difference.

Coming back from West Yellowstone, MT last year on I-15, I hit a couple grades where I had my foot buried and was only able to muster around 40-45 mph. 6500' and 90F+ temps absolutely kills the output of the motor. Everything stayed cool, but the air density is so low in those conditions it just isnt making the power.

Conversely, I pulled Cajon Pass out of San Bernadino last spring when it was like 70*F and it barely struggled. 65mph was no problem the whole way up.

Fun chart I found and editted on engineering toolbox. 101kpa is standard pressure. 80 kpa is the normal pressure at 6500'. Threw in Sea level at 120F for death valley or something like that.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Yup, hot ambient air temps make things that much worse. I've felt that, too.

 

[TeCKis300]

In my travels, Kingsbury grade east of Lake Tahoe takes the cake. 11 miles of single lane switchbacks, the most severe of which is 1900' climb over 6 miles, to an elevation of 7500 ft. Several miles at 5-10% grades, with a section at 10-15% grade. RVs not recommended, and generally take a more northern route to avoid this grade.

Towing 8000lbs with parts slogging 2nd gear full throttle at 35mph.

More power could help, but the other reality is that most every other vehicle is slogging it too. There's very few turnouts on that route and I did take one for the vehicles behind me to pass.

They didn't because they couldn't muster anymore power either.

The 200-series needs no excuses and will do the deed. Have to remember it's a naturally aspirated motor so keeping RPMs in the mid-range is only accessing just over half the potential HP the motor can make.

A turbo motor like an EcoBoost makes better mid-range power, but then again I have no want for an EB with the issues they see. Turbo, supercharged, and diesel motors are working harder with more combustion pressure and heat, needing excess fuel for cooling to stave off detonation, even if it feels like they work less hard with lower RPM.

It's a Toyota, let her spin.

 

[coleAK]

In my travels, Kingsbury grade east of Lake Tahoe takes the cake. 11 miles of single lane switchbacks, the most severe of which is 1900' climb over 6 miles, to an elevation of 7500 ft. Several miles at 5-10% grades, with a section at 10-15% grade. RVs not recommended, and generally take a more northern route to avoid this grade.

Towing 8000lbs with parts slogging 2nd gear full throttle at 35mph.

More power could help, but the other reality is that most every other vehicle is slogging it too. There's very few turnouts on that route and I did take one for the vehicles behind me to pass.

They didn't because they couldn't muster anymore power either.

The 200-series needs no excuses and will do the deed. Have to remember it's a naturally aspirated motor so keeping RPMs in the mid-range is only accessing just over half the potential HP the motor can make.

A turbo motor like an EcoBoost makes better mid-range power, but then again I have no want for an EB with the issues they see. Turbo's motors are working harder with more combustion pressure and heat, needing excess fuel for cooling to stave off detonation, even if it feels like they work less hard with lower RPM.

I grew up on the top of kingsbury. In 22 years living up there I don’t think I ever saw a camper going close to the speed limit up or down.

 

[skrypj]

In my travels, Kingsbury grade east of Lake Tahoe takes the cake. 11 miles of single lane switchbacks, the most severe of which is 1900' climb over 6 miles, to an elevation of 7500 ft. Several miles at 5-10% grades, with a section at 10-15% grade. RVs not recommended, and generally take a more northern route to avoid this grade.

Towing 8000lbs with parts slogging 2nd gear full throttle at 35mph.

More power could help, but the other reality is that most every other vehicle is slogging it too. There's very few turnouts on that route and I did take one for the vehicles behind me to pass.

They didn't because they couldn't muster anymore power either.

The 200-series needs no excuses and will do the deed. Have to remember it's a naturally aspirated motor so keeping RPMs in the mid-range is only accessing just over half the potential HP the motor can make.

A turbo motor like an EcoBoost makes better mid-range power, but then again I have no want for an EB with the issues they see. Turbo, supercharged, and diesel motors are working harder with more combustion pressure and heat, needing excess fuel for cooling to stave off detonation, even if it feels like they work less hard with lower RPM.

It's a Toyota, let her spin.

Sounds like Parowan, UT to Cedar Breaks National Monument. 6100' to 10,500' in 12.9 miles, but almost 3000' of it is in the last 6.5 miles. I havent tried it in my LX. My F150 had no issues with power but it was in the 230's coolant temps the entire climb, since the radiator came out of a minivan, even though we were only doing like 25-30 mph.

The other one that I think could be a monster is towing from Ouray into the San Juans. I haven't towed it, but I have driven it a few times.

Problem is, you can't always let it spin if there isnt another gear to grab. When I got stuck at 40-45 mph it was because I couldnt downshift another gear and was stuck around 3800-4000.

 

[TeCKis300]

Problem is, you can't always let it spin if there isnt another gear to grab. When I got stuck at 40-45 mph it was because I couldnt downshift another gear and was stuck around 3800-4000.

I'm curious about this last part as you have an 8-speed.

Prior to regearing with 33s, there were times I was stuck in gear at elevations of 5,000' and up without enough power to get into the next gear in the 6-speed. Particularly the wide 2-3 shift, being stuck around 40mph. That hole went away with re-gearing.

The 8-speed has tighter ratios and plenty of gearing down low which I would think would help avoid this situation? Where you can downshift to get into and stay in the meaty part of the powerband?

 

[2021 LC200]

Yeah, also surprised there is a “lack of gears to grab”. With the 8 speed I tow in S6 and in the mountains will sometimes opt to go to S4 or S3 to force a sweet spot without shifting back and forth. I can imagine on real steep stuff one could go to S2 or even S1. Obviously the same applies going downhill. I am pretty sure the 6 speed will have enough choice to make it work just fine as well. I remember in the old days we had the manual 4 speeds and before that even 3 speeds. You always can go a gead down to as low as 1…

 

[Artie]

Yeah, also surprised there is a “lack of gears to grab”. With the 8 speed I tow in S6 and in the mountains will sometimes opt to go to S4 or S3 to force a sweet spot without shifting back and forth. I can imagine on real steep stuff one could go to S2 or even S1. Obviously the same applies going downhill. I am pretty sure the 6 speed will have enough choice to make it work just fine as well. I remember in the old days we had the manual 4 speeds and before that even 3 speeds. You always can go a gead down to as low as 1…

You will set torque converter temp records going to S1, S2 can still force the converter to lock so make that your limit.

The power hole sucks, I’m aiming at a regear to address this issue as well.

 

[linuxgod]

You will set torque converter temp records going to S1, S2 can still force the converter to lock so make that your limit.

The power hole sucks, I’m aiming at a regear to address this issue as well.

Regearing did help but the hole is still there for you to manage.

Before regearing I found myself a few times being forced to slow down behind a truck in the middle lane going on the interstate through the mountains in CO and not being able to accelerate foot on the floor because 1st was too high to downshift and 2nd too low to do anything but hold speed, or 2nd too high and 3rd too low with the trailer attached. The hole is still there on 4.88s but the extra gear helps you eventually be able to accelerate.

 

[skrypj]

I'm curious about this last part as you have an 8-speed.

Prior to regearing with 33s, there were times I was stuck in gear at elevations of 5,000' and up without enough power to get into the next gear in the 6-speed. Particularly the wide 2-3 shift, being stuck around 40mph. That hole went away with re-gearing.

The 8-speed has tighter ratios and plenty of gearing down low which I would think would help avoid this situation? Where you can downshift to get into and stay in the meaty part of the powerband?

The gap from 3rd to 2nd is considerable. I think what happened was I was slowing down in 3rd, and at 55mph I would have been spinning ~3400 rpm in 3rd, not counting torque converter slip. To jump to second would have put me at 5200 rpm not counting slip and it just wouldnt do it. It refused to downshift. It wasnt until I dropped down into the 40's that it allowed the 2nd gear downshift, if I remember right, and at that point I was spinning ~4200 rpm. So still not making anywhere near peak power.

3400 RPM on a 95F day at 6500' would have put me around 190 hp trying to move ~13,000 lbs up a 7% grade.

Gears would help, but 3.91's would still have only put me at 4000 rpm in 3rd at 55mph and then 2nd is completely off the table. This is why I keep debating 4.10's. That makes 3rd a lot deeper and also opens up 7th for use while towing. Im not sure 3.91's would allow 7th to be utilized.

 

[Sandroad]

Hey guys, picked up a new camper and even tho it's 4500 dry the tongue weight is more than I'm used to in this truck.

I'd like to gauge the tongue weight so I can redistribute weight over the axles if necessary.

Does anyone have a tongue weight scale they like?

Thanks in advance!

I have a Sherline scale I bought a few years ago and it works well. I’m the moderator of an RV forum and have a standing offer there to loan it out to anyone willing to pay shipping both ways. It’s been well traveled, including to Mud members. Unfortunately the now obscenely high cost of shipping by individuals has pretty much ended interest in its use. Shipping costs have more than doubled since I bought it and I would be afraid to even ask what it would cost to ship now. In any event, I do still use it before setting out on long trips to make sure I’m loaded right.

https://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-1000-Trailer-Tongue/dp/B007REJTGI

 

[Catskills]

I have a Sherline scale I bought a few years ago and it works well. I’m the moderator of an RV forum and have a standing offer there to loan it out to anyone willing to pay shipping both ways. It’s been well traveled, including to Mud members. Unfortunately the now obscenely high cost of shipping by individuals has pretty much ended interest in its use. Shipping costs have more than doubled since I bought it and I would be afraid to even ask what it would cost to ship now. In any event, I do still use it before setting out on long trips to make sure I’m loaded right.

https://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-1000-Trailer-Tongue/dp/B007REJTGI

Thank you! That's really kind -- and trusting -- of you! Yeah, I bet it's not worth shipping at this point.

I have to run an errand with the rig prior my first real trip next month so I'm gonna try to find a scale. The gear I carry will be really consistent so I think if I can weigh it once I should be good.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Stability wise, im extremely comfortable with my 5500 lb trailer. The LX handles it no problem, better than my 157" wheelbase max tow F150 in some ways.

But power wise I wouldnt wanna go much bigger. Even though I have only owned it a year, I have already been in multiple situations where mine was struggling to do much more than 55mph due to head winds and high temperatures. Sure I could floor it and run >60 mph but it was already uncomfortable enough doing 55 in 3rd and 4th gear spinning >3000 rpm. I have towed in worse conditions that my LX has seen so far, particularly in WY. Pulling into a 40+ mph headwind on a 90+ degree day, sprinkle some big grades and there, and it would crush the 5.7L.

right, 5500 is not much. Wind resistance also makes a huge difference at speed. Towing a small piece of equipment like a tractor, or a 30ft RV are much different things. 3000 rpm for sustained times is nothing really, no harm done to anything, and in fact it is better to be at a higher RPM and lower engine load. I used to tow our 13k rv in my 6.0 Vortec at 3000+ sustained at 65mph, for long periods at a time. Sometimes nearly all day. Truck still runs like a sewing machine today, and the 3uz would be no different.

I have seen semi truck overturned in WY due to the wind. In those conditions no truck will be stable, contrary to what so will say here.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Well I wouldn't want to go much heavier than what I have which is approx. 5500lb but I'm relatively inexperienced only having done significant towing on my current trailer. As is, I get 10mpg. A heavier trailer would only make that aspect worse. I just hate stopping for gas every 200 miles.

yep I wish my LX570 had a bigger tank, 30 gallon would be killer. My friend with a 19 Tundra has to stop dead at 200 miles aswell. 200 is a good stopping point anyway......to get a drink, piss, and stretch legs out, so there is that. My GMC has a 66 gallon tank, but have never went from full to empty without stopping for some reason.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

yep I wish my LX570 had a bigger tank, 30 gallon would be killer. My friend with a 19 Tundra has to stop dead at 200 miles aswell. 200 is a good stopping point anyway......to get a drink, piss, and stretch legs out, so there is that. My GMC has a 66 gallon tank, but have never went from full to empty without stopping for some reason.

I was railing at stopping for gas approx. every 200 miles and just happened to mention that there's such a thing called a LRA extra 12.5 gallon tank.
ME: "Gee honey wouldn't it be great if we got another 100 miles?"
HER: "Ummm well I usually have to pee by then anyway".

Poof goes the LRA.