Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (3 Viewers)

[hygge]

Two weekends in on my 2021 Overland Taxa Mantis and no complaints.

The 200 has been pulling the travel trailer with ease and like everyone on the forums understands - it tows with thirst!

I was really impressed by the ability of the 200 to pull the 4000-ish pound trailer up all the hills at Pipestone OHV out here in Montana near Butte.

I was even able to take it up to the Ringing Rocks (google this thing, its pretty cool), which was pretty impressive for a 19' long trailer on bumpy terrain.

Not having to get reservations or think too far ahead about where to camp was a major driver for me getting this trailer in the Overland version vs a more traditional trailer. We'll see how it goes this summer.

 

[linuxgod]

They s

My 22BHS had been morphed to the 23BHS. it’s still well in the range of a 200 series

https://media.rvusa.com/library/brochure_creekside.pdf

Maybe the LX handles the weight better, but my Lance comes in at 6000# GVWR with a tongue weight of about 900# and it's definitely near the top end of what the LC can safely pull, mainly due to the TW. The 23BHS TW looks pretty low, I'm very curious what your real world TW is

 

[coleAK]

Maybe the LX handles the weight better, but my Lance comes in at 6000# GVWR with a tongue weight of about 900# and it's definitely near the top end of what the LC can safely pull, mainly due to the TW. The 23BHS TW looks pretty low, I'm very curious what your real world TW is

I’ve had it on scales loaded it is ~6800-7000 lbs and usually with another at least 600-800+ lbs in the LX. My tongue weight is ~850-900+ lbs depending on how full my propane tanks and how much heavy things I have loaded in the front, and I can have another 100lbs of gear in the back of the LX. I’ve got lots of miles on crappy Alaska roads and It does just fine.

I will add it took me a summer to get the WD set up correct. I’m using a basic Husky round bar WD hitch with #1200 bars. Had a Anderson (from my AS) before it and it just didn’t work.

AHC in the LX is a pretty nice upgrade for towing, variable height, leveling.

 

[NKP Garage]

Maybe the LX handles the weight better, but my Lance comes in at 6000# GVWR with a tongue weight of about 900# and it's definitely near the top end of what the LC can safely pull, mainly due to the TW. The 23BHS TW looks pretty low, I'm very curious what your real world TW is

From my experience with the LC200 and LX570, the LX definitely tows better. AHC keeps all the suspension geometry in check and the ride stays smooth and stable.

Apart from that, are you sure you are at only 900lbs of tongue weight? It may be worth measuring to confirm. Even 900lbs of tongue weight is too much for your setup, you should be closer to 650-700lbs of tongue weight on a 6000lbs setup. Considering you have some gear in the truck, a few people, etc, that very quickly puts you over weight limit and likely compressing your suspension beyond what it was designed for.

Grab a cheap tongue scale and measure to see where your weight actually is without the trailer attached to your hitch, and adjust from there to get it closer to that 650-700lbs mark:

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[linuxgod]

From my experience with the LC200 and LX570, the LX definitely tows better. AHC keeps all the suspension geometry in check and the ride stays smooth and stable.

Apart from that, are you sure you are at only 900lbs of tongue weight? It may be worth measuring to confirm. Even 900lbs of tongue weight is too much for your setup, you should be closer to 650-700lbs of tongue weight on a 6000lbs setup. Considering you have some gear in the truck, a few people, etc, that very quickly puts you over weight limit and likely compressing your suspension beyond what it was designed for.

Grab a cheap tongue scale and measure to see where your weight actually is without the trailer attached to your hitch, and adjust from there to get it closer to that 650-700lbs mark:

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I am 770# TW on the ball without any equipment in my rig, but with battery and fill propane. Measured with a sureline tongue scale

I am about 920# including WD hitch weight when loaded with gear, according to CAT scales. Trailer weight was 6060# at that time, which was 60# over trailer GWVR… but also had full grey and mostly full black tanks. Weight will vary a few pounds depending on how much water is in the tanks. I moved my battery inside to sit over the axle so that does remove about 60# of weight from the tongue.

Yes I am overweight. I also have stiffer springs than OEM. I’m not running the Australian GVM upgrade but I’m also not that far off from it. My GVWR is close to the GVM numbers. I’ve pulled close to 30k miles on this setup, on highways at 75 mph for hours at a time, through mountain passes, passing semis without any sway, emergency braking, etc. I am careful particularly on long trips about balancing trailer weight - ie putting a cooler in the far back of the trailer at times to better manage the balance.

 

[TeCKis300]

From my experience, heavy tongue weights in and of itself is not a problem. It's a reality of towing a heavy trailer. I tow an 8k trailer, with tongue weight at ~1200lbs all in, which is 15%. Tows well and stable, in high winds and grade. AHC being effectively a progressive spring rate does compensates well.

The integration is important. Meaning it's incredibly important to have the right setup that includes keeping the ball close and tight to the bumper so the weight is more effectively managed by the suspension, and not leveraging further weight off the front axle. Includes having enough WD tension to manage and re-distribute the weight back to the front axles of the tow vehicle and the trailer axles.

 

[ColoradoSequoia]

Based on a cursory look, Outdoors RVs seem to weigh too much for the cruiser to safely tow.

We have a 2019 21DBS ORV which apparently they aren't selling right now. It's 5500# dry - probably 6500#+ loaded up. TW is 950# with propane and batteries. We typically go up with 2/3-full fresh tanks. Stability is excellent and LC pulls well. It's a little slow go up the high elevation passes (10k) and gas goes away quick. Love the trailer though and I'm not convinced anything other than a diesel 1/2 ton would do much better and carry 5-6 people and not break...

I suspect Lance is slightly easier to pull in the wind since it's a little lower profile. But weight I think is in the same ballpark.

 

[linuxgod]

We have a 2019 21DBS ORV which apparently they aren't selling right now. It's 5500# dry - probably 6500#+ loaded up. TW is 950# with propane and batteries. We typically go up with 2/3-full fresh tanks. Stability is excellent and LC pulls well. It's a little slow go up the high elevation passes (10k) and gas goes away quick. Love the trailer though and I'm not convinced anything other than a diesel 1/2 ton would do much better and carry 5-6 people and not break...

I suspect Lance is slightly easier to pull in the wind since it's a little lower profile. But weight I think is in the same ballpark.

View attachment 2981555

It’s pretty similar. Also my mileage especially on the highway is just as bad as yours I’m sure.

 

[ColoradoSequoia]

It’s pretty similar. Also my mileage especially on the highway is just as bad as yours I’m sure.

Oh yeah. 4.5 mpg on a flat but windy NM hwy was expensive.

 

[Steveray450]

Nice rig! Are they importing Zone's?

No unfortunately. Long story...it took a couple of years of working with Zone to get one in to the U.S.
I think it is the only X12 in North America. Which is too bad...as they are really well (frankly over) built and crazy nice amenity's. sorry for the Late response to your question!

 

[Steveray450]

No unfortunately. Long story...it took a couple of years of working with Zone to get one in to the U.S.
I think it is the only X12 in North America. Which is too bad...as they are really well (frankly over) built and crazy nice amenity's. sorry for the Late response to your question!

Thank you by the way for the complement on the rig!

 

[linuxgod]

Oh yeah. 4.5 mpg on a flat but windy NM hwy was expensive.

I’ve seen under 6mpg in Nebraska. Something about crosswinds and ethanol and 75mph I guess? Most of the time I average about 7, so at 4.5 you’ve got me beat. I did get 3mpg going up Monarch pass once but made up for it on the downhill

 

[GordJ]

I am pretty lucky because in Canada they use the litres per one hundred kilometre ratings which to me is exactly the same as oven or body temperatures in Celsius, unintelligible, and then we use Imperial gallons which is slightly larger than US gallons and, again, make conversions difficult. When I am driving and the dash says 17 l/100kms I know that is just about the best I’m going to average. Of course when I’m towing it goes to the 30 l/100kms area which I suspect is expensive and given the kilometre-mile conversion and then the liter/gallon conversion it is impossible to convert. All I know is that I can go just about 300 kilometres before running out (literally) of gas. And I never lose/win the Thirstiest Vehicle game because I can’t do the conversion!
So, the best mileage I have ever got towing was on a very muddy Dempster Highway in the Yukon Territory. Normally it is 370 kilometres from the fuel depot at the Dempster/Klondike Highway corner to the next gas station at Eagle Plains. We were only able, because of road conditions and traffic, to average about 60 kilometres per hour (about 40 mp/h, I can convert that because the LC is in miles) and I was concerned that we wouldn’t come close after pushing mud that far. I was quite surprised after fueling up in Eagle Plains that we would have made it all the way. Jerry cans and calculations for those who wondered.
Or course finding the road was closed ahead for what ended up to be 3 days because a LNG truck had slid off the road took away the pleasure of discovering the best speed for towing.

 

[NoClue]

Is there a certain firestone airbag kit that will work with 2" lift springs for the rear of the 200?

 

[linuxgod]

Is there a certain firestone airbag kit that will work with 2" lift springs for the rear of the 200?

Yes see my sig

 

[NoClue]

Yes see my sig

are these taller than the kit you originally posted?

 

[NoClue]

those 4129s are difficult to find

 

[TeCKis300]

Is there a certain firestone airbag kit that will work with 2" lift springs for the rear of the 200?

It's possible in my mind to use a regular airbag for extended lifts. There may be pros to it. Possibly some cons?

Usually the install calls for significant cutting of the jounce stop. When using a shorter bag, can cut far less of it. The way it would engage the bag may be more progressive in this manner. May wear the bag more at the top, but may not?

I'm currently using a shorter 100-series spec airbag in my 200-series. With only 2 steps cut off the jounce stop. Seems to work well.

 

[linuxgod]

are these taller than the kit you originally posted?

The 4164 is the official kit. They are 10" tall.

The 4129 is the same diameter but is 11" tall. It will work with a mild 2" lift where the front gets lifted 2" but the rear is maybe 1 to 1.25" of lift.

You can actually use the 4164 kit with a lift. Just cut off less of the bump stop. The instructions say to cut off all 4 rings, but you can cut off 3 (or possibly 2) with the "no lift" 4164 kit and it'll work just fine.

I went with the 4129 because I'd already cut the bump stops all the way down when I was on OEM suspension. Going back required otherwise buying new ones for me

 

[LTSR]

The 4164 is the official kit. They are 10" tall.

The 4129 is the same diameter but is 11" tall. It will work with a mild 2" lift where the front gets lifted 2" but the rear is maybe 1 to 1.25" of lift.

You can actually use the 4164 kit with a lift. Just cut off less of the bump stop. The instructions say to cut off all 4 rings, but you can cut off 3 (or possibly 2) with the "no lift" 4164 kit and it'll work just fine.

I went with the 4129 because I'd already cut the bump stops all the way down when I was on OEM suspension. Going back required otherwise buying new ones for me

do you have the airlines pointing up or down? I have read about some others having condensation with it pointing up. would like some feedback from others as well.