- Thread starter
- #601
You'll love it. They did a great job maximizing interior space. My only wish with my 2015 is that I could retrofit the 2.5" lift kit that Lance now sells.
Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (5 Viewers)
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^What changed that you can't lift the 2015?
One of the best mods I did with my trailer was to lift it. Combination of Dexter 2.875" lift blocks and .3" upsized tire lift Airstreams start out pretty low and I was dragging the tail crossing any significant dip. Clearance is sooo much better for steep campsites, unimproved areas, and boondocking. Probably matches my 200-series for clearance now. Unintended benefits was easier access to external storage without bending down as much to reach. Dumping tanks with a 3" drain height advantage. Concerns and consequences to stability turned out to be nil.
One of the best mods I did with my trailer was to lift it. Combination of Dexter 2.875" lift blocks and .3" upsized tire lift Airstreams start out pretty low and I was dragging the tail crossing any significant dip. Clearance is sooo much better for steep campsites, unimproved areas, and boondocking. Probably matches my 200-series for clearance now. Unintended benefits was easier access to external storage without bending down as much to reach. Dumping tanks with a 3" drain height advantage. Concerns and consequences to stability turned out to be nil.
- Thread starter
- #603
Not sure. When I asked Lance they told me that the axles on the older models weren't designed to be lifted. I've not tried to reach out to Dexter to confirm/deny. I agree the extra height would be great. I'd love to be able to run 15" LT tires as well instead of 14" ST but I think my axles are too close together to do that even with the lift.
Makes sense about the tires. My buddy with the 2285 couldn't find an x-chock that could fit in between the spacing of the tires.
If you look at the axles, there should be a decal on them with the axle model and capacities. That may help clarify if you might be able to lift as the blocks I purchased were specific to the axle rather than the Airstream.
If you look at the axles, there should be a decal on them with the axle model and capacities. That may help clarify if you might be able to lift as the blocks I purchased were specific to the axle rather than the Airstream.
- Thread starter
- #605
I may dig in further before we travel next year. So far I've only scraped the rear bumper of the Lance once, and that was on a steep intersection in a neighborhood SLC. Though I think our height is similar, I'm a shorter length than your Airstream so I'm guessing my rear overhang is probably a bit shorter as well.
Here’s our setup
No problems with the steps being too high? My 17’er needs an extra step after “flipping the axles”.
First step is a bit taller but not unreasonably so. I keep a couple different height plastic folding step stools for off camber situations though. They're useful for many other things like outside shower, awning setup, etc.
That’s a neat solution to towing and carrying a bike, a dilemma I’m currently trying to solve. Does the extra long tongue length cause any issues?
- Thread starter
- #610
I looked into this further and there is a lift kit for the 2016 and prior Lance but it's only offered as a 7" lift. From what I've seen, a 7" lift looks kinda hillbilly to me (and I consider myself at least 50% redneck). On the Lance Owners forum someone posted " The larger frame was introduced at the 2017.5 model year change. The larger frame can take a factory 2 1/2 inch lift kit, where the older frame could only take the 7 1/2 inch truss lift. Not sure if there were other reasons for the change. "
The 2 5/8" lift won't work because the 2017 and prior Lance model had a frame which was notched so that the Dexter axle was recessed in it. The lift kit is just a set of blocks that fits between the frame and the axle, so that won't work with this setup.
Most people trying to get a lift on these older Lance trailer apparently end up swapping the axles. The stock axle is 22.5 degrees while Dexter sells a 32.5 and 45 degree option as well. Apparently it's about $1000 per axle ($500 for the axle, plus another $175-200 for shipping, and about $250 for the installation, assuming you pay someone). This apparently nets 2.3" of lift, but because the tires are set so closely it doesn't allow for upgrading to 15" wheels. If I was doing an axle swap I'd probably look at trying to get a 4000# load rating axle as well (I think the stock Lance axles are 3500#), though I realize it might not technically increase the GVWR if the frame isn't designed to support more. That said unless I break or bend an axle I'm unlikely to go this route given the cost; plus I would assume it would affect the ride since if the axle starting angle is 45 degrees while it would allow more compression the trailer is more likely to bounce around given there would be less extension length possible.
Pics so you can see what I'm talking about...
Old axle setup. Note how the frame is notched.
This guy had a separate piece of C-channel steel welded below the frame so he could both lift the trailer and spread the axles slightly further apart to support 15" tires. You can see how it's notched:
Newer lift, note the frame is smooth:
7" lift which actually involves installing a crossmember in the open space in the frame. This looks silly tall to me:
^Thanks for that run down! Notched frame for recessed axles. Most interesting. Surely added to manufacturing costs that they simplified in later years. Wonder if the later years start out higher as I believe 22* downangle axles are pretty typical.
Yeah, 7" would be huuuge. As it were, a 3" lift on mine looked dramatic. Would have preferred a more subtle 1.5-3" lift. But it works well and I've incurred no untoward handling behavior.
Yeah, 7" would be huuuge. As it were, a 3" lift on mine looked dramatic. Would have preferred a more subtle 1.5-3" lift. But it works well and I've incurred no untoward handling behavior.
Haven't run into any as of yet. Had some tight trails last weekend and no probs
- Thread starter
- #613
Both older and current axles are 22.5*, as best I can find. But the new Lance trailers have an axle which sits on the bottom of the frame, so adding a 2 5/8" lift is much simpler. Not sure if the frame height on the old and new trailers is the same, but I suspect it is since I saw a lot of chatter on the forums about people hitting the triangles or bumper on steep driveways
The old frame was "ultralight" and was something like 4 5/8", whereas the new one is a 5" C channel. The old one had lots of oval holes in it. I suspect the notch was for stiffness as the 7" lift is apparently a truss that runs the width of the frame, not just some sort of filler panel, though it could just have been a way for Lance to lower the trailer a few inches to make it more aerodynamic or easier to access or maneuver. *shrugs*. Unless someone else comes up with an interesting aftermarket option I'll just run with my current height. Unlike an LC, I don't think there's ever an age in which travel trailers start to *appreciate* in value, so $2k+ for 2.5" hardly seems worth it
Installed new equalizer brand WDH on the new 2020 Heritage Edition.
Stock suspension. I towed this same trailer with no issues all over the western US with my 2005 100 series. That 100 did have medium OME suspension. I had an old WDH with the 90deg bars and chains. I thought I would upgrade. I considered air bags but might as well try without them before I go down that road and hack my bump stops.
Waiting on suspension till I do bumper & winch. Someday....
Trailer: 1974 25ft Avion LeGrande
GTWR: 7238.. Dry weight: 5363... Payload: 1875
Scaled everything about 10 years ago with normal load.
Trailer: 6440.. Cruiser (100 series): 5780.. Gross: 12220
I know I have sufficient tongue weight due to towing this tin can for a decade but don’t know the actual tongue weight. Water tank is centered on axles. Black tank is at ass end and it will not feel as stable if full. Otherwise tows real nice and uneventful. Even at 75+mph. Trailer suspension is a Mor-Ryde rubber block and bushing pivoting heavy duty thing. I rebuilt the rubber last year. That trailer is built like a tank. Everything is still straight and the wood cabinets close with a finger. Wind gusts.... semi trucks don’t affect the trailer much. I think it helps to have all those round corners.
No road test yet but all the numbers look good. After setting up hitch the rear dropped (at fender well) 1-1/4” and the front returned to same measurement (without trailer hooked up). Guess I guessed right on the number of washers for bar angle. This may just work! The trailer is slightly up at the tongue and that’s OK. A longer drop hitch and 1-1/4 lower would be too low I think. May need that drop hitch later whenever I do suspension and/or tires.
The numbers.. cruiser from ground to fender.. with normal load in back.
No trailer. Front: 34-5/8. Rear: 36-1/8
Trailer.. no WDH. Front: 35-1/2. Rear: 32-7/8
Trailer WDH. Front: 34-5/8. Rear: 34-7/8
Stock suspension. I towed this same trailer with no issues all over the western US with my 2005 100 series. That 100 did have medium OME suspension. I had an old WDH with the 90deg bars and chains. I thought I would upgrade. I considered air bags but might as well try without them before I go down that road and hack my bump stops.
Waiting on suspension till I do bumper & winch. Someday....
Trailer: 1974 25ft Avion LeGrande
GTWR: 7238.. Dry weight: 5363... Payload: 1875
Scaled everything about 10 years ago with normal load.
Trailer: 6440.. Cruiser (100 series): 5780.. Gross: 12220
I know I have sufficient tongue weight due to towing this tin can for a decade but don’t know the actual tongue weight. Water tank is centered on axles. Black tank is at ass end and it will not feel as stable if full. Otherwise tows real nice and uneventful. Even at 75+mph. Trailer suspension is a Mor-Ryde rubber block and bushing pivoting heavy duty thing. I rebuilt the rubber last year. That trailer is built like a tank. Everything is still straight and the wood cabinets close with a finger. Wind gusts.... semi trucks don’t affect the trailer much. I think it helps to have all those round corners.
No road test yet but all the numbers look good. After setting up hitch the rear dropped (at fender well) 1-1/4” and the front returned to same measurement (without trailer hooked up). Guess I guessed right on the number of washers for bar angle. This may just work! The trailer is slightly up at the tongue and that’s OK. A longer drop hitch and 1-1/4 lower would be too low I think. May need that drop hitch later whenever I do suspension and/or tires.
The numbers.. cruiser from ground to fender.. with normal load in back.
No trailer. Front: 34-5/8. Rear: 36-1/8
Trailer.. no WDH. Front: 35-1/2. Rear: 32-7/8
Trailer WDH. Front: 34-5/8. Rear: 34-7/8
I tow an Outdoors RV 23DBS:
Dry weight: 5,900
Tongue Wt with full fresh water tank (78 gal): ~900
Length: 25'7"
ORV trailers are taller than most due to the lifted suspension.
2013 LC:
Dobinsons Nitro Shocks Front/Rear; variable rear springs
1.4 in front lift, 0.5" rear lift
Timbren SES bump stops
BFG KO2 275/70 18
Impressions:
- Tows very well. Very stable. Zero sway against Wyoming wind gusts and semi trailers.
- I was able to get the truck leveled out with the WD hitch and a final minor adjustment with the Timbrens (the Timbrens I finally got to work with some different brackets provided directly by the mfg)
- Power is adequate on hills - we are regularly towing on Colorado mountain passes. And 95% of the time, I'm going as fast as I want. The LC seems to be happiest at 66mph when trailering. I prefer to keep it under 70 mph when towing anyway.
My only real grip is towing long distances. I'm perfectly happy traveling from the Denver area for trips anywhere in Colorado. However a recent trip to Northern WY had me close to running out of fuel a few times. Eventually I refused to skip exits when tank as 1/2 empty. This added significant time to our trip for gas stops. Some WY hills, against a moderate wind, I was getting 4.5 mpg with engine pegged at 4-6k rpms. I didn't really mind or worry at all about the high revs, but the gas gauge dropped pretty darn quickly.
I'd consider a larger gas tank, but I don't want to add any more weight. God help me if I have to "up"grade to a pickup that I don't want - seems unnecessary tho just b/c of this. Cheaper (better) just to be more patient.
Holler at me if anyone has any questions - happy to answer specific Qs about my experiences with any of the above.
(BTW - the bottom pic with the doors closed is BEFORE I installed the Timbrens which leveled it out completely),
Dry weight: 5,900
Tongue Wt with full fresh water tank (78 gal): ~900
Length: 25'7"
ORV trailers are taller than most due to the lifted suspension.
2013 LC:
Dobinsons Nitro Shocks Front/Rear; variable rear springs
1.4 in front lift, 0.5" rear lift
Timbren SES bump stops
BFG KO2 275/70 18
Impressions:
- Tows very well. Very stable. Zero sway against Wyoming wind gusts and semi trailers.
- I was able to get the truck leveled out with the WD hitch and a final minor adjustment with the Timbrens (the Timbrens I finally got to work with some different brackets provided directly by the mfg)
- Power is adequate on hills - we are regularly towing on Colorado mountain passes. And 95% of the time, I'm going as fast as I want. The LC seems to be happiest at 66mph when trailering. I prefer to keep it under 70 mph when towing anyway.
My only real grip is towing long distances. I'm perfectly happy traveling from the Denver area for trips anywhere in Colorado. However a recent trip to Northern WY had me close to running out of fuel a few times. Eventually I refused to skip exits when tank as 1/2 empty. This added significant time to our trip for gas stops. Some WY hills, against a moderate wind, I was getting 4.5 mpg with engine pegged at 4-6k rpms. I didn't really mind or worry at all about the high revs, but the gas gauge dropped pretty darn quickly.
I'd consider a larger gas tank, but I don't want to add any more weight. God help me if I have to "up"grade to a pickup that I don't want - seems unnecessary tho just b/c of this. Cheaper (better) just to be more patient.
Holler at me if anyone has any questions - happy to answer specific Qs about my experiences with any of the above.
(BTW - the bottom pic with the doors closed is BEFORE I installed the Timbrens which leveled it out completely),
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I just got back from yellow stone. We towed about 70mph most the time and I averaged 7.5 mpg I have a 2018 LX570 and a 2019 airstream 25’11” dry weight 5600 lbs camp ready 6500 lbs... I tow in the utah mountains and camp regularly at 10,000 feet. The long big climbs I usually get 6.5 it’s horrible. I added 7 gallons to my front of my hitch haven’t needed to us it yet though...
I may consider adding some gas to my tongue area also..
For this beautiful gas sucking machine...
terrapin
SILVER Star
@Rando Kuruza, can you share how you mounted the Rotopax to your Airstream? Last week I was sweating bullets as I got down to two miles left on the computer. Of course, when I filled it up I had about 5 gallons left, but that's another issue.
Friday when I towed our camper to Seward I drove the last ~15 miles with 0 miles on the CPU.
When I go North here in AK I take 10-20gallons of fuel. Transport it on a cargo tray with the 2” receiver I’ve attached to my trailer bumper.
