Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (5 Viewers)

[linuxgod]

So I’ve read through pretty much all 30 pages of this thread but still aren’t sure which way to go. I’m a pretty novice tower and we have a 2020 HE that’s probably riding an extra 1” high after I added some more aggressive 285/65/18 Toyo OC AT3s.

Planning to tow a rented 20’ airstream in a couple weeks with a GBWR of 5k lbs and a tongue weight of about 700 lbs. We’re only going like 250-300 miles of mostly highway across VA over 3 days.

I’m convinced I need to add a brake controller so I’m trying decide between just having the dealer install the OEM option or going with the REDARC Tow Pro Elite recommenced on here. Also wondering how much of a drop tow hitch I need and if I should consider any sort of more complex weight distribution hitch or anything.

I don’t mind spending the money to get the good stuff but we’ll likely only tow something that heavy 1-2 times a year.

Would appreciate any advice!

By law you need a brake controller is most states if you trailer is 3k# or more. Toyota manual says you should use one for any trailer >1k#. So yes, you need one. As far as which one - I've used the Primus IQ and the Redarc and I recommend the Redarc. They both work fine, but the Redarc knob is much more accessible when you need to make adjustments to the braking force.

Drop hitch height will depend on the height of your trailer frame. Accoridng to BlueOx, who makes my hitch, to get the proper setup the top of the ball should be 1.5" taller than the coupler on the trailer when both vehicles are parked, not attached, and the trailer is level. With my mild lift and my 2015 Lance I needed a 10" drop hitch. I understand Airstreams are low like my Lance and so your setup will likely be similar.

If the TW is 700# you should use a WD hitch. Toyota recommends them for anything over 500#. IMO you should use them for anything over ~400#. Keep in mind your TW may be heavier than stated by the manufacturer with full propane, batteries, and stuff loaded in the front part of your trailer.

 

[linuxgod]

With all due respect, recommending someone new to towing, to not use proper equipment is ill advised. WD hitches are not crutches. They physically expand the envelope of stable operation against variables that are sometime outside of ones control including grade, wind, speed, poor loading, brake bias, etc. Without experience managing those other variables, it's especially important to use a WD hitch.

Travel trailers are different than towing car trailers. They have larger slab sides that can and will catch wind, lending to dynamic sway in the wrong situations. I'm on the Airstream forums often, and even HD trucks towing what are considered relatively small loads, experience sway.

+1

Not just WD but also anti-sway is very important on the highway.

I used an inexpensive ProSeries WD hitch with my 24' Surveyor. I could remove the anti-sway and because it was an old-school friction style I sometimes would leave it off or turned down if we were largely on back roads. But if I got on the highway and passed a semi the wind from passing would really push me around, to the point where at 55-60mph it sometimes felt white knuckling. With that friction anti-sway it still pushed me but it would push the trailer and truck like it was one long unit rather than two separate vehicles.

When I went to my 25' Lance I bought a BlueOx 1000# hitch. (The WD mounts on the trailer bolt on so they are removable if you are renting a trailer and not buying it, btw.) The BlueOx anti-sway is built into the WD setup. I can now do 75+ with the trailer in tow on the highway and passing semis does not move me AT ALL. It is night and day difference, and I'd 100% recommend spending the ~$550 for one.

Note: the one place I still sometimes get some sway is if someone passes me in their truck or van very closely at high speed - i.e. if I'm doing 70 and someone comes up on my doing 85-90 and zips by, I will feel the trailer wiggle a bit. How much depends on how loaded down the trailer is (e.g. bikes? fresh or gray/black water?) and where the load is placed (fornt or back)

 

[linuxgod]

Going up the pass I am in 4th, 3rd and if needed sometimes 2nd...

I have never towed without weight distribution but I would not recommend without it... I have seen to many flipped trailers where I live. Set up is key, we have short wheel base vehicles I wouldn’t skimp on equipment not for a second. No matter how many years of towing under my belt and how talented I am, doesn’t matter. In example give the most talented most experience towing driver a land cruiser and a 34’ trailer there isn’t anything he can do... wrong equipment for the wrong trailer. Period!

in the case of the smaller airstream the land cruiser can do it but I would use a brake controller and a good weight distribution hitch and don’t load to much stuff rear off the axles as it will cause sway.

You'll definitely generate heat when climbing big passes. I'm not sure what the transmission gears equate to on the 8 speed - but if you can maintain 45 and keep the RPMs around 4500-5000 (regardless of the gear) that's better than going 25 (where you don't get as much airflow through the radiator) or lower RPMs (e.g. 3500, which moves less volume of fluid through the transmission and radiator).

Going over Monarch pass last summer I was in 2nd at solidly 5k RPMs which put me at maybe ~45MPH and IIRC the transmission temps topped out at maybe 220-225.

 

[linuxgod]

@linuxgod I am making one up just in case. I need to do some work on the new 200 before I can tow with it anyways. I was hoping to grab my trailer and bring it home on my way back from Spokane, but there ended up being too much to wire up before I can tow.

Sorry we were camping last week and I didn't get a chance to respond before the weekend

The quick and easy solution is to buy one off etrailer or amazon for about $30. 7-pin male on one end, 7-pin female on the other. Installation takes about 60 seconds since it's just like plugging in an extension cord.

IF you do need a longer wire the *right* way is to buy a new harness and replace the original one. But that's definitely more work to wire up.

 

[LCHardriver_02]

IF you do need a longer wire the *right* way is to buy a new harness and replace the original one. But that's definitely more work to wire up.

Agreed. I ended up rewiring my older Lance because it was too short when hooking up at the OEM location on our LX. The new 200 has a Slee rear bumper and will need to look at where the relocation bracket gets installed. The truck did not have this nor the OEM electrical receptacle. I'll be picking one up and mounting it up as close to the hitch as possible, but when I spoke with Christo last week, he confirmed that I would need a short extension. For now, I'll go with that unless it becomes a pain and then I'll rewire the whole trailer harness with a longer cable.

 

[linuxgod]

Agreed. I ended up rewiring my older Lance because it was too short when hooking up at the OEM location on our LX. The new 200 has a Slee rear bumper and will need to look at where the relocation bracket gets installed. The truck did not have this nor the OEM electrical receptacle. I'll be picking one up and mounting it up as close to the hitch as possible, but when I spoke with Christo last week, he confirmed that I would need a short extension. For now, I'll go with that unless it becomes a pain and then I'll rewire the whole trailer harness with a longer cable.

IIRC the Slee bumper just turns the plug and stuffs it up in the same area. So you'd need a bit extra length since the wiring would be pointed down instead of rearward.

If you're not wheeling your LX, I'd look at how to move the harness and mount it somewhere near the hitch. Maybe on the tire swingout on Slee's bumper?

 

[LCHardriver_02]

Yeah, I will need to get a bracket for the new receptacle anyways so I may try to get it closer if I can. I'd rather not have to get down on my hands and knees each time I have to connect up to a trailer. That OEM location was always a terrible idea in my opinion. Slee's just seems to be even harder to deal with but we will see.
Thanks!

 

[Rando Kuruza]

Okay long write up. So I towed the trailer about 130 miles this weekend, nothing to far. I went home a different route ( I live in the mountains camped in the valley ) with a much more moderate and consistent climb almost unperceived, the transmission never got over 212. The tow experience went like this... Started at 4200 feet finished at 6700 ft above sea level over 68 miles. At 4200 ft the trans was 195, at 4800 ft the trans was 203, at 5200 ft the trans was at 198, at 5600 ft the trans was at 212, at 5800 feet the trans was 201, at 6400 ft the trans was 190, got home 6700 ft the trans was at 190. I got 7.5 MPG... Stayed at about 65-68mph the whole time OUCH!!! I was Pulling my 25FB Airstream, with no cargo in the vehicle other than passengers (total about 600lb) and the trailer weighing in about 6750lbs (We load everything in the trailer to keep the weight out of the vehicle and we have no back seats. Zero sqaut with AHC) . There was no traffic and the temps were about 80 degrees, the LX570 really does have great power. I decided it's better to blast pass the semi's then to take it easy and stay behind them. (going 60-65 instead of 30 lol) It keeps me in my power band and as linuxgod says there is speed to cool the engine and tranny. My propride hitch absolutely has zero sway, like nothing, even mountain winds that take my neighbors patio furniture into my back yard as I got home from towing no sway, like I find myself driving with 1 hand kind of experience, and never, ever even getting nervous at any point. Also note.. prior to buying this Airstream in October 2019 I have never towed before other than a utility trailer. I find that staying in the 3000-4000 rpm range is this engines sweet spot. (8 spd tranny) The car pulled with so much power and was great. Anytime I get below 3000 rpm the suv looses momentum and has to down shift. Going into 2nd on the freeway is just to much revs for my comfort levels lol. So I am just trying to keep the car in the mountain climbs in the 3000-4500 rpm range and it seems to do great. Also I use manual shift alot to keep myself in the power band so I find the paddle shifters on the LX570 to actually be a really desirable feature for my towing experience. I think climbing over Parleys summit in UTAH is just a brutal, brutal climb. I honestly think I am going to give George (The LX 570) a break and take easier ways home, even if it adds another 15-20 minutes. I do think this Airstream is at the top of this SUV's limits. I know I weighed it and it was a little past it's GVWR Fully Fully loaded. I don't dare to load up, bikes, paddle boards, kayaks and all the toys for the kids. I feel like it would be over loading the LX and I would blast past GVWR on this vehicle easy... A lighter Travel Trailer like a Lance would allow much more stuff to be brought along in my opinion.

 

[TeCKis300]

Good stuff and great to hear you're getting into the rhythm.

Once you get a hang of the 5.7L powerband, she's a brute. You're 8-speed gives you lots of flexibility and gearing choices at whatever speed. My 6-speed and 33s has a gearing hole at about 30 mph where I can't get into her powerband in the most brutal climbs. Too fast for first, and too low of rpm in 2nd. I'm building parts to re-gear for those brutal mountain climbs (and possibly 35s).

Likewise to your experience, I find my rig very stable. She doesn't flinch with passing trucks. Or busses that are flat nosed and a more difficult test. Only in the burliest of winds (45+ gusts across mountains passes where wind is channeled), does the rig move around. As would a solo 200-series. Then again, everything and everyone on the road is moving around. Still stable and confidence inspiring in those conditions with well damped response.

In regards to loading, I wouldn't hesitate putting gear and stuff in the tow vehicle, especially over or forward of the rear axle. Yes, you want to be aware of load capacities. However, AHC and the 200-series bones are strong. Mass with the tow vehicle tends to give it ballast - adding traction, influence, and control to the tow vehicle over the trailer. Versus the trailer being heavier and having relatively more influence with its motions.

 

[1carnut]

So I’ve read through pretty much all 30 pages of this thread but still aren’t sure which way to go. I’m a pretty novice tower and we have a 2020 HE that’s probably riding an extra 1” high after I added some more aggressive 285/65/18 Toyo OC AT3s.

Planning to tow a rented 20’ airstream in a couple weeks with a GBWR of 5k lbs and a tongue weight of about 700 lbs. We’re only going like 250-300 miles of mostly highway across VA over 3 days.

I’m convinced I need to add a brake controller so I’m trying decide between just having the dealer install the OEM option or going with the REDARC Tow Pro Elite recommenced on here. Also wondering how much of a drop tow hitch I need and if I should consider any sort of more complex weight distribution hitch or anything.

I don’t mind spending the money to get the good stuff but we’ll likely only tow something that heavy 1-2 times a year.

Would appreciate any advice!

Appreciate all the great advice from the vast experience in here! I ended up ordering the Redarc Tow-Pro Elite that I'll hopefully get installed later this week.

Tow-Pro Elite Electric Brake Controller

The award-winning Tow-Pro Elite is suitable for both 12 volt and 24 volt vehicles and is the only brake controller on the market that offers two types of braking options in one dash mounted unit.

redarcelectronics.com

From a hitch perspective I figured out the Airstream we're renting soon already has a Reese WD Hitch installed Reese 66022 Reese High Performance Trunnion Weight Distributing Hitch (1,200 lbs) so seems all I can really do is buy a Reese shank with a greater drop than the 6" version the Airstream owner has so I can better compensate for the higher ride height of the LC. I found this 10" model Amazon product ASIN B002XQQDIW
Still not too sure the setup will be completely balanced but for whatever reason the owner doesn't know the height of the trailer coupler when the trailer is sitting on the ground and balanced.

 

[TeCKis300]

The top of the Airstream hitch coupler when sitting level should be ~18". For an LC or a non-dynamic suspension rig, you'll want to aim for the top of the ball to sit ~1.5" higher to account for the suspension taking a set.

 

[Rando Kuruza]

So update on towing so far this year everything has been good, the longest climbs without any breaks are still going into the 240 range. Oddly enough climbing from 6,500 feet to 10,000 feet in the Utah Uinta mountains where the roads go up then down, up and down up and down. Giving the SUV a break the temperatures don’t seem to climb as high it’s the long continuous no breaks climbing that heats up the trans temp. I also added these 3.5 gallon fuel pax the the tongue, increasing tongue weight lol but also gives me another 7 gallons if I need it while I am towing. On a side note towing while climbing the gas mileage is horrible lol

 

[afgman786]

So update on towing so far this year everything has been good, the longest climbs without any breaks are still going into the 240 range. Oddly enough climbing from 6,500 feet to 10,000 feet in the Utah Uinta mountains where the roads go up then down, up and down up and down. Giving the SUV a break the temperatures don’t seem to climb as high it’s the long continuous no breaks climbing that heats up the trans temp. I also added these 3.5 gallon fuel pax the the tongue, increasing tongue weight lol but also gives me another 7 gallons if I need it while I am towing. On a side note towing while climbing the gas mileage is horrible lol

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Which app are you using for temps?

 

[TeCKis300]

Makes me want to get out. My Airstream is sitting impatiently in the side yard waiting to get out. Hunkered down with all this COVID business, but it's probably one of the safest activities to engage in.

 

[linuxgod]

@Rando Kuruza those temps are fine. 246F is the torque converter temp. The fluid goes right from the TC to the radiator and then into the pan. IMO you should really focus on the 225F pan temp, which is acceptable for a long climb. I've seen >230F in the pan on long high climbs before.

 

[chiplee]

Great info in this thread. I've read just about every page now and it's an amazing resource. I'm almost convinced a Lance 2285 is for us, but since there are some Lance owners here I thought I'd ask what you all think about the fact that Lance lists their 2465 (7800lb GVWR) model as one of their "7000lb tow rating" offerings. Their rationale for this is explained as follows...

"Hitch weight is actually being hauled while the
remaining trailer weight is being towed.

Ex: If a trailer has an overall weight of 4k lbs.
with 400 lbs. of hitch weight that would mean
3600 lbs. is on the axles and being towed.
(4,000 – 400 = 3,600 or Towed Weight)"

In the 2465's case, 7800lb GVWR - 800lb tongue weight = 7000 tow rating required.

Usual good judgement aside, how does this square with the fact that there's probably almost no case where a 7000lb tow rating vehicle can tow that amount without a weight distribution hitch, which will cause some of the tongue weight to be transferred back to the trailer axle exceeding the 7k rating?

 

[coleAK]

Great info in this thread. I've read just about every page now and it's an amazing resource. I'm almost convinced a Lance 2285 is for us, but since there are some Lance owners here I thought I'd ask what you all think about the fact that Lance lists their 2465 (7800lb GVWR) model as one of their "7000lb tow rating" offerings. Their rationale for this is explained as follows...

"Hitch weight is actually being hauled while the
remaining trailer weight is being towed.

Ex: If a trailer has an overall weight of 4k lbs.
with 400 lbs. of hitch weight that would mean
3600 lbs. is on the axles and being towed.
(4,000 – 400 = 3,600 or Towed Weight)"

In the 2465's case, 7800lb GVWR - 800lb tongue weight = 7000 tow rating required.

Usual good judgement aside, how does this square with the fact that there's probably almost no case where a 7000lb tow rating vehicle can tow that amount without a weight distribution hitch, which will cause some of the tongue weight to be transferred back to the trailer axle exceeding the 7k rating?

Travel trailers are set up to use WD hitches regardless of tow rating. I’ll put it this way Even if I was to tow a 3k lb TT with a 300lb tongue weight I would still use a WD.

 

[chiplee]

Travel trailers are set up to use WD hitches regardless of tow rating. I’ll put it this way Even if I was to tow a 3k lb TT with a 300lb tongue weight I would still use a WD.

Right. That's kind of exactly my point. WD hitches will usually be in use with TTs, so how can they suggest you can simply subtract tongue weight from trailer weight to meet your rating? Why would Lance put that info in their brochure and on their website, or do all RV manufacturers do that? Do you all think of your trailer weight as its gross weight minus tongue weight or just it's straight gross weight when calculating rating margin? It could be that's just common and I've just never thought of it that way, but it's also kind of clear that it's not ever going to be true when using a WD hitch. I guess you could load with 15% tongue weight and make it work or something, but that's kind of crazy.

 

[coleAK]

Right. That's kind of exactly my point. WD hitches will usually be in use with TTs, so how can they suggest you can simply subtract tongue weight from trailer weight to meet your rating? Why would Lance put that info in their brochure and on their website, or do all RV manufacturers do that? Do you all think of your trailer weight as its gross weight minus tongue weight or just it's straight gross weight when calculating rating margin? It could be that's just common and I've just never thought of it that way, but it's also kind of clear that it's not ever going to be true when using a WD hitch. I guess you could load with 15% tongue weight and make it work or something, but that's kind of crazy.

With a WD I think of tow rate in terms of total GVW (GVW tow vehicle+GVW Trailer). I can see the logic of Lance as it could make people be more aware of weight on the truck.

 

[prwillard2]

This whole thread is great. Finally got my wife to agree to getting a travel trailer and looking forward to towing our Imagine Grand Design 2150RB with a 2021 HE LC once I'm back from this year long deployment coming up in the sandbox.