To Snorkel Or Not To Snorkel?

[Docwyte]

Very funny. I'm sure Harrop wants to sell superchargers and since they can't make a tune, have decided that they're fine without it. Been there, done that with other aftermarket companies. It's your choice but when a company tells me you can boost a motor and not have to change the tune at all, I call BS. Timing curves and fuel maps need to be changed, the factory ECU doesn't have the ability to adjust that much on it's own...

 

[bloc]

I love tunes too. My 7.3 powerstroke has a larger turbo and a DP tuner with 6 tunes. Harrop engineered the unit for the stock tune and I bet they have more experience than you, otherwise I would have compared Docwyte superchargers when shopping.

I don't know anything about Docwyte's experience but there is no shortage of reputable tune shop that would laugh you out the door if you told them you wanted to add boost with stock timing and fuel tables and actually keep the engine reliable.

Harrop is leaning on the stock ECU having the ability to detect knock and retard timing.. but it has to detect knock in the first place to do that, has limits on how far it can retard timing which removes the buffer toyota designed in, and after a battery disconnect the long-term learned values are reset so you get back to those nice pingy stock values again for a while.

And that's simply removing enough timing to control knock. Independent of detonation, boosted gasoline engines run better (aka more power, safely) at different fuel air mixtures and timing values than NA.


Harrop's well-documented (here on mud) history of poor customer support with installs and releasing kits that aren't ready yet says a lot about their ethics with regard to this market.

Them selling this stuff has more to do with people being willing to part with their money and not understanding tuning than it does harrop's expertise. Implying they must be any good at it simply because they are on the market is bordering on willful ignorance.

Until someone installs a wideband and EGT probe to verify these things are actually safe to drive, the kits will continue to get called out as band-aid solutions due to the reality of what toyota and harrop are working with here.

 

[alwaysme]

When neighbors ask why I have that thing attached to my fender I tell them it's for the supercharger and they nod like that makes sense.

haha This is exactly what i say as well, but in my situation i double snorkled, one for the airbox and one for the supercharger (only cooling). I am half way there. There is a video on youtube where a snorkel adds HP, i cant remember the vehicle being tested, they even compared forward facing vs rear facing snorkel dyno sheets, ill try to search for it later

 

[AnyMal]

I love tunes too. My 7.3 powerstroke has a larger turbo and a DP tuner with 6 tunes. Harrop engineered the unit for the stock tune and I bet they have more experience than you, otherwise I would have compared Docwyte superchargers when shopping.

They have apparently fully validated it and determined no tune was needed, timing everything was fine per their website when i last looked into it. And also prospeed is highly regarded.

@Fisher23

I dont have any sort of input on such a list but my main worry would be the alternator being so low in the bay. Others here will be much more informative than i am.

 

[AnyMal]

I don't know anything about Docwyte's experience but there is no shortage of reputable tune shop that would laugh you out the door if you told them you wanted to add boost with stock timing and fuel tables and actually keep the engine reliable.

Harrop is leaning on the stock ECU having the ability to detect knock and retard timing.. but it has to detect knock in the first place to do that, has limits on how far it can retard timing which removes the buffer toyota designed in, and after a battery disconnect the long-term learned values are reset so you get back to those nice pingy stock values again for a while.

And that's simply removing enough timing to control knock. Independent of detonation, boosted gasoline engines run better (aka more power, safely) at different fuel air mixtures and timing values than NA.


Harrop's well-documented (here on mud) history of poor customer support with installs and releasing kits that aren't ready yet says a lot about their ethics with regard to this market.

Them selling this stuff has more to do with people being willing to part with their money and not understanding tuning than it does harrop's expertise. Implying they must be any good at it simply because they are on the market is bordering on willful ignorance.

Until someone installs a wideband and EGT probe to verify these things are actually safe to drive, the kits will continue to get called out as band-aid solutions due to the reality of what toyota and harrop are working with here.

Oh wow, good to know. I guess i wont take the retailers advice to heart then. My local LC specialist also advised against it…

Its a shame there is no more official magnuson partnership.

 

[Heckraiser]

Ugly and a new potential home for rust. I am in the anti-dorkle camp. Deepest water crossings around here are about hip-deep (I'm 5'8" with stubby legs), which every yota I've owned could handle just fine with a bow wave. I do not enter water without a good idea of what's underneath. After a trip to the desert, I just pop the air filter out and shake it out or give it a quick blast with compressed air. Even if you have a snorkle, does that mean you just neglect the upkeep on your filter? No, you should still be checking it out after prolonged dusty trips anyway. So you just cut a hole in your fender for nothing!

 

[Fj60+]

Do it if you want to…if you don’t…don’t. I saw a snorkel on a Hyundai the other day…personal preference.

 

[AnyMal]

Do it if you want to…if you don’t…don’t. I saw a snorkel on a Hyundai the other day…personal preference.

Oh neat. Which mall was it at?

 

[Fj60+]

Go to any-mall and I’m sure you’ll fine one.

 

[AnyMal]

I mean, you can actually get some real OEM engineered accommodations once you step out of the Toyota doing the least possible world...

In before, "ToYota iS a FinANce cOmPAny". Please spare me your wisdom.

 

[NoClue]

I'm running a syklone 9001 prefilter on my safari snorkel. My current air filter has 20K on it and it still looks spotless despite the dusty trail condtions I've seen myself in all over the US. I used 3M VHB tape instead of drilling my A-pillar. The fender is also coated with paint protection film, and the holes in the fender are re-painted so I have no worries about corrosion in the future. Love my snorkel!!!

 

[Markuson]

Some random 1.5 cent use thoughts on the question of Snorkel or not… No claim of ultimate facts…just my experience…

I avoided a snorkel despite my massively built, aggressively wheeled truck be ause I didn’t feel it was needed…

I ONLY added it after my trail pal Cole’s incident in Moab…finding a water problem no one expected.

1. Cole’s water issue very likely had a lot to do with an unfortunate disruption of factory intake surrounds/channeling (for lack of a proper term) with a different front end mod. But that possibility aside…at the time, I decided $500 or so was a worthy investment to avoid a $23k fix. I would have done the very same reasonable crossing Cole did had I been on that fairly tame trail….so it can happen even without doing silly things. Surprise deep spots happen: -40” spinning tires on other trucks can create deep spots that are impossible to see in muddy, Utsh water, for example).

2. I installed it myself to save $ and Its been perfect. Measure…re-measure…take a break, and measure again…THEN cut into your fender.

3. Essentially no notable wind noise with windows up, and I have picky ears.

4. Very little visual obstruction from driver…since it hugs the A pillar…even though I have the super-fat Air-Max version. Minimal obstruction.

5. There is no discernable power improvement on 5.7 Petrol engines. Our intakes are controlled by a butterfly valve…NOT by pressure of the intake.
**On diesels in Australia, ARB does makes “AirMax” engine tuner electronics that do take advantage of the large air-max on diesels, but no such offering is out for our 5.7 petrols that I am aware of.

6. You will get frequent goofy questions from curious folk.

7. You will get **skeptical** questions….about whether you’re a “poser.” If you have no pinstripe damage, or bent stuff under your truck…expect occasional riducule (this is only a thing from a distance on my truck, as anyone close to it will immediate see evidence of wheeling)…

8. Some car-washes can break your scoop and extra scoops are stupid expensive (ask me how I know). The break-prone washes are where you are stationary, and the machine moves over you (common in Utah & Colorado… Mine was broken in St. George, Utah). Replacement ARB AirMax scoop was $180…!!!).

**You CAN go through most car washes, but inspect the wash process first unless obviously ok so you don’t break your scoop. The water from the wash itself is not an issue.I have an unlimited wash membership at a place that’s fine, but be careful pulling into random washes.

9. NO mpg improvement. If anything, its worse due to disruption of our already terrible aerodynamics.

10. Snorkels destroy any hope of having a “stealth” rig (tame-lookibg vehicle that’s secretly super capable…which all 200’s are from the factory).

11. Super-deep water crossings are still a pretty bad idea. If water gets in your door seals, or through a number of other vulnerable spots…all kinds of electrical gremlin hell can happen…. Diff oil should still should be swapped after stupid crossings… Ya, breathers…but still.
IOW… A snorkel does NOT make water crossings s”safe.”. It just offers extra protection to your engine from water based catastrophe.

12. ARB scoops are easy to turn backward in suuuper heavy snow, and only looks temporarily dumb. Only one time was I in snow so thinck that I started to gather snow on my scoop. I still didn’t turn it backward, and it was fine. in crazy snow…ya, you can easily do it, snd no…your engine won’t care if its backward (see #5 above).

13. I think the snorkel looks OK. I also think the Cruiser looks good without it. YMMV.

14. Environmentalists will hate you more…but mainly because tgey tend to assume its a huge “smoke stack.”. Or…they confuse you with some idiots who intentionally create diesel smoke just for the sake of defiance….

15. Would I do it again? Probably yes because again, the cost of a killed engine block is scary. My reasoning…reasonably justified it at the time give my wheeling style. Will it ever save my engine? Hopefully it won’t need to…. Are my filters cleaner? In my estimation… they are. But meh… Not a huge deal.

16. I don’t have a # sixteen…
…but sixteen has been my favorite number since I was 5. —It has to do with divisibility and a bit of OCD symmetry-based counting visuals & fixations even my 5 year old brain went for. I still automatically count in grouos of 16 in my head if counting large numbers.

-m

 

[scanavera]

Some random 1.5 cent use thoughts on the question of Snorkel or not… No claim of ultimate facts…just my experience…

I avoided a snorkel despite my massively built, aggressively wheeled truck be ause I didn’t feel it was needed…

I ONLY added it after my trail pal Cole’s incident in Moab…finding a water problem no one expected.

1. Cole’s water issue very likely had a lot to do with an unfortunate disruption of factory intake surrounds/channeling (for lack of a proper term) with a different front end mod. But that possibility aside…at the time, I decided $500 or so was a worthy investment to avoid a $23k fix. I would have done the very same reasonable crossing Cole did had I been on that fairly tame trail….so it can happen even without doing silly things. Surprise deep spots happen: -40” spinning tires on other trucks can create deep spots that are impossible to see in muddy, Utsh water, for example).

2. I installed it myself to save $ and Its been perfect. Measure…re-measure…take a break, and measure again…THEN cut into your fender.

3. Essentially no notable wind noise with windows up, and I have picky ears.

4. Very little visual obstruction from driver…since it hugs the A pillar…even though I have the super-fat Air-Max version. Minimal obstruction.

5. There is no discernable power improvement on 5.7 Petrol engines. Our intakes are controlled by a butterfly valve…NOT by pressure of the intake.
**On diesels in Australia, ARB does makes “AirMax” engine tuner electronics that do take advantage of the large air-max on diesels, but no such offering is out for our 5.7 petrols that I am aware of.

6. You will get frequent goofy questions from curious folk.

7. You will get **skeptical** questions….about whether you’re a “poser.” If you have no pinstripe damage, or bent stuff under your truck…expect occasional riducule (this is only a thing from a distance on my truck, as anyone close to it will immediate see evidence of wheeling)…

8. Some car-washes can break your scoop and extra scoops are stupid expensive (ask me how I know). The break-prone washes are where you are stationary, and the machine moves over you (common in Utah & Colorado… Mine was broken in St. George, Utah). Replacement ARB AirMax scoop was $180…!!!).

**You CAN go through most car washes, but inspect the wash process first unless obviously ok so you don’t break your scoop. The water from the wash itself is not an issue.I have an unlimited wash membership at a place that’s fine, but be careful pulling into random washes.

9. NO mpg improvement. If anything, its worse due to disruption of our already terrible aerodynamics.

10. Snorkels destroy any hope of having a “stealth” rig (tame-lookibg vehicle that’s secretly super capable…which all 200’s are from the factory).

11. Super-deep water crossings are still a pretty bad idea. If water gets in your door seals, or through a number of other vulnerable spots…all kinds of electrical gremlin hell can happen…. Diff oil should still should be swapped after stupid crossings… Ya, breathers…but still.
IOW… A snorkel does NOT make water crossings s”safe.”. It just offers extra protection to your engine from water based catastrophe.

12. ARB scoops are easy to turn backward in suuuper heavy snow, and only looks temporarily dumb. Only one time was I in snow so thinck that I started to gather snow on my scoop. I still didn’t turn it backward, and it was fine. in crazy snow…ya, you can easily do it, snd no…your engine won’t care if its backward (see #5 above).

13. I think the snorkel looks OK. I also think the Cruiser looks good without it. YMMV.

14. Environmentalists will hate you more…but mainly because tgey tend to assume its a huge “smoke stack.”. ‍♂

15. Would I do it again? Meh. My reasoning…reasonably justified it at the time. Will it ever save my engine? I doubt it…. Are my filters cleaner. In my estimation… they are. But meh…

16. I didn’t have a sixteen… …but sixteen has been my favorite number since I was 5 years old. —It had/has to do with divisibility and a bit of OCD symmetry-based number visuals fixations even my 5 year old brain went with.

-m

Great post, thanks for the detailed insights and learnings over the years.

 

[mep1811]

The snorkel is only an advantage in dusty conditions if you use a pre-cleaner. I don't have one on my 200 Series but did on my FJ60. I had a Donaldson pre-cleaner on it. The amount of dust , sand and insects it captured was remarkable.

 

[Markuson]

The snorkel is only an advantage in dusty conditions if you use a pre-cleaner. I don't have one on my 200 Series but did on my FJ60. I had a Donaldson pre-cleaner on it. The amount of dust , sand and insects it captured was remarkable.

View attachment 3008221

Even being raised from hood level via standard scoop still helps. But ya, surely nothing will keep crud out like a pre-cleaner.

 

[Markuson]

To reiterate my #11 above…

 

[2014 LEX 570 GA]

Extended breathers accompany many snorkel installs
The starter has a vent/drain at the bottom with a kink in it specifically to avoid water ingress
By A/C unit do you mean the fresh air intake in the cowl or the compressor? Proper bow-wake technique will avoid water in the cowl. The compressor is a non-issue. With the engine continuing to operate specifically because of the snorkel install, people can actually get the vehicle out of the water to stop the water getting into the cowl intake if things get that bad. And your repair bill will certainly be less than the $15k needed for a new motor. As @nwfl4runner and many said, it's insurance. I'll add, it's not a landing craft, and most people aren't hoping it will be.

My biggest concern with deep water would be if it's very sandy or muddy.. alternator brushes can be a problem then.

Sorry to hijack dorkle discussion, but re: starter motor breather, I am told that you cannot affix an extended breather line to it for the reason you describe, so there are only five breather lines that need to be addressed (2 diff, 1 transfer, 2 gearbox).

I also read somewhere else in forum that AHC reservoir on LX 570 should have two breathers as well, but wondering if anyone else can confirm?

 

[lcforlife]

My friend literally hydrolocked his 2016 driving through puddles to fast and intaking water. Rare yes, but it does happen.

That being said…..

Get a snorkel if you want the peace of mind.
Get a snorkel if you simply like the looks.

If you don’t like snorkels than don’t get one. And if you need to make yourself feel better by making fun of those people who have them than that’s your choice.

For the record, I don’t have a snorkel but I don’t care one cent if you do We can still be friends.

 

[bloc]

My friend literally hydrolocked his 2016 driving through puddles to fast and intaking water. Rare yes, but it does happen.

Stock front bumper or aftermarket?

 

[Docwyte]

My truck came with one. I wasn't too happy with the looks of it, but now that I've got the Rhino bumper it blends in better. It also gives more protection since I've got the Rhino bumper...