Tinker's latest brutal review of LC250 (6 Viewers)

[Zill]

The incurable angst from the 200 crowd has more to do with a loss of perceived social exclusivity than actual Land Cruisers. It reveals far more about how some people identify themselves and assign themselves self worth than meaningful differences between trucks.

It's pretty tiresome really, and it must suck for new members of the Land Cruiser community who've come to our forum only to find incessant and often petty bashing of their not-cheap and pretty sweet new Land Cruiser 250.

It’s not about social exclusivity, but rather, how the 250 does not hold up to the LC nameplate, and we don’t have a replacement rig after the 200’s start to wear out overtime if we want to keep the Toyota badge. It doesn’t ride nearly as good as the 200 (even old 200’s with 200k+ miles), but it’s brand new and 17 year newer technology? What other manufacturer is doing that to their top end product?

Did they really need to cheap out on the LC and put it below the 4Runner in terms of running gear? The new top executives at Toyota are going down the wrong path, and Akio would have never signed off on this being the only LC offered here without having some guilt involved with that decision. The new executives? They’re in it to make a quick buck, and have no qualms to trick people and ride on the LC reputation that was built for 55+ years.

Coming from a 200 owner, the 250 doesn’t hold up to what I expect from a LC, and yes many owners are somewhat enjoying their 250 (especially the ones coming from a wrangler or a 5th gen 4Runner), but they’re missing out on so much more compared to the full size LC platform. I hope they don’t drive a 200 or they will feel the same feeling. Ignorance is bliss I guess…

Seldom are people jumping from a 200 to a 250 and thoroughly enjoying the experience after the new car honeymoon wears off, and that’s also coming from people who’s 200’s are getting long in the tooth. The 250 doesn’t scratch the itch, and we need to look for greener pastures elsewhere (not from Toyota).

 

[Noctilucent]

It’s not about social exclusivity, but rather, how the 250 does not hold up to the LC nameplate, and we don’t have a replacement rig after the 200’s start to wear out overtime if we want to keep the Toyota badge. It doesn’t ride nearly as good as the 200 (even old 200’s with 200k+ miles), but it’s brand new and 17 year newer technology? What other manufacturer is doing that to their top end product?

Did they really need to cheap out on the LC and put it below the 4Runner in terms of running gear? The new top executives at Toyota are going down the wrong path, and Akio would have never signed off on this being the only LC offered here without having some guilt involved with that decision. The new executives? They’re in it to make a quick buck, and have no qualms to trick people and ride on the LC reputation that was built for 55+ years.

Coming from a 200 owner, the 250 doesn’t hold up to what I expect from a LC, and yes many owners are somewhat enjoying their 250 (especially the ones coming from a wrangler or a 5th gen 4Runner), but they’re missing out on so much more compared to the full size LC platform. I hope they don’t drive a 200 or they will feel the same feeling. Ignorance is bliss I guess…

Seldom are people jumping from a 200 to a 250 and thoroughly enjoying the experience after the new car honeymoon wears off, and that’s also coming from people who’s 200’s are getting long in the tooth. The 250 doesn’t scratch the itch, and we need to look for greener pastures elsewhere (not from Toyota).

What exactly am I missing out on I owned a 100 series. To me, The 250 feels exactly like my old 100 series but it's missing the tailgate and the black hole cargo room. When I look at it, I see my 100 series when I drive it takes me back to my 100 series. I could go out and buy a 200 series today paid in full, But I don't because to me the 250 has all the charm my 100 series had except the tailgate and the blackhole but it's new brand new! I hope one of you convince me to get a 200 I really really really do because I'm a fanatic about the tailgate and the cargo room. you said the 250 does not hold up to the LC nameplate. It really depends which series, If you're saying it doesn't hold the same ethos as the station wagon series I may agree with you but this isn't a station wagon series, it's a light duty land cruiser, the last Light duty land cruiser had a barn door, I hate barn doors. This one has a hatch that goes up to sheild from the elements I like a lot of the changes they've made and the power generator something the 200 cannot match. Which is annoying cause now I want it ALL. I want a 200 series with a 2400w inverter and all this badass tech that this 250 has. As far as the 250 scratching the itch it depends who you are, If you're someone that loves the light duty Land cruiser platform 4runners/gx or someone with an old 200 and doesn't care for the tailgate and you wheel a lot and don't use it to haul around a massive amount of at once, then the light duty land cruiser will most certainly scratch the itch. The 250 is high quality, I've heard people talk about how poor materials were used yadda yadda the materials are nice in the 250 lexus quality level your getting every penny you paid for. Same with the 200 you get what you pay for I'm sure it's just older which isn't an insult, Like I said I could go out and buy a 200 today it's just the 250 offers a lot and that inverter is just so underated and could be the 250s biggest strength. I respect both for what they bring to the table, and the 250 most certainly holds up to the LC nameplate it's a light duty LC not the station wagon. I like'em both for what they offer and you get what you pay for right now they're about equal in value for the most part and they reflect that when you consider everything it boils down to what your needs are. I'm on the razors edge of both. The real heartbreak is Toyota removed the tailgate from the 300 and the LX, that's a real shame and honestly, The true hyperfocused energy we're seeing from the station wagon crowed should be a channeled protest on bringing the tailgate back to the station wagon series.

 

[Rednexus]

I own a "light duty Prado" and have not owned a 200. When I was looking for a SUV, the 100 was on my list, but the resale on a 100 (at that time) was simply too high - they were literally 2X the price of a used GX470 with the same mileage and condition.

I am not a fan of a 250 (on paper - haven't driven one yet) for the following reasons:

1. It's too heavy (5,700 pounds). That's as much as a LC200, 800# more than a GX470, and within 100 pounds of a F150 Raptor that is vastly more capable.
2. Despite the heft, it has the same drivetrain components (lighter 8.2" rear axle) as the previous 4Runner/GX460. Suspension links/brackets are also lighter.
3. Despite the turbo and hybrid system, acceleration is slow (8.0s 0-60 time - same as a 5th gen 4Runner).
4. Given these detractions, the price is (IMO) too high. It should have been a high $40K/low $50K rig.

On paper the rig is a downgrade from my 18-year old, 8.2-swapped GX470 with the exception of better tech and better unloaded* fuel economy. With this rig being so darn porky, it should have a 9.5" rear differential, beefier suspension links, and more power, especially given the cost.

If Toyota had kept the curb weight at around 5,000# and the cost at $50K, I think it would have been a very nice rig.

*Reports from LC250 owners on here note towing MPG slightly worse than I observe in my GX470.

 

[Noctilucent]

I own a "light duty Prado" and have not owned a 200. When I was looking for a SUV, the 100 was on my list, but the resale on a 100 (at that time) was simply too high - they were literally 2X the price of a used GX470 with the same mileage and condition.

I am not a fan of a 250 (on paper - haven't driven one yet) for the following reasons:

1. It's too heavy (5,700 pounds). That's as much as a LC200, 800# more than a GX470, and within 100 pounds of a F150 raptor that is vastly more capable.
2. Despite the heft, it has the same drivetrain components (lighter 8.2" rear axle) as the previous 4Runner/GX460. Suspension links/brackets are also lighter.
3. Despite the turbo and hybrid system, acceleration is slow (8.0s 0-60 time - same as a 5th gen 4Runner).
4. Given these detractions, the price is (IMO) too high. It should have been a high $40K/low $50K rig.

On paper the rig is a downgrade from my 18-year old, 8.2-swapped GX470 with the exception of better tech and better fuel economy. With this rig being so darn porky, it should have a 9.5" rear differential, beefier suspension links, and more power, especially given the cost.

If Toyota had kept the curb weight at around 5,000# and the cost at $50K, I think it would be a very nice rig.

I doubt any of that would matter if you daily drove it you're smile would increase. I like the fact that the drive train share the same components as the 4R/GX I see this as a massive pro not a con. More Parts, and a bigger pool of experienced etc. As far as the speed *shrug* it's plenty fast. The Price? No way is this a 50k rig espeically the premium at 50k I'd feel I would have stolen the thing! mpg is actually decent on mine avrg 20mpg in the city way higher on the hwy. Keep your gx man. If it makes you happy keep it. But I assure you the 250 is not a rip off. you get exactly what you pay for if this is the configuration that you need. There's a lot of IFS we wish for. Just find the rig that comes closest to meeting all your needs. None will be perfect, but hopefully, you can get close. For me it might be a 200 with the most powerful inverter I can find and an extended fuel tank and a modded screen. Or a modded 250 with a slide out tailgate and hope for an extended fuel tank in the future..

 

[Hiluxforever]

I doubt any of that would matter if you daily drove it you're smile would increase. I like the fact that the drive train share the same components as the 4R/GX I see this as a massive pro not a con. More Parts, and a bigger pool of experienced etc. As far as the speed *shrug* it's plenty fast. The Price? No way is this a 50k rig espeically the premium at 50k I'd feel I would have stolen the thing! mpg is actually decent on mine avrg 20mpg in the city way higher on the hwy. Keep your gx man. If it makes you happy keep it. But I assure you the 250 is not a rip off. you get exactly what you pay for if this is the configuration that you need. There's a lot of IFS we wish for. Just find the rig that comes closest to meeting all your needs. None will be perfect, but hopefully, you can get close. For me it might be a 200 with the most powerful inverter I can find and an extended fuel tank and a modded screen. Or a modded 250 with a slide out tailgate and hope for an extended fuel tank in the future..

New hybrid 4runner and GX use the 9.5" axle. It uses the J150 8.2", big truck for a little axle.

Its the J120 chassis all over again.

 

[Noctilucent]

New hybrid 4runner and GX use the 9.5" axle. It uses the J150 8.2" big truck for a little axle.

Yeah see that doesn't matter one bit to me. that changes absolutely nothing I haul stuff, go off grid camping, and daily drive this thing. that won't affect me in anyway except when I see it on paper. makes me realize how much those type of things don't matter in most uses.

 

[Phillyd2]

The good news is that people no longer need to decide between a premium prestige legacy (and pay for it) and can just pick between a 250 or 4R based on its looks and the image they want to project. Both meets the same average consumer grade standards of how they will be using it.

Those wanting a little more can pick the GX but even that has lost some of it’s status. For those who don’t want to compromise can still have the LX, if they can get past the looks and neutered clearances.

 

[Noctilucent]

The good news is that people no longer need to decide between a premium prestige legacy (and pay for it) and can just pick between a 250 or 4R based on its looks and the image they want to project. Both meets the same average consumer grade standards of how they will be using it.

Those wanting a little more can pick the GX but even that has lost some of it’s status. For those who don’t want to compromise can still have the LX, if they can get past the looks and neutered clearances.

Well, This certainly commands prestige with all the smiles and conversations people start at gas stations, But I didn't buy this for prestige. I bought it because it's still a Tahara and Hino made land cruiser machine that has the ability to be used as swiss army knife of an suv I can camp inside with the ac going and engine off cook meals with electricity made by the LC and charge power banks (I think the new LX700h and 4R get this benefit too), Haul things around and daily drive all in one. Makes total sense. Good job Toyota but I wish you put a tailgate on it and found a different place for the battery and drank reg fuel. that'd be the icing on the cake for me. overall. It's a damn good light duty LC. and it most certainly reflects that ''presitge'' with all the rubber necking and compliments I get.

 

[Heckraiser]

100% correct. Remember, we’re not in their room they’re in ours. That says a lot about who’s really moving forward. But their attitude is killing the LC250 activity here on IH8MUD. This place has gone dead silent while the other 250 forum is buzzing. Nobody wants to share their positive stories about their new beloved Land Cruiser, only to have a group of vindictive elitists stomp the joy right out of them. Totally uncivilized.

In semi-fairness, this thread started in the 200 forum and was moved here by a mod, so all the 200 guys posting in this thread were already subscribed before it ended up here. BUT, if what you say is true, I think we should all shut up and let the thread die. I don't hang out in the 250 forum, but keeping all sections active. friendly and helpful is vital to the future of MUD, especially as the volume of older models dwindle from roadworthiness. A 200 fanatic has no business jumping into the 250 section just to rain on the parade.

 

[Specialeyes]

It doesn’t ride nearly as good as the 200 (even old 200’s with 200k+ miles), but it’s brand new and 17 year newer technology? What other manufacturer is doing that to their top end product?

I feel the same way about the ride quality and would like to know if anyone here can explain why that is? I have driven now two 250 premiums, a 550 premium and OT+, and 6th gen 4R SR5 and TRD OR. All of them have a firmer, harsher ride than my 200 or even my 5th gen 4R TRD Pro (that one may be due to the fox suspension). Is it just a matter of fine tuning suspension on these new models?

 

[Heckraiser]

Probably tuned from the factory to do better in emergency lane change type maneuvers.

 

[joseywales]

I really do not get why somebody would not buy a 2016+ LX570 or LC200 with say 100k miles on it and drive it to 350k or so instead of getting a new (or newer) 250 at similar pricing.

There is this thing called “warranty” and “leasing” that don’t apply to 5-10 year old vehicles. I 100% agree with your statement for cash buyers though. For me, the 250 is a lease for my company, and a 100% tax write off. Buying something for cash is idiotic in my case. If there was a brand new 200 or 300 option in North America, I possibly wouldn’t have a 250 sitting in the driveway.

And don’t mention the LX 600/700 as an option. They are just too ugly for my taste.

 

[Rednexus]

I feel the same way about the ride quality and would like to know if anyone here can explain why that is? I have driven now two 250 premiums, a 550 premium and OT+, and 6th gen 4R SR5 and TRD OR. All of them have a firmer, harsher ride than my 200 or even my 5th gen 4R TRD Pro (that one may be due to the fox suspension). Is it just a matter of fine tuning suspension on these new models?

It also could be chassis stiffness. I think the frame in the 120/150 chassis is actually a bit flexy - it's only 1/8" thick steel and does not have a particularly large cross-section. It dates to 2002, after all. The TNGA-F has undoubtedly a much more refined design and probably included more stiffness. Lastly, all of the new SUVs seem to have 18" or larger tires (which perplexes me). If you have 17s on your older rigs, they'll definitely ride better.

 

[Phillyd2]

Well, This certainly commands prestige with all the smiles and conversations people start at gas stations, But I didn't buy this for prestige. I bought it because it's still a Tahara and Hino made land cruiser machine that has the ability to be used as swiss army knife of an suv I can camp inside with the ac going and engine off cook meals with electricity made by the LC and charge power banks (I think the new LX700h and 4R get this benefit too), Haul things around and daily drive all in one. Makes total sense. Good job Toyota but I wish you put a tailgate on it and found a different place for the battery and drank reg fuel. that'd be the icing on the cake for me. overall. It's a damn good light duty LC. and it most certainly reflects that ''presitge'' with all the rubber necking and compliments I get.

Based on priorities then you certainly picked the right one. Enjoy it in good health.

 

[TeCKis300]

The good news is that people no longer need to decide between a premium prestige legacy (and pay for it) and can just pick between a 250 or 4R based on its looks and the image they want to project. Both meets the same average consumer grade standards of how they will be using it.

Those wanting a little more can pick the GX but even that has lost some of it’s status. For those who don’t want to compromise can still have the LX, if they can get past the looks and neutered clearances.

Well, This certainly commands prestige with all the smiles and conversations people start at gas stations, But I didn't buy this for prestige. I bought it because it's still a Tahara and Hino made land cruiser machine that has the ability to be used as swiss army knife of an suv I can camp inside with the ac going and engine off cook meals with electricity made by the LC and charge power banks (I think the new LX700h and 4R get this benefit too), Haul things around and daily drive all in one. Makes total sense. Good job Toyota but I wish you put a tailgate on it and found a different place for the battery and drank reg fuel. that'd be the icing on the cake for me. overall. It's a damn good light duty LC. and it most certainly reflects that ''presitge'' with all the rubber necking and compliments I get.

This is exactly the silliness Toyota was banking on.

"Commanding premium prestige legacy?!"

Even owners of full fat LC owners don't ever use those words.

 

[Phillyd2]

This is exactly the silliness Toyota was banking on.

"Commanding premium prestige legacy?!"

Even owners of full fat LC owners don't ever use those words.

At least we can agree that their marketing department earned their keep.

 

[Noctilucent]

This is exactly the silliness Toyota was banking on.

"Commanding premium prestige legacy?!"

Even owners of full fat LC owners don't ever use those words.

Relax, man I literally said I don’t care about prestige. But I’m not blind to the fact that it gets noticed. So what’s with all the snarky jabs?

 

[gasman4u]

This is exactly the silliness Toyota was banking on.

"Commanding premium prestige legacy?!"

Even owners of full fat LC owners don't ever use those words.

I command premium prestige legacy everytime someone doesn’t acknowledge the “HE” characteristics of my 2016+ 200 series. Even amongst the 200 fanboi’s there’s hierarchy. Now that you know this is expected, it should be pushed as hard as CCN’s (all hail his name) advice on everything Toyota related - from light oil, to not using anything NOT Toyota branded, etc.

 

[Specialeyes]

At least we can agree that their marketing department earned their keep.

Marketing sells more than anything these days. We all know it’s not their dealerships!

 

[MRego]

Marketing sells more than anything these days. We all know it’s not their dealerships!

Oh man, I am sure Toyota marketing secured huuuge bonuses for pulling off the "new land cruiser" stunt in the US.