Tinker's latest brutal review of LC250

[scarkinsmel]

You might not believe it but I very much respect the GX/Prado and even LC250. Broader than that, I'm not beholden to Toyota/Lexus and really can appreciate the value of all cars. I've owned a 4Runner myself, vouched for my parents to own an GX, and have had a 100-series and 200-series. They each have merits and a place, because we all have different priorities and needs.

I run with a hugely varied group of rigs. Each has strengths to suit their owners needs. And each has compromises, including the 200-series. But for what I need to do, nothing comes close.

And that's the crux of this discussion. There are expectations for what a full fat Land Cruiser will do, carry, or tow. The new LC250 is a wholly different beast that can do many overlapping things and do them well. If 75% of the capability and capacities is what's needed in trade for more efficiency, then the LC250 can be a great answer. But it does not have the same core strength of a full fat Land Cruiser if full strength is the need and expectation.

That's not meant to cast shade on the LC250. It's just a fact. Potential owners should respect and understand the difference, so as not to buy the wrong vehicle, or project what others may or may not need.

View attachment 3928657

Try a Fiat Panda in 4x4 configuration. Sorry, but it’ll out wheel your 200, the 100, any 4Runner the 250. I’d suspect it’ll run any trail in the US as if it was a two lane gravel road.

I’ve seen them run mountain bike trails up and down the Dolomites, Alps, The Colli Berici, take on forest roads in Italy, Germany and Austria none of the vehicles we drive would dare.

As you say, your vehicle has merits, but if off-roading is all you care about the Fiat Panda is a beast. I wouldn’t want to daily it, however.

I’ve seen them drive up stuff I can’t ride my MTB up and not even sound like they are working. A full fat LC has no chance.

As for towing, hauling, fuel economy and anything else the Full Fat LC isn’t even 10% as capable as a Panda, except maybe people hauling. Those things tow trailers up those trails with logging equipment and come down the trails full of wood no issues. Just watching those northern Italians use the Panda as a work truck is unbelievable and gave me a new respect for smaller 4x4s.

I’m curious though, you seem to know a lot about the 250s capabilities being only 75% of what you drive, have you driven one the same as you drive yours?

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Maybe I’m thinking wrong, but didn’t they also have to put Holden fans in the Ranger at the beginning of the video.

Yes, the Ford Ranger was overheating and they grabbed the radiator fans from an old abandoned car in the desert.

I tried to take notes of who needed what repairs on that trip.

Ford Ranger needed the extra fans due to an overheating problem and then it went limp mode due to the water crossings. I don’t remember it needed an alternator.

The 79 broke an axle and they had to repair it. Also needed an alternator replaced. And it had to be pushed by the 250 in the water crossings.

The Nissan patrol made it but it was struggling with the clutch and an oil leak, but it actually made it and it pushed the Ford across the water crossings.

Prado 120 needed alternator replaced and then water got in the transmission. Transmission failed due to water ingress.

Mitsubishi Pajero had the most issues by they bought it for $500AUD and didn’t really do any preventive maintenance so it overheated due to a radiator leak, fuel tank leak, stalling in water often, alternator repair.

New Prado 250 diesel…nada!

 

[Specialeyes]

Today I learned there is a Fiat Panda.

 

[TeCKis300]

Try a Fiat Panda in 4x4 configuration. Sorry, but it’ll out wheel your 200, the 100, any 4Runner the 250. I’d suspect it’ll run any trail in the US as if it was a two lane gravel road.

I’ve seen them run mountain bike trails up and down the Dolomites, Alps, The Colli Berici, take on forest roads in Italy, Germany and Austria none of the vehicles we drive would dare.

As you say, your vehicle has merits, but if off-roading is all you care about the Fiat Panda is a beast. I wouldn’t want to daily it, however.

I’ve seen them drive up stuff I can’t ride my MTB up and not even sound like they are working. A full fat LC has no chance.

As for towing, hauling, fuel economy and anything else the Full Fat LC isn’t even 10% as capable as a Panda, except maybe people hauling. Those things tow trailers up those trails with logging equipment and come down the trails full of wood no issues. Just watching those northern Italians use the Panda as a work truck is unbelievable and gave me a new respect for smaller 4x4s.

I’m curious though, you seem to know a lot about the 250s capabilities being only 75% of what you drive, have you driven one the same as you drive yours?

Thanks for joining the conversation. Panda what? That might as well be a non-sequitur. None of us are buying any flavor of LC for pure offroad-ability. Just get a Jeep.

I tow 8k lbs. 2200lbs payload. Seating 7 for long road trips. I have 500mile fuel range opening up the ability to comfortably solid distances. Granted I'm outside of some of the 200-series ratings too, but that's always been the strength of the full fat LC to have ample core strength and margin to take things further.

Sure, you can mod an LC250 too, but these are well outside of the LC250s capacities of 6k tow capacity, 1175 lb payload, 5 seater, 17.9G without a good option today for an aux tank. No one is going to tow that kind of load on a 8.2" diff. With 37s. On 2mm thick suspension brackets.

So no, the LC250 is not capable of what I use my LX570 for.

 

[Noctilucent]

Thanks for joining the conversation. Panda what? That might as well be a non-sequitur. None of us are buying any flavor of LC for pure offroad-ability. Just get a Jeep.

I tow 8k lbs. 2200lbs payload. Seating 7 for long road trips. I have 500mile fuel range opening up the ability to comfortably solid distances. Granted I'm outside of some of the 200-series ratings too, but that's always been the strength of the full fat LC to have ample core strength and margin to take things further.

Sure, you can mod an LC250 too, but these are well outside of the LC250s capacities of 6k tow capacity, 1175 lb payload, 5 seater, 17.9G without a good option today for an aux tank. No one is going to tow that kind of load on a 8.2" diff. With 37s. On 2mm thick suspension brackets.

So no, the LC250 is not capable of what I use my LX570 for.

View attachment 3930410

Talk to me dirty, I used my 4R as a Workhorse that thing had an impressive payload. I took it slow, stuck to the backroads, the 5th gen handled it like a champ. I may add a 200 series because this new 250 doesn't pale in comparison to my 5th gens payload. the LC 200 has less payload than the 5th gen 4runner right? correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[calokie]

"With the same robust GA-F platform as the "300" series, the "250" series has pursued exceptional off-road performance."
Toyota Launches All-New Land Cruiser "250" Series in Japan | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website - https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/40658942.html

Tinkers Brutally Subjective Review

So after owning my 250 for almost a week, I've come to the realization that Tinkers LC250 "subjective review" is a ploy to further hype FJ market value. I did try the useless pony trick of rocking the truck during road speeds VIA the steering wheel, I found this not practical or useful/didn't prove much. The LC250 has great steering feel and I love it. Has great passing power even for California highway speeds, I would love to see Tinker passing cars in the FJ and watching the gas gauge take a dive (and not actually pass anything) I imagine the driver fatigue would be similar or worse than my previously owned 2017 TRD Offroad V6 Tacoma.
Im coming off an 80 series and own a 2024 GLS AMG and 2022 Tesla. The only complaint i have on the 250 is the navigation system being based off apple car play.
Sure the tank isn't 19 gallons like the FJ but aftermarket support soon will follow. The FJ range is 220 (ish miles) and the LC250 is 350 (ish) Miles

As far as looks... *Subjective Opinion Alert*
The 250 is the best looking Land Cruiser to hit the USA market (FJ62 a close 2nd). The 200 series LC looks like a corn fed 1st gen Highlander, the 300 has a severe case of butterface, however the LX 300 version is beautiful.

 

[hoser]

Talk to me dirty, I used my 4R as a Workhorse that thing had an impressive payload. I took it slow, stuck to the backroads, the 5th gen handled it like a champ. I may add a 200 series because this new 250 doesn't pale in comparison to my 5th gens payload. the LC 200 has less payload than the 5th gen 4runner right? correct me if I'm wrong.

View attachment 3930430

This guy wins the overloading contest.

 

[2021 LC200]

Main mechanical parts (drive train, axles, suspension arms etc) survived in the Ford Ranger so by deduction that at least confirms the 250 Prado key components are as good as a Ford Ranger. By the way I do believe even the light duty 250 is pretty decent and better than a Ford Ranger. How it compares to the 120, 150 , 200 and 300 series only time and more adventures will tell.

 

[Heckraiser]

This guy wins the overloading contest.

Haha, the little safety triangle hanging off the bumper is a nice touch! Reminds me of #lumberjetta

 

[2021 LC200]

Howdy Doody…

I guess it shows how good the Land Cruiser and Crown Vic are…

 

[Noctilucent]

Howdy Doody…

I guess it shows how good the Land Cruiser and Crown Vic are…

''best car entry'' on the door lol

 

[Jetboy]

Talk to me dirty, I used my 4R as a Workhorse that thing had an impressive payload. I took it slow, stuck to the backroads, the 5th gen handled it like a champ. I may add a 200 series because this new 250 doesn't pale in comparison to my 5th gens payload. the LC 200 has less payload than the 5th gen 4runner right? correct me if I'm wrong.

View attachment 3930430

Yes. The 5th gen 4Runner has a higher payload in some configurations in some years. Toyota changed it a bunch of times over the generation. The std payload was 1,550lbs in 4x4 models. But some years toyota cut that roughly in half for the Trail Edition models. Not sure why, but some years around 2017 or 18 had a door sticker of 880lbs payload for the Trail/TRD models. Then it went back to the full 1550lb rating. The LC200 payload rating was 1320. New 4Runner is 1506 for the normal models and as low as 985lbs for the Trail Hunter. But LC250 is 1367 that's configured practically identically to the 4Runner Trail Hunter.

I don't put much weight on payload (pun intended). It's usually set by Toyota based on the door jamb tire pressure calculated tire load rating minus the vehicle weight. So, it's not really a rating of anything related to the vehicle physical properties other than the stock tires. The good example is the TH 4Runner - it has the 9.5" rear axle but payload is still over 500lbs lower than the models with the 8.2" rear axle. The Tundra payload is something like 1320 on my truck. But with E rated tires and airbags it hauls 3k lbs without any drama. Very similar feel in real world hauling to my F250 that had a payload of 2,770.

My 4R was tough as nails though. I don't understand why Toyota insists on having 4 midsize BOF models that are all interchangeable for 95% of uses. The new 4Runer is disappointing in a lot of ways. The opening height is significantly lower and the rear seat folding kinda sucks. The LC250 without the hybrid with a tune on the 4cyl would be excellent. The mild tunes on the 2.4 are netting around 330hp/390ftlbs and you get the full cargo area and presumably about 500lbs more payload capacity.

 

[Noctilucent]

Yes. The 5th gen 4Runner has a higher payload in some configurations in some years. Toyota changed it a bunch of times over the generation. The std payload was 1,550lbs in 4x4 models. But some years toyota cut that roughly in half for the Trail Edition models. Not sure why, but some years around 2017 or 18 had a door sticker of 880lbs payload for the Trail/TRD models. Then it went back to the full 1550lb rating. The LC200 payload rating was 1320. New 4Runner is 1506 for the normal models and as low as 985lbs for the Trail Hunter. But LC250 is 1367 that's configured practically identically to the 4Runner Trail Hunter.

I don't put much weight on payload (pun intended). It's usually set by Toyota based on the door jamb tire pressure calculated tire load rating minus the vehicle weight. So, it's not really a rating of anything related to the vehicle physical properties other than the stock tires. The good example is the TH 4Runner - it has the 9.5" rear axle but payload is still over 500lbs lower than the models with the 8.2" rear axle. The Tundra payload is something like 1320 on my truck. But with E rated tires and airbags it hauls 3k lbs without any drama. Very similar feel in real world hauling to my F250 that had a payload of 2,770.

My 4R was tough as nails though. I don't understand why Toyota insists on having 4 midsize BOF models that are all interchangeable for 95% of uses. The new 4Runer is disappointing in a lot of ways. The opening height is significantly lower and the rear seat folding kinda sucks. The LC250 without the hybrid with a tune on the 4cyl would be excellent. The mild tunes on the 2.4 are netting around 330hp/390ftlbs and you get the full cargo area and presumably about 500lbs more payload capacity.

Thanks! That's really good to know about the tires and payload! after I eat through these factory tires I'll get some At4ws (my 4R had those tires they were exceptional)

 

[Jetboy]

Thanks! That's really good to know about the tires and payload! after I eat through these factory tires I'll get some At4ws (my 4R had those tires they were exceptional)

It's not obvious where it comes from and I've asked in about every setting I can with someone who would have inside information about it and that's the only answer I've found although it still doesn't explain the half rating for a few years of 4Runner. But that seems to be the most common defining factor. And it matches up to the payload vs curb weight differences in most cases. But it doesn't seem to be exact.

For example if I take the stock Tundra tires at 30psi the load rating is 114 - so using a load/inflation chart the load capacity is 1962 times 4 is 7848, then apply a 10% light truck load factor reduction is 7063lbs. Subtract the curb weight of plus one 150lb passenger is 5800 and we end up with 1268lbs of payload. My math doesn't end up exactly at the 1320 - I'm sure my numbers aren't exactly what Toyota is using, but I think it's pretty close. The LC200 specs 32psi. At 32psi the tire load rating after adjustment is 7592 minus (5934 +150) = 1508. That's a bit higher than the door jamb payload.

 

[scarkinsmel]

Thanks for joining the conversation. Panda what? That might as well be a non-sequitur. None of us are buying any flavor of LC for pure offroad-ability. Just get a Jeep.

I tow 8k lbs. 2200lbs payload. Seating 7 for long road trips. I have 500mile fuel range opening up the ability to comfortably solid distances. Granted I'm outside of some of the 200-series ratings too, but that's always been the strength of the full fat LC to have ample core strength and margin to take things further.

Sure, you can mod an LC250 too, but these are well outside of the LC250s capacities of 6k tow capacity, 1175 lb payload, 5 seater, 17.9G without a good option today for an aux tank. No one is going to tow that kind of load on a 8.2" diff. With 37s. On 2mm thick suspension brackets.

So no, the LC250 is not capable of what I use my LX570 for.

View attachment 3930410

So, you’ve not driven one?

 

[scarkinsmel]

So you’ve not driven one?

And wow, you tow an airstream…. Wow you lifted your Lexus….

Wow… you’re certain your suspension (you know lifted and all and set up for all that gnar gnar you run) is actually rated for the trailer?

I left the thread at the beginning. I own a LC 250, 4Runner, FJ and a power wagon. So, if needed I can tow what I want, I can run any trail I want and I don’t think the GX, while a fantastic vehicle, is all that. Driven several, driven a bunch of older Land cruisers and for some of my own reasons don’t own any.

I appreciate you think, you don’t know, as you apparently don’t own, drive, use a LC250 is only 75% the vehicle you LOVE. I don’t go on your forum and say how bad your GX is compared to what I drive. Enjoy what you drive, I do. Enjoy what you tow. I sold my airstream and tear drop as I didn’t find them fun to use. You do, great.

But, frankly, I enjoy and find my LC250 and Power Wagon so much better to drive than the GX. The FJ is not fun at highway speed and my 4Runner is super but comparatively not nearly as nice as my LC. So, I do have a pretty good idea. Thanks, but I’m not throwing shade, I’m just speaking from what I know.

Enjoy.

 

[Zill]

So you’ve not driven one?

And wow, you tow an airstream…. Wow you lifted your Lexus….

Wow… you’re certain your suspension (you know lifted and all and set up for all that gnar gnar you run) is actually rated for the trailer?

I left the thread at the beginning. I own a LC 250, 4Runner, FJ and a power wagon. So, if needed I can tow what I want, I can run any trail I want and I don’t think the GX, while a fantastic vehicle, is all that. Driven several, driven a bunch of older Land cruisers and for some of my own reasons don’t own any.

I appreciate you think, you don’t know, as you apparently don’t own, drive, use a LC250 is only 75% the vehicle you LOVE. I don’t go on your forum and say how bad your GX is compared to what I drive. Enjoy what you drive, I do. Enjoy what you tow. I sold my airstream and tear drop as I didn’t find them fun to use. You do, great.

But, frankly, I enjoy and find my LC250 and Power Wagon so much better to drive than the GX. The FJ is not fun at highway speed and my 4Runner is super but comparatively not nearly as nice as my LC. So, I do have a pretty good idea. Thanks, but I’m not throwing shade, I’m just speaking from what I know.

Enjoy.

You do realize that’s a LX and not a GX? GX is based on the Prado platform and the LX is the full fat LC platform for a reason. It can handle heavy duty tasks far easier than the prado can. Whether that be an upgraded drivetrain, better cooling, thicker frame, beefier suspension… it’s all part of the package.

 

[Noctilucent]

Wait, Doesn't it now share the same platform TNGA-F the ''full fat'' 300 series LC platform has?

 

[rexington14]

You do realize that’s a LX and not a GX? GX is based on the Prado platform and the LX is the full fat LC platform for a reason. It can handle heavy duty tasks far easier than the prado can. Whether that be an upgraded drivetrain, better cooling, thicker frame, beefier suspension… it’s all part of the package.

Except this falls apart just a little bit now that the GX550 Overtrail (which is a... Prado) has a higher towing capacity than either "full fat" 200 or 300.

Also, for most model years of the "full fat" 200 Lexus variant (LX570) - the official towing capacity is actually only 7k lbs. The new GX Overtrail Prado crushes that and will tow 9k lbs, and the new 4 cylinder Toyota LC Prado tows 6k lbs.

 

[TeCKis300]

Talk to me dirty, I used my 4R as a Workhorse that thing had an impressive payload. I took it slow, stuck to the backroads, the 5th gen handled it like a champ. I may add a 200 series because this new 250 doesn't pale in comparison to my 5th gens payload. the LC 200 has less payload than the 5th gen 4runner right? correct me if I'm wrong.

View attachment 3930430

Love the 4R. I had a 4th Gen V8 4x4 Limited. Still remember it fondly but space is pretty limited for a growing family. Payload is often dictated by suspension fitment that has to ride the balance of comfort/load/articulation. Any LC200 will have more payload margin and space than a 4R, especially when fitted with uprated suspension.

Here's the LX570 that hauling 20 bags of concrete. Stock AHC suspension. Zero sag in ride height.

So you’ve not driven one?

And wow, you tow an airstream…. Wow you lifted your Lexus….

Wow… you’re certain your suspension (you know lifted and all and set up for all that gnar gnar you run) is actually rated for the trailer?

I left the thread at the beginning. I own a LC 250, 4Runner, FJ and a power wagon. So, if needed I can tow what I want, I can run any trail I want and I don’t think the GX, while a fantastic vehicle, is all that. Driven several, driven a bunch of older Land cruisers and for some of my own reasons don’t own any.

I appreciate you think, you don’t know, as you apparently don’t own, drive, use a LC250 is only 75% the vehicle you LOVE. I don’t go on your forum and say how bad your GX is compared to what I drive. Enjoy what you drive, I do. Enjoy what you tow. I sold my airstream and tear drop as I didn’t find them fun to use. You do, great.

But, frankly, I enjoy and find my LC250 and Power Wagon so much better to drive than the GX. The FJ is not fun at highway speed and my 4Runner is super but comparatively not nearly as nice as my LC. So, I do have a pretty good idea. Thanks, but I’m not throwing shade, I’m just speaking from what I know.

Enjoy.

This is embarrassing. You're punching 'down' on a LX and GX, without knowing what is what, yet tell us how it really is with an LC250? I respect the LC250. But know it's place because it is the baby brother to the GX550. And don't bother test driving an LX570 because it's just a GX. LOL

Wait, Doesn't it now share the same platform TNGA-F the ''full fat'' 300 series LC platform has?

No. Don't parrot what the publications continue to get wrong. Shared architecture is not the same as shared parts. Shared architecture allows for modularity and parts interchangeable, but does not mean exact parts. A library of parts can be built to suit different needs and structural requirements. So mother Toyota can mix and match drivetrain, diffs, components, to build tailored vehicles to meet different duty cycles and customer needs.

The GX550 and LX600 have bespoke frames. Key things of note are larger frame cross sections for things like body mounts, 2 front bump stops on the LX vs 1 on the GX.

Except this falls apart just a little bit now that the GX550 Overtrail (which is a... Prado) has a higher towing capacity than either "full fat" 200 or 300.

Also, for most model years of the "full fat" 200 Lexus variant (LX570) - the official towing capacity is actually only 7k lbs. The new GX Overtrail Prado crushes that and will tow 9k lbs, and the new 4 cylinder Toyota LC Prado tows 6k lbs.

Nothing but respect for the GX550. It's distinctly a cut above the LC250 which has gone further down in the model lineup.

Would I get one today if I didn't have the LX570? Possibly? But I also appreciate aspects only found in the full fat land cruiser 200-series. Tailgate! Heavier duty frame sections, suspension components, AHC, and finer interior fitments. If I were total my LX570 today, I would turn around and get another LX570. More power, more structure, better suspension articulation. I do push this vehicle pretty hard and use every bit of it.

Part of the allure with Toyota's larger wagons is being the swiss knife to do anything and everything, with aplomb. Can't do that that with a Power Wagon and FJ, while towing a large trailer, on the same trip.