Suspension Articulation RTI Tracker (2 Viewers)

[TeCKis300]

Been watching the new beastly generation of factory off-roaders come out like TRX, Bronco Sasquatch, Colorado ZR2 Bison, and soon to be Raptor R and Bronco Raptor. Keen on how far they're pushing the limits of factory capability and suspension articulation. I have been keeping this tracker that's been buried in other threads. Thought it would deserve its own as I make another update for lots of '21 models including the new F150 Raptor w/37s that scored 537 RTI, and Bronco 2-door Sasquatch coming in at 648.

Really shows how well the 200-series continues to hold its own, for a design first delivered in '08, even against this new breed.

Would love to see how some modded 200s do. I think some simple extended travel shocks, 34s+, and lower offsets would put it into the 700+. Theory until we see some results in real life.


RTI Score Chart:

'18 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 724
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 718
'22 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe (bar off): 701
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 687
'22 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 392 (bar off): 684
'20 Toyota Land Cruiser Heritage Edition: 661
'08 Power Wagon: 655
'21 Bronco 2-Door First Edition 35" Sasquatch (bar off): 648
'17 Toyota Land Cruiser: 647
'17 Lexus LX570 (AHC normal, 20" wheels): 645
'21 Ford Bronco First Ed (bar off): 618
'21 Ford Raptor: 618
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar off): 607
'17 Ford Rapter Supercab: 603
'21 Ram 1500 TRX: 602
'93 Toyota Land Cruiser 80-series: 593
'16 Dodge Power Wagon: 589
'20 Lexus LX570 Sport w/chin spoiler (AHC high, 21" wheels): 588
'22 Ineos Grenadier: 585
'95 Land Rover Discovery: 588
'10 Toyota 4runner w/KDSS: 584
'94 Land Rover Defender 90: 580
'17 Land Rover LR4: 560
'22 Tacoma TRD Pro: 559
'22 Ford F-150 Raptor 35s: 559
'22 Ford F-150 Tremor: 557
'21 Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road (w/KDSS): 555
'14 Ford Raptor: 551
'20 Power Wagon (w/ disconnecting sway): 538
'21 Ford Raptor w/37" tire package: 537
Mercedes G63 AMG (last gen): 534
'23 Ford F-150 Raptor R: 525
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar on): 523
'21 Bronco 2-Door First Edition 35" Sasquatch (bar on): 522
'04 GX470 w/KDSS: 519
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 518
'17 Land Rover Discovery: 516
'07 Toyota FJ Cruiser: 515
'22 Rivian R1T (Normal): 510
'18 Dodge Power Wagon: 510
Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison: 501
'21 Ford Bronco First Ed (bar on): 498
Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro: 492
'21 Chevy Colorado ZR2: 489
'22 Rivian R1T (Rock Crawl Mode aka high): 488
'20 Land Rover Defender 110 SE: 486
'14 Toyota Tundra TRD Pro: 484
Jeep Gladiator Mojave: 476
Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road: 468
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar on): 458
'17 Land Rover LR4 (high mode): 457
'22 Ford Ranger Tremor: 441
'20 F-250 Superduty Tremor: 436
'22 Tundra TRD Pro: 436
'22 Nissan Frontier Pro 4X: 435
'04 GX470 (no KDSS): 428
'15 Ford F150: 420
'14 Ram Power Wagon: 412
Chevy Colorado Z71 (air dam removed): 410
'19 Ram Rebel: 406
'17 Land Rover Discovery (high mode): 377
'11 Mercedes-Benz G-Class 300 CDI Professional: 376
'17 Nissan Armada: 362
'20 Sequoia TRD Pro: 351
'20 Rav4 TRD Off-Road: 308

 

[HSTexan]

I haven't seen most of the videos--what was the reason the '20 had a higher RTI than the 17?

 

[04UZJ100]

The big difference here @TeCKis300 is……There are cars that are MARKETED as being off-road worthy and cars engineered from the ground up to be off-road worthy.

It’s very easy for Toyota to recycle a platform, increase the wheel well size and throw some kewl 37s on - but you and I both know that’s not in Toyota’s DNA.

The trucks in your list are nothing other than disposable, instabro, conversation pieces with maybe the exception of the Jeep - but that’s still a piece of junk.

 

[TeCKis300]

I haven't seen most of the videos--what was the reason the '20 had a higher RTI than the 17?

Could be within the margin of measurement error as the '20 climbed ~1.5" further up the ramp, equating to about .3" more vertical. Just as likely, the '20 model is a Heritage Edition. Forum sleuths have been able to identify that it get longer coils IIRC at the rear. Potentially allowing it better push down the unloaded tires. @bloc might be able to give us more details about the spring differences between normal and HE cruisers.

 

[CT3]

Do we have any measurements from users here on how a 200 fairs after a lift and larger tires? Should we expect similar RTI after an average size lift and say, 33-34 inch tires?

I’m ready to schooled, teach me something!

 

[bloc]

Been watching the new beastly generation of factory off-roaders come out like TRX, Bronco Sasquatch, Colorado ZR2 Bison, and soon to be Raptor R and Bronco Raptor. Keen on how far they're pushing the limits of factory capability and suspension articulation. I have been keeping this tracker that's been buried in other threads. Thought it would deserve its own as I make another update for lots of '21 models including the new F150 Raptor w/37s that scored 537 RTI, and Bronco 2-door Sasquatch coming in at 648.

Really shows how well the 200-series continues to hold its own, for a design first delivered in '08, even against this new breed.

Would love to see how some modded 200s do. I think some simple extended travel shocks, 34s+, and lower offsets would put it into the 700+. Theory until we see some results in real life.


RTI Score Chart:

'18 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 724
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 718
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 687
'20 Toyota Land Cruiser Heritage Edition: 661
'21 Bronco 2-Door First Edition 35" Sasquatch (bar off): 648
'17 Toyota Land Cruiser: 647
'17 Lexus LX570 (AHC normal, 20" wheels): 645
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar off): 607
'17 Ford Rapter Supercab: 603
'21 Ram 1500 TRX: 602
'20 Lexus LX570 Sport w/chin spoiler (AHC high, 21" wheels): 588
'10 Toyota 4runner w/KDSS: 584
'17 Land Rover LR4: 560
'21 Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road KDSS: 555
'21 Ford Raptor w/37" tire package: 537
Mercedes G63 AMG (last gen): 534
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar on): 523
'21 Bronco 2-Door First Edition 35" Sasquatch (bar on): 522
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 518
'17 Land Rover Discovery: 516
Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison: 501
Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro: 492
'21 Chevy Colorado ZR2: 489
'14 Toyota Tundra TRD Pro: 484
Jeep Gladiator Mojave: 476
Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road: 468
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar on): 458
'17 Land Rover LR4 (high mode): 457
'15 Ford F150: 420
'14 Ram Power Wagon: 412
Chevy Colorado Z71 (air dam removed): 410
'17 Land Rover Discovery (high mode): 377
'17 Nissan Armada: 362

The 200 doing so well despite the age of the platform, even among these supposed off-road worthy vehicles, suggests to me there is a practical upper limit for things like suspension travel and articulation while still being road worthy. The fact that the bars on the KDSS cruiser are automatically "disconnecting" is a luxury feature.. disconnect the bars on the JLUR and you see what happens.

But yeah I don't think it'll get a whole lot higher without being a ground-up build as @04UZJ100 says.

I haven't seen most of the videos--what was the reason the '20 had a higher RTI than the 17?

Could be within the margin of measurement error as the '20 climbed ~1.5" further up the ramp, equating to about .3" more vertical. Just as likely, the '20 model is a Heritage Edition. Forum sleuths have been able to identify that it get longer coils IIRC at the rear. Potentially allowing it better push down the unloaded tires. @bloc might be able to give us more details about the spring differences between normal and HE cruisers.

Agree it's mostly margin of error. The difference between the 17 and 20HE is about 2% based on really simple math.. I'm not sure if RTI is linear for that math to really work out, but the point is made.

The HE spring project got off the rails when I realized we really need a spring dyno to characterize these things, and just how many part numbers there are for non-HE springs. What we did seem to figure out was the HE coils were less wraps of a thinner wire than a base. Yes thinner wire seems lower rate (aka more flex), but less wraps effectively shortens the wire that is twisting/bending, offsetting it being thinner. Somewhere there is an engineer that knows how to calculate this stuff.. but that ain't me.

 

[TeCKis300]

Do we have any measurements from users here on how a 200 fairs after a lift and larger tires? Should we expect similar RTI after an average size lift and say, 33-34 inch tires?

I’m ready to schooled, teach me something!

Would love to be able to answer this but I haven't seen any specific examples with measurements. @turbo8 was able to provide some of his travel numbers with King suspension and it is a pretty substantial increase over stock, so I wouldn't be surprised if his rig were able to put up some serious RTI. Front travel increasing from 9" to 11.5"; rear going from 10" to 10.5".

If anyone has a modded rig with access to a forklift, we could measure equivalent RTI scores form the vertical lift.

@tdcruiser406080100 was able to corroborate the stock HE score with his test here showing 665 RTI.

 

[bloc]

I would add that whether the lift helps RTI depends on whether it was well matched to the build. Going too stiff with springs for the weight of the rig will limit up travel, even if you gain down travel, which is what I have going on at the moment. I haven't ramped mine but know from experience offroad I'm losing some up travel in front due to not being able to stuff to the bump stops.

Most likely my score is better than stock because I don't think I lost travel in front.. the lost up travel is offset by extra down.. and in the rear I am able to use the marginally increased down travel and still stuff the uphill side. Once I get a lower rate spring in front I should gain significantly.

All this to say.. lift and suspension should be approached as one element of a build, that needs to work in synchrony with the rest.

 

[TeCKis300]

Added Rivian R1T scores to the tracker.

Normal height: 510
Rock Crawl Mode (aka high): 488

10.2" and 10.6" front to rear travel respectively, which compares well to the 200-series @ 9" and 10" (easily made 10" and 10" with front LC spacer mod). RTI takes into account wheelbase, so trucks are inherently at a disadvantage here. Still, all this new tech doesn't hold a candle to the 200-series with it's "golden ratio" as Toyotas designers call it.

Hydraulic cross mounted shock technology. Hrmm, where have we seen that before...

Thanks @tbisaacs for pointing me to this vid:

 

[Itsky]

Insane that the only thing that beats a 200 in RTI is a wrangler rubicon and I know which I'd rather road trip my family in.

 

[Tex68w]

Insane that the only thing that beats a 200 in RTI is a wrangler rubicon and I know which I'd rather road trip my family in.

My thoughts exactly and the 200 is on smaller tires stock too.

 

[MikeVpdx503]

Has anyone tested a 200 prior to 2017 model year listed above? I wonder what difference there might be between 2008 and 2016

 

[bloc]

Has anyone tested a 200 prior to 2017 model year listed above? I wonder what difference there might be between 2008 and 2016

There should be zero difference, or at least within margin of error.. of which there is a bunch on this test. There were very slight changes to springs, but not even on both sides of the vehicle.

 

[Heckraiser]

Added Rivian R1T scores to the tracker.

Normal height: 510
Rock Crawl Mode (aka high): 488

10.2" and 10.6" front to rear travel respectively, which compares well to the 200-series @ 9" and 10" (easily made 10" and 10" with front LC spacer mod). RTI takes into account wheelbase, so trucks are inherently at a disadvantage here. Still, all this new tech doesn't hold a candle to the 200-series with it's "golden ratio" as Toyotas designers call it.

Hydraulic cross mounted shock technology. Hrmm, where have we seen that before...

Thanks @tbisaacs for pointing me to this vid:

I see future Rivian owners junking the big brembo brakes so they can fit smaller wheels.

 

[04UZJ100]

I see future Rivian owners junking the big brembo brakes so they can fit smaller wheels.

I pity the people who think Rivian will actually remain in business for an extended period of time let some be able to support their vehicles as they age.

 

[TeCKis300]

Need to find a score for the 300-series, but this bad boy's limber and putting a leg out

 

[jekyllman]

Been watching the new beastly generation of factory off-roaders come out like TRX, Bronco Sasquatch, Colorado ZR2 Bison, and soon to be Raptor R and Bronco Raptor. Keen on how far they're pushing the limits of factory capability and suspension articulation. I have been keeping this tracker that's been buried in other threads. Thought it would deserve its own as I make another update for lots of '21 models including the new F150 Raptor w/37s that scored 537 RTI, and Bronco 2-door Sasquatch coming in at 648.

Really shows how well the 200-series continues to hold its own, for a design first delivered in '08, even against this new breed.

Would love to see how some modded 200s do. I think some simple extended travel shocks, 34s+, and lower offsets would put it into the 700+. Theory until we see some results in real life.


RTI Score Chart:

'18 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 724
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 718
'22 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe (bar off): 701
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 687
'22 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 392 (bar off): 684
'20 Toyota Land Cruiser Heritage Edition: 661
'21 Bronco 2-Door First Edition 35" Sasquatch (bar off): 648
'17 Toyota Land Cruiser: 647
'17 Lexus LX570 (AHC normal, 20" wheels): 645
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar off): 607
'17 Ford Rapter Supercab: 603
'21 Ram 1500 TRX: 602
'93 Toyota Land Cruiser 80-series: 593
'20 Lexus LX570 Sport w/chin spoiler (AHC high, 21" wheels): 588
'95 Land Rover Discovery: 588
'10 Toyota 4runner w/KDSS: 584
'94 Land Rover Defender 90: 580
'17 Land Rover LR4: 560
'21 Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road KDSS: 555
'21 Ford Raptor w/37" tire package: 537
Mercedes G63 AMG (last gen): 534
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar on): 523
'21 Bronco 2-Door First Edition 35" Sasquatch (bar on): 522
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 518
'17 Land Rover Discovery: 516
'07 Toyota FJ Cruiser: 515
'22 Rivian R1T (Normal): 510
Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison: 501
Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro: 492
'21 Chevy Colorado ZR2: 489
'22 Rivian R1T (Rock Crawl Mode aka high): 488
'14 Toyota Tundra TRD Pro: 484
Jeep Gladiator Mojave: 476
Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road: 468
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar on): 458
'17 Land Rover LR4 (high mode): 457
'15 Ford F150: 420
'14 Ram Power Wagon: 412
Chevy Colorado Z71 (air dam removed): 410
'17 Land Rover Discovery (high mode): 377
'11 Mercedes-Benz G-Class 300 CDI Professional: 376
'17 Nissan Armada: 362

Coming to you all as a Land Rover guy, because of this great list. Thanks for putting this together! Can you tell me the source on the Land Rover data? I’ve been wanting to ramp test my ‘05 LR3 but don’t have access so this is great info. I’ve also wanted to test after disconnecting sway bars and in the various off road modes to find the optimal settings for crawling my rig.

Thanks for the feedback.

PS just sold my 2006 GX470. Any ramp data on those?

 

[tbisaacs]

Coming to you all as a Land Rover guy, because of this great list. Thanks for putting this together! Can you tell me the source on the Land Rover data? I’ve been wanting to ramp test my ‘05 LR3 but don’t have access so this is great info. I’ve also wanted to test after disconnecting sway bars and in the various off road modes to find the optimal settings for crawling my rig.

Thanks for the feedback.

PS just sold my 2006 GX470. Any ramp data on those?

428-519 (with KDSS)

Stock GX470 suspension travel spec (w/ and w/o KDSS comparison)

I've looked and looked and cannot come up with a definitive, true spec of the suspension travel length of a comparable GX with and without KDSS. There's anecdote to 4" greater travel in the 120 FAQ, and once I found a metric spec for a prado 120 travel length, but I cannot find that again...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[TeCKis300]

Coming to you all as a Land Rover guy, because of this great list. Thanks for putting this together! Can you tell me the source on the Land Rover data? I’ve been wanting to ramp test my ‘05 LR3 but don’t have access so this is great info. I’ve also wanted to test after disconnecting sway bars and in the various off road modes to find the optimal settings for crawling my rig.

Thanks for the feedback.

PS just sold my 2006 GX470. Any ramp data on those?

Sorry, I don't recall the reference. But I did try to do my due diligence when collecting to make sure numbers came from quality sources and that they're apples to apples with 20° ramps scores.

Thanks to @tbisaacs , posted the GX470 numbers. Really interested in GX460 RTI scores, but couldn't find any. Or even 300-series.

 

[TeCKis300]

Might as well revisit this tracker with some updates. Some notable new entries, and possibly disappointment with some TRD flavors. The Tundra/Sequoia sisters are limited by their sway bars without disconnect capabilities.

'21 Ford Raptor: 618
'22 Tacoma TRD Pro: 559
'22 Tundra TRD Pro: 436
'20 Sequoia TRD Pro: 351