Time to sell my Montero and buy a LX!

[grinchy]

I believe the actual valving in the shocks is fixed, but AHC does meter the fluid flow in the shocks.
The LX570 Android units are around $1200, you are right that the stack is integrated. Android is getting pretty reliable at this point, but the boot times are not zero yet.
I had my amplifier fail and rather than replace it I used aftermarket DSP and amplifiers. Packaging was a bit of an issue to get it all under the driver seat, but even though I only replaced the subwoofer driver, I have great imaging and sound, as well as a bluetooth direct link (via the DSP). Just replacing the subwoofer driver and amplification would probably get most of the way there.

 

[AnyMal]

GROM or one of the full screen/hvac control replacements (there are a few "name brand" and then a bunch on ali express). I think i've finally convinced myself to get a GROM. But waiting for another group buy...500 is ridiculous enough, 650 is too much for the cheapskate in me.

I too am growing ver tired of the auto tax.

 

[chriscosta416]

I believe the actual valving in the shocks is fixed, but AHC does meter the fluid flow in the shocks.
The LX570 Android units are around $1200, you are right that the stack is integrated. Android is getting pretty reliable at this point, but the boot times are not zero yet.
I had my amplifier fail and rather than replace it I used aftermarket DSP and amplifiers. Packaging was a bit of an issue to get it all under the driver seat, but even though I only replaced the subwoofer driver, I have great imaging and sound, as well as a bluetooth direct link (via the DSP). Just replacing the subwoofer driver and amplification would probably get most of the way there.

My knowledge of car audio is bad, really bad - I just want carplay in it - but I assume for a good one to play nice with the center stack I am dropping a pretty penny?

 

[AnyMal]

I believe the actual valving in the shocks is fixed, but AHC does meter the fluid flow in the shocks.
The LX570 Android units are around $1200, you are right that the stack is integrated. Android is getting pretty reliable at this point, but the boot times are not zero yet.
I had my amplifier fail and rather than replace it I used aftermarket DSP and amplifiers. Packaging was a bit of an issue to get it all under the driver seat, but even though I only replaced the subwoofer driver, I have great imaging and sound, as well as a bluetooth direct link (via the DSP). Just replacing the subwoofer driver and amplification would probably get most of the way there.

Im still curious on all this (and model year diffs). Last i played with car audio JL clean sweep came out.
I am happy with my system but im curious for the future. As long as its not all optical...

 

[lx200inAR]

Here's some notes from Toyota.

 

[grinchy]

Im still curious on all this (and model year diffs). Last i played with car audio JL clean sweep came out.
I am happy with my system but im curious for the future. As long as its not all optical...

The ML system (at least in Gen 1) has L, R, and SPDIF (coax) available at the amplifier. What you lose is the main volume, balance, fader, 'surround mode', CD recording, nav voice (probably could be integrated), and emergency phone (already it doesn't work due to cell standards out of date on Gen 1, and probably could be integrated if you care too).
I never used nav voice, and the DSP comes with a real rotary volume control that conveniently fits in the ashtray. As for balance and fader, it should be clear that the DSP is far superior for this.
The DSP takes about 15 seconds to boot. It plays at the last volume in this time . . .
So accepting that the volume knob is not integrated, it pretty much works as the existing stack, it's all the same sources, but you do get an additional bluetooth source on the DSP.
Getting a 12 way DSP was a minor headache.
Getting 12 channels of amplification under the seat is a medium headache.
Otherwise it's pretty straightforward.
I did iterate a couple of times (I tried some really cheap DSPs the first time around in a waterfall).
All the details in my build thread.

 

[TeCKis300]

My Montero has a real wood steering wheel - soooo real? I guess?

Does the AHC control the shock valving as well? I was reading the thread of turbo8 and saw he deleted the system and added traditional shocks. When he pulled out the OEM AHC shock, that thing is massive - the shaft looks beefier than any stock OEM suv shock and seems thicker as a Koni RAID maybe?

Here's a dashboard of major AHC control aspects the system manages. It's active so it's able to tailor for load or condition. Credit to @lx200inAR . It may give you a better insight into the broad control the system has. A quick short list:
- Individual shock damping
- Switches between 2x front spring rates
- Cross linking for
- roll control
- front to rear axle damping
- Height (progressive spring rate)

DIY Smartphone Scan Gauge - OBD Fusion

I did this and couldn’t locate one. I checked all sections under the Toyota advanced pack. If you bought the Toyota PID pack for $10 it should be there. This is where mine is. You may need to rescan all of the PIDs while in Park if it’s not showing up… it’s possible it’s hidden as OBD Fusion...

forum.ih8mud.com

The aftermarket is trying to come out with active systems, like the Icon DEV. Yet it barely touches what AHC can do. If you look at reviews of the new Rivian EV and how they glorify the suspension, well, AHC has key architecture similarities.

 

[AnyMal]

The ML system (at least in Gen 1) has L, R, and SPDIF (coax) available at the amplifier. What you lose is the main volume, balance, fader, 'surround mode', CD recording, nav voice (probably could be integrated), and emergency phone (already it doesn't work due to cell standards out of date on Gen 1, and probably could be integrated if you care too).
I never used nav voice, and the DSP comes with a real rotary volume control that conveniently fits in the ashtray. As for balance and fader, it should be clear that the DSP is far superior for this.
The DSP takes about 15 seconds to boot. It plays at the last volume in this time . . .
So accepting that the volume knob is not integrated, it pretty much works as the existing stack, it's all the same sources, but you do get an additional bluetooth source on the DSP.
Getting a 12 way DSP was a minor headache.
Getting 12 channels of amplification under the seat is a medium headache.
Otherwise it's pretty straightforward.
I did iterate a couple of times (I tried some really cheap DSPs the first time around in a waterfall).
All the details in my build thread.

So you are up-mixing 2ch into a "hexophonic" surround through your new DSP? How does it image?
What is the SPDIF spitting out? Multichannel PCM? I guess i never thought about this but it does need to play surround DVDs.
Wether it up or down mixes whatever channels is a mystery to me though.

I have so much homework on MUD to read through... Your build is on the top of the list you hit a lot of the major mods well!

 

[grinchy]

So you are up-mixing 2ch into a "hexophonic" surround through your new DSP? How does it image?
What is the SPDIF spitting out? Multichannel PCM? I guess i never thought about this but it does need to play surround DVDs.
Wether it up or down mixes whatever channels is a mystery to me though.

I have so much homework on MUD to read through... Your build is on the top of the list you hit a lot of the major mods well!

Dodecaphonic surround! How do you think ML does the CD to surround mapping? Its got a tiny, circa 2005 DSP in there. They are quite a bit better now, I promise. My DSP can control everything, frequencies to each driver, delay to each driver, relative volume of each driver, custom EQ on each driver, etc. I'm only using a tiny bit of all this, and my imaging is totally on point!

The Coax digital is all the encoded information, so you just get the DSP with the licenses you need. I am a tiny bit sad that mine doesn't have any licenses, so I lost the DVD Audio, which I did enjoy. But, I also had just 3 or 4 DVD Audio discs, so, tiny tears. I literally don't watch DVD video in my car. My phone screen is way better than the 15 fps nav screen. My rig had separate RSE, so that wasn't a concern to preserve, it was already aftermarket. Frankly the dedicated bluetooth source was far more important to me. You can get a DSP with all the codecs licensed and all your surrounds will be fine.

 

[1world1love]

I am late to this thread but would just reiterate what many people have probably already said - the AHC is not the limiting factor in being able to cover any terrain in a LX. I have taken mine over/through just about everything except Fordyce/Con level trails. Not because it wouldn’t handle it, but because I am just not interested in doing any damage to my truck. But I do have a lot of fun with it and I love AHC.

If you are looking at something suitable for Fordyce, then possibly the 200 is not the best choice. Again, not because they aren’t capable, but they are a different kind of vehicle than say a Rubicon.

But if you have your heart set on a 200 and plan to do trails like Fordyce, then you may want to either go with a LC, or look at some of the folks that have modded LXs to fit 37 inch wheels while keeping AHC intact. That is a better value than ripping AHC out, IMO.

You could add lockers and re-gear, add some armor, and likely go anywhere you wanted, and still enjoy a plush ride back home.

To each his own though. Whatever you decide, I look forward to seeing pics from rubi.

 

[AnyMal]

Dodecaphonic surround! How do you think ML does the CD to surround mapping? Its got a tiny, circa 2005 DSP in there. They are quite a bit better now, I promise. My DSP can control everything, frequencies to each driver, delay to each driver, relative volume of each driver, custom EQ on each driver, etc. I'm only using a tiny bit of all this, and my imaging is totally on point!

The Coax digital is all the encoded information, so you just get the DSP with the licenses you need. I am a tiny bit sad that mine doesn't have any licenses, so I lost the DVD Audio, which I did enjoy. But, I also had just 3 or 4 DVD Audio discs, so, tiny tears. I literally don't watch DVD video in my car. My phone screen is way better than the 15 fps nav screen. My rig had separate RSE, so that wasn't a concern to preserve, it was already aftermarket. Frankly the dedicated bluetooth source was far more important to me. You can get a DSP with all the codecs licensed and all your surrounds will be fine.

Answered in spades thanks!
If youre in TX ... you know who will need a demo then.

Its nice to know the factory system actually does surround, instead of summing a fake center and up-mixing stereo and low-passing to the sub...
I really like the ML system, but i do think it is a bit low on power. It is clean and linear though which i like a lot since i dont blast it.
My only real issue with the signature is the front crossover/filtering. I can hear a couple of gaps in that spectrum and all i really want is a full broad EQ to play with like i use to have in BMWs. Probably would attempt a slightly larger sub too if i was in there.

DVD in the car well im with you there. No kids but i already removed the rear screens. I usually use my phone mounted upfront to do everything anyway.
I dont see the need for them at all, an ipad mounted there would be infinitely superior in every way imaginable.

 

[Heckraiser]

Late to the party, but just wanted to say welcome

Never been a fan of Mitsu "mixed bag" quality (mostly stemming from my import tuner days ), but there is no denying the Montero is one handsome 4x4, 1st gen is up there close to the 60 series in terms of "stage presence"

I'm sure I'm just echoing some of the regulars here, but:

When I was looking for a newer 4x4 to take over some of the more mundane truck duties from my 80, I did drive a LC 200 and frankly enjoyed it more than the LX. My initial research led me to prefer the traditional suspension +KDSS of the LC as well. I ended up with a LX, like most people, due to price and availability. Having owned it for a while, I'm not sore about it at all. AHC is basically a free lift kit and retains the factory ride quality and adjustability. Starting out with a LC, you'd have to spend a good $3k to get a lifted suspension on par with AHC and you'd still have less room in the wheelwells for 34-35 tires. So at least with regard to the suspension, I think I got the better platform. With regard to everything else (aesthetics, interior functionality, infotainment), the LC is still the superior truck. Just this guy's opinion.

I think with the 200 platform overall, the biggest limiting factor in offroad ability is just it's sheer size. Many of the more challenging trails are going to be a lot tougher to avoid body damage compared to something smaller.

 

[AnyMal]

I did drive a LC 200 and frankly enjoyed it more than the LX.

Alright boys, sound the alarm, its war! JK

You gotta drive AHC on the same wheels and tires really.
The LC does feel "smoother" but not in the way that i would call good. Just like the GX, more floaty but smoother.
Bumps and roughness it goes the AHC hands down. The LC very much feels like a Toyota if you know what i mean.
Body roll and handling i wont even go into that. There are some differences but that is adjustable in AHC to meet every part of that spectrum to your taste.
Something about AHC fluid and the way its setup you have such good road feedback. I really didn't expect that.
I always know what the front end is doing and thats saying a lot in this size and cat of vehicle.

AHC is in a different class altogether IMO. I haven't driven as many toys as others here so ill listen but not very well LOL.
As far as best ride, Cadillacs mag suspension is probably it for anything with a solid rear axle and now that is gone too.
I haven't gotten into a new one yet so really i don't know what you would even look to for ride quality standards.
Cant compare full independent setups so its LX / LC vs G wagon, VS a bunch of trucks i guess?
Nissan / Infinity? What are they doing with their platform? Older fleet than Toyota LOL.

Glad to hear what others have to say though.

 

[chriscosta416]

Alright boys, sound the alarm, its war! JK

You gotta drive AHC on the same wheels and tires really.
The LC does feel "smoother" but not in the way that i would call good. Just like the GX, more floaty but smoother.
Bumps and roughness it goes the AHC hands down. The LC very much feels like a Toyota if you know what i mean.
Body roll and handling i wont even go into that. There are some differences but that is adjustable in AHC to meet every part of that spectrum to your taste.
Something about AHC fluid and the way its setup you have such good road feedback. I really didn't expect that.
I always know what the front end is doing and thats saying a lot in this size and cat of vehicle.

AHC is in a different class altogether IMO. I haven't driven as many toys as others here so ill listen but not very well LOL.
As far as best ride, Cadillacs mag suspension is probably it for anything with a solid rear axle and now that is gone too.
I haven't gotten into a new one yet so really i don't know what you would even look to for ride quality standards.
Cant compare full independent setups so its LX / LC vs G wagon, VS a bunch of trucks i guess?
Nissan / Infinity? What are they doing with their platform? Older fleet than Toyota LOL.

Glad to hear what others have to say though.

The new Nissan and Infinity Armada and independent all around and have air suspension as well. The newer patrols overseas ride somewhat on the same drive-train as the Armadas here but have bigger, stronger diffs, beefier lower and upper control arms.

 

[TeCKis300]

The new Nissan and Infinity Armada and independent all around and have air suspension as well. The newer patrols overseas ride somewhat on the same drive-train as the Armadas here but have bigger, stronger diffs, beefier lower and upper control arms.

Hint hint, AHC is not air suspension commonly associated with systems found in lesser vehicles. Hydraulic suspension better describes it.

Nissan actually came out with a similar HBMC suspension to go toe to toe with Toyota in the international markets.

 

[chriscosta416]

Hint hint, AHC is not air suspension commonly associated with systems found in lesser vehicles. Hydraulic suspension better describes it.

Nissan actually came out with a similar HBMC suspension to go toe to toe with Toyota in the international markets.

Good point, I have to get that out of my head then. If that is the case then I misspoke about the Nissan as well. US models have HBMC which I thought was Air. Thanks for the correction

 

[chriscosta416]

So as I continue to prep my Montero for sale and look for an LX - any thing I should look for? any specifics to check specific to the LX570?

My budget fits the 08-12 years so is any year preferred over the other?

Also, anyone have a dog barrier in theres? Like the Aussia Travelall ones? My dog likes to jump way to much

 

[AnyMal]

So as I continue to prep my Montero for sale and look for an LX - any thing I should look for? any specifics to check specific to the LX570?

My budget fits the 08-12 years so is any year preferred over the other?

Also, anyone have a dog barrier in theres? Like the Aussia Travelall ones? My dog likes to jump way to much

All the standard testing and history stuff but the important bits are:

Radiator
Water Pump
Alternator
AHC

Everything else that may be faulty is a fluke on the 200.
Those are the only weak spots and easy to see if they were replaced / serviced.

AHC well, you want to try it all out, check that it works smoothly and quickly and that it changes damping modes sufficiently.
Obviously test drive everything else and make sure to use the locker and transfer case.

I would def have someone look at it if like me you are not mechanically experienced in such things.

 

[chriscosta416]

All the standard testing and history stuff but the important bits are:

Radiator
Water Pump
Alternator
AHC

Everything else that may be faulty is a fluke on the 200.
Those are the only weak spots and easy to see if they were replaced / serviced.

AHC well, you want to try it all out, check that it works smoothly and quickly and that it changes damping modes sufficiently.
Obviously test drive everything else and make sure to use the locker and transfer case.

I would def have someone look at it if like me you are not mechanically experienced in such things.

I like to think I am mechanically inclined, just trying to figure out the vehicles common issues or things to check. Thanks!

 

[AnyMal]

I like to think I am mechanically inclined, just trying to figure out the vehicles common issues or things to check. Thanks!

Those are it if even that.
As far as the book service, only needs fluids through the entire 150k mile schedule. No more timing belt.