I have a son who is a couple of years from getting his license, but I am already thinking (and he is already asking about) my FJ62 as his first car. It is a nice stock (other than a 2" OME lift with 31's) truck that is my daily driver. My sole concern is safety. I think about the lack of ABS, airbags, side impact beams, etc., and it gives me pause that I should put him something newer. On the flip side, its big and slow. Anyone have any info on the crash worthiness of a 60 series or thoughts on the matter in general? Thanks!
Thoughts on FJ62 as first car
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It's my first car as a licensed driver (I learned to drive I'm a combination of FJ62 and a Porsche 944 race car, complete opposites of the spectrum), it's been fine for me but just a little too slow for getting on the highway where it's hard to match traffic speed. Besides that it's fine, it certainly makes driving anything non-Land Cruiser way easier.
If anything, its too fast.
Can you swap in a normally aspirated 3B to fix that? I'm half serious about that.
I'm not convinced that things like ABS are a great idea for new drivers. It would be good for him to learn that the world can be a dangerous place, and that cars can hurt you. ABS, traction control, etc... Don't actually make the tires stick to the road any better, they just mask bad driving habits.
As to structure, a 60 is a really solid box. What it doesn't have in fancy engineered crush zones and side impact beams it makes up for in solid structure.
Dan
Can you swap in a normally aspirated 3B to fix that? I'm half serious about that.
I'm not convinced that things like ABS are a great idea for new drivers. It would be good for him to learn that the world can be a dangerous place, and that cars can hurt you. ABS, traction control, etc... Don't actually make the tires stick to the road any better, they just mask bad driving habits.
As to structure, a 60 is a really solid box. What it doesn't have in fancy engineered crush zones and side impact beams it makes up for in solid structure.
Dan
My 60 was my first car and it's still my only car.
As long as they learn to drive in it they will be okay on the road. Just remember it takes a 1/4 mile to stop and longer than that to get to 60mph
They actually don't, but shhh.
As long as they learn to drive in it they will be okay on the road. Just remember it takes a 1/4 mile to stop and longer than that to get to 60mph
They actually don't, but shhh.
I suspect the real answer has a lot to do with the new driver and the conditions he's going to be in.
Around here, there's enough traffic and 'fast- stopping' that you'd really want something
modern- a 62 just can't stop as fast as most everything else on the road, and a less-
experienced driver will need any advantage he can get. Nor does it handle like much, either.
However, Nashville's a slower- paced town, and maybe a 62 would be a better fit.
As to survivability, the pre- 100 Land Cruiser isn't going to do well in a collision.
It doesn't collapse enough, gently enough. And the 62's lack of airbags only makes it less so.
But for a careful driver in reasonable traffic, why not? If he'll be careful in it, it's
a lot better than an Accord he'll do stupid things in.
t
Around here, there's enough traffic and 'fast- stopping' that you'd really want something
modern- a 62 just can't stop as fast as most everything else on the road, and a less-
experienced driver will need any advantage he can get. Nor does it handle like much, either.
However, Nashville's a slower- paced town, and maybe a 62 would be a better fit.
As to survivability, the pre- 100 Land Cruiser isn't going to do well in a collision.
It doesn't collapse enough, gently enough. And the 62's lack of airbags only makes it less so.
But for a careful driver in reasonable traffic, why not? If he'll be careful in it, it's
a lot better than an Accord he'll do stupid things in.
t
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Buy your kid a used 850 series volvo, they have side impact airbags, abs, great crash safety ratings, reliable as mud, and you can pick them up all day under 150k miles for $3k. Did I mention the gigantic 4 wheel disc brakes that stop so hard your kidneys hurt? That's what I rock as my DD and I highly recommend it to everyone else.
The second thought on this is, more than likely the kid will be in at least some small bumper-blaster at least once by the time they are 21. Does your 62 deserve that kind of treatment, has it been that bad? then think, other boys in the cars, spilled sodas, that one smelly friend who doesn't seem to shower... you see where i'm going with this?
TobyB- in my experience people in the big nasty drive like crazy, then as soon as they get out of their cars, its sllllloooooowwwwwww doooooowwwwwwnnnnnn tiiiiiiiimmmmmmeeeeeee
The second thought on this is, more than likely the kid will be in at least some small bumper-blaster at least once by the time they are 21. Does your 62 deserve that kind of treatment, has it been that bad? then think, other boys in the cars, spilled sodas, that one smelly friend who doesn't seem to shower... you see where i'm going with this?
TobyB- in my experience people in the big nasty drive like crazy, then as soon as they get out of their cars, its sllllloooooowwwwwww doooooowwwwwwnnnnnn tiiiiiiiimmmmmmeeeeeee
Get him a '99-02-ish Camry with airbags. I really think the first car should be disposable, and an FJ62 is not. One slide into ditch and it will roll and be totaled.
After my buddy was in a head-on collision in my old '87 FJ60, I would get a newer car with crumple zones for a kid. The FJ60 body structure held up well - and transferred all the crash energy to the occupant, who spent most of a year recovering.
After my buddy was in a head-on collision in my old '87 FJ60, I would get a newer car with crumple zones for a kid. The FJ60 body structure held up well - and transferred all the crash energy to the occupant, who spent most of a year recovering.
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I drive like an old man (In a good way). I think it's important to learn to respect high center of gravity. It will also teah him (hopefully) to respect maintenance and that cars aren't powered by fairy dust.
My first car was an FJ40. I learned how to shift and how to drive slow and steady in that pig. Great first car for the gear head I became. Ultimately, the cost of gas did me in. The same might apply today with a 60.
If you're worried about a crash, don't confuse mass with safety. A modern small Honda will fare better than an old LC in a collision. In the other hand, backing into a parking bollard in an old truck will probably be less painful to your wallet.
If you're worried about a crash, don't confuse mass with safety. A modern small Honda will fare better than an old LC in a collision. In the other hand, backing into a parking bollard in an old truck will probably be less painful to your wallet.
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My first car was my '86 FJ60.
I think the key is to make him know that the car is HIS and not just "the car dad is letting me borrow". That's what made all the difference to me. ...Before you give him the keys get all kinds of ideas swirling around in his head about mods and projects that he can do on the cheap and places that it can take him in the summer.... get him hooked, or it will just be another car.
I don't think getting a newer car is much safer in the short term. Even a Camry can be driven pretty hard and dangerously. Last year I bought a 1991 Toyota MR2 for a "commuter car"
... I drove the crap out of that thing for 6 months on a lot of mountain roads that were a hair of oversteer away from some serious hospital time (or worse...)... my point is don't get him a fast first car, he WILL drive the crap out of it no matter what he says.
Oh, and teach him vehicle maintence if you can, he will thank you someday... plus, then you can have him fix your cars.
I think the key is to make him know that the car is HIS and not just "the car dad is letting me borrow". That's what made all the difference to me. ...Before you give him the keys get all kinds of ideas swirling around in his head about mods and projects that he can do on the cheap and places that it can take him in the summer.... get him hooked, or it will just be another car.
I don't think getting a newer car is much safer in the short term. Even a Camry can be driven pretty hard and dangerously. Last year I bought a 1991 Toyota MR2 for a "commuter car"
... I drove the crap out of that thing for 6 months on a lot of mountain roads that were a hair of oversteer away from some serious hospital time (or worse...)... my point is don't get him a fast first car, he WILL drive the crap out of it no matter what he says. Oh, and teach him vehicle maintence if you can, he will thank you someday... plus, then you can have him fix your cars.
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Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Solid advice here. Just because you want another LC, doesn't make it the right choice for a new driver. BTDT. Who is paying for fuel? What about insurance?
Older, mid sized Toyota or Honda would be perfect. Safe, reliable, not fancy. Just good solid runners. And when they get in an accident with it, which trust me, they will, you toss it and get another. If you can find a 4 cyl Camry with a 5 speed, that would be perfect.
Often best to look around at the family fleet and put them in the car you care the least about, assuming it's reasonably safe and mechanically solid. Kids are not kind to cars.
From my experience with my kids, they don't appreciate a car until they actually have to put their hand in their pocket and pay for it. The 60's have too much heritage to just pass onto our kids. So if he wants a 60 then buy one that needs a bit of work and work together with him to restore it, that worked for me a couple of times and builds greater relationships
I actually got my fj as my first real car, and two weeks after I was rear ended by a woman traveling at approximately 35-40 miles an hour
I just knew, I was gonna get out of my truck and see a destroyed rear end so I'm sure you can imagine my surprise when I couldn't even find a scratch on it!
She struck the rear bumper and slid underneath
I shoot at the old fenders I stripped off my fj during restoration an oftentimes bullets don't pass through.
These things are tough, they aren't sports cars, but they're certainly just as fun to drive (trust me, I know what I'm talking about), and your kid will feel like the coolest, toughest kid on earth when he steps out, but it doesn't end on the first day, or the second, or ever.
I'm 17, had my cruiser for almost a month and a half, and I never get where I'm going without a grin on my face.
That being said, something I see in teens with these trucks all too often, is an attitude of being a concrete commando
If your kid starts doing that, put him in a home.
I just knew, I was gonna get out of my truck and see a destroyed rear end so I'm sure you can imagine my surprise when I couldn't even find a scratch on it!
She struck the rear bumper and slid underneath
I shoot at the old fenders I stripped off my fj during restoration an oftentimes bullets don't pass through.
These things are tough, they aren't sports cars, but they're certainly just as fun to drive (trust me, I know what I'm talking about), and your kid will feel like the coolest, toughest kid on earth when he steps out, but it doesn't end on the first day, or the second, or ever.
I'm 17, had my cruiser for almost a month and a half, and I never get where I'm going without a grin on my face.
That being said, something I see in teens with these trucks all too often, is an attitude of being a concrete commando
If your kid starts doing that, put him in a home.
Also, to the people who worry about rolling
If he's got hi seatbelt on, he'll be fine
My oldest brother rolled my cruiser down the side of petit jean mountain and the worst injury he got was the marks on his butt from our dad!
If he's got hi seatbelt on, he'll be fine
My oldest brother rolled my cruiser down the side of petit jean mountain and the worst injury he got was the marks on his butt from our dad!
From my experience with my kids, they don't appreciate a car until they actually have to put their hand in their pocket and pay for it. The 60's have too much heritage to just pass onto our kids. So if he wants a 60 then buy one that needs a bit of work and work together with him to restore it, that worked for me a couple of times and builds greater relationships
I think this is genius, if hes the right kind of kid.
At first I was all for just give it to him, until I read the posts on here about how they are solid and can survive a crash, thats the wrong way to look at it,
youtube search "chevy crash test 1959 bel air", they do a head on collision from a "solid" boat 1959 bel air against a 2009 malibu to show solid is not good, the 59 bel air took lots of damage that it transmitted directly to the test dummys it was estimated any passengers would be dead on impact, while the malibu dummy would have had a broken leg becuase of the crumple zones.
So my point, if hes the kind of kid who would greatly appreciate the car and be a very defensive driver, then the land cruiser would be perfect, its slow, its heavy so it really handles whatever conditions the kid will experience without creating a panic situation since he could never get going fast enough to really get in a bad situation. If he does somehow get going too fast, then if hes got a good training (yeah that means you DAD) it will make hime a 10 times better driver than if you shove him in something that does everything but cook dinner. ABS can make things worse in the snow since its designed for dry pavement, but if you learn how to stop before the abs goes active then you get the best of both worlds, good driver in bad situations as well as technology that can keep you alive if you do have a human moment.
Unfortunately this is a very subjective question that is based on the type of kid he is, what type of training he has, and what you do to ensure that he is a "safe" driver.
My first car/truck was a 1985 Mazda B2000 sundowner (power NOTHING) and that thing just went. I abused the crap out of it (she was called FUBAR for a reason) and it had bee passed down from my dad to my brother to me. The thing is that when something went wrong with it, my dad didnt just do it or take it to a shop (simple 4banger engine that was easy to work on) he made me pay for a portion of the parts and we got the Chiltons and went to town on it. This gave me the appreciation of taking care of my vehicles (always washed them before a date and my parents always offered the "nicer" car but the truck was mine so I wanted to take it) and learn some maintenance skills.
With these trucks, your son would have a decent learning curve ahead of him but would learn the appreciation of not only taking care of his own vehicle but also the appreciation of accomplishment as he fixed things here and there. Yeah I am sure his buddies will have nice new trucks and cars but something that everyone else has, while he would have something unique that would stand out.
Conversely, if you do decide to buy him something newer, make him pay for half. This was how my wife (and her 4 brothers/sisters) were raised. When it came time for them to drive they HAD to get there license (enough kids to cart around) but when they decided to get a car they were responsible for getting a job and paying for half. Mom and dad would match whatever the kids put towards a car so that way they could get something nicer. The kid was then responsible for the vehicle in keeping it registered (again paying half) and all maintenance and what not. This meant that while not only doing well in school (had to keep a B average) they were also responsible for finding a job along side their extracurricular activities.
Oh and an invaluable skill, we all had to learn and driver for at least 2yrs on a stick, NO AUTOMATICS! This teachs you so much more about cars, ability to do multiple things while paying attention to the road (talking about paying attention to your surroundings and the vehicle) as well as the skill of being able to drive the vehicle in such a way that you are connected.
My first car/truck was a 1985 Mazda B2000 sundowner (power NOTHING) and that thing just went. I abused the crap out of it (she was called FUBAR for a reason) and it had bee passed down from my dad to my brother to me. The thing is that when something went wrong with it, my dad didnt just do it or take it to a shop (simple 4banger engine that was easy to work on) he made me pay for a portion of the parts and we got the Chiltons and went to town on it. This gave me the appreciation of taking care of my vehicles (always washed them before a date and my parents always offered the "nicer" car but the truck was mine so I wanted to take it) and learn some maintenance skills.
With these trucks, your son would have a decent learning curve ahead of him but would learn the appreciation of not only taking care of his own vehicle but also the appreciation of accomplishment as he fixed things here and there. Yeah I am sure his buddies will have nice new trucks and cars but something that everyone else has, while he would have something unique that would stand out.
Conversely, if you do decide to buy him something newer, make him pay for half. This was how my wife (and her 4 brothers/sisters) were raised. When it came time for them to drive they HAD to get there license (enough kids to cart around) but when they decided to get a car they were responsible for getting a job and paying for half. Mom and dad would match whatever the kids put towards a car so that way they could get something nicer. The kid was then responsible for the vehicle in keeping it registered (again paying half) and all maintenance and what not. This meant that while not only doing well in school (had to keep a B average) they were also responsible for finding a job along side their extracurricular activities.
Oh and an invaluable skill, we all had to learn and driver for at least 2yrs on a stick, NO AUTOMATICS! This teachs you so much more about cars, ability to do multiple things while paying attention to the road (talking about paying attention to your surroundings and the vehicle) as well as the skill of being able to drive the vehicle in such a way that you are connected.
The best argument for it is that you've already got the rig. I'm considering the same for my daughter. However, we live in a small town where you don't drive very far, very often, or very fast. Wouldn't be a good choice in a heavily trafficked city, IMO, for reasons already mentioned. MPG, braking power, safety concerns. A lifted 4WD is even more prone to rollover than stock, which in turn is more prone than a car. The Aussies did some crash test evaluations of 4x4's awhile back. The data shows the 80 series to be an improvement over the 60 series, but both fall well short of the Volvo 850 mentioned. Lower numbers are better here. Any modern car should be comparable.
Maker Model Years Rating
Holden Jackaroo 1984-95 1.32
Nissan
Ford Patrol GQ
Maverick 1988-95 1.67
Rover Range Rover (Classic) 1982-95 1.67
Toyota LandCruiser 1990-95 1.9
Nissan Patrol MQ 1982-87 2.1
Toyota Hilux family 1982-95 2.54
Toyota LandCruiser 1982-90 2.54
Mitsubishi Pajero 1982-90 2.61
Suzuki Vitara 1988-95 2.90
Daihatsu Rocky F70 - 80 1984-95 3.05
Suzuki
Holden Sierra
Drover 1982-95
1985-87 3.40
Daihatsu Feroza 1989-95 3.51
The leads that the newer Patrol and LandCruiser have over their predecessors indicate that designs are improving. For comparison the car with the best safety rating is, you guessed it, a Volvo 700 series (1984-92) on 0.94.
Maker Model Years Rating
Holden Jackaroo 1984-95 1.32
Nissan
Ford Patrol GQ
Maverick 1988-95 1.67
Rover Range Rover (Classic) 1982-95 1.67
Toyota LandCruiser 1990-95 1.9
Nissan Patrol MQ 1982-87 2.1
Toyota Hilux family 1982-95 2.54
Toyota LandCruiser 1982-90 2.54
Mitsubishi Pajero 1982-90 2.61
Suzuki Vitara 1988-95 2.90
Daihatsu Rocky F70 - 80 1984-95 3.05
Suzuki
Holden Sierra
Drover 1982-95
1985-87 3.40
Daihatsu Feroza 1989-95 3.51
The leads that the newer Patrol and LandCruiser have over their predecessors indicate that designs are improving. For comparison the car with the best safety rating is, you guessed it, a Volvo 700 series (1984-92) on 0.94.