Thoughts From the 200 Crew On the LC250 Reveal

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Tell me if I’m wrong, but is this not the 9.5” axle? I believe the 8.2” transitions to round tube much closer to the pumpkin.



View attachment 3391157
I think it's a 9.5 and the front at least appears to be the same setup as the lc300 as well. That plus the same width suggests that they share a lot of parts. The off road Tacoma is the 9.5 and 67" track width as well (same as lc300). So they all probably share the same rear axle. The other taco models get some smaller axle set that's narrower, but I haven't seen any info on whether that's an 8, 8.2, 8.75, or something new.

To me the LC looks much closer to the lc300 than the j150 was to the 200. Visually they appear to share nearly identical rolling chassis. The GX is better in basically every way than the lc200. The lc250 is a bit of a mixed bag.
 
I'm sorry, this just sounds insane to me. There is no other platform that is as good at as many different tasks as a 200 series Land Cruiser.

• seats 8
• tows 8k. No mods required to keep from squatting if you have the LX
• drop off your heavy trailer and go do serious off-roading
• LC has better stock articulation than a Wrangler Rubicon
• tight turn radius helps maneuver trailers in tight spaces
• unlocked L4 range turns every boat ramp into a breeze
• fulltime 4wd is nearly perfect in all conditions.

If you're in a Raptor, the LX is better for towing. Yes the Raptor great for off roading. But for "everyday life" as you say, it's not great at towing, hauling, or daily driving. Doesn't every Raptor require a chainsaw or hedge trimmers if you take it on forest service roads? That's all I see: Raptor drivers constantly getting out to trim back the flora. Can't have any pinstripes!
The Raptor is a fantastic tow vehicle. Built in trailer brakes, long wheel base and big brakes along with a very legitimate tow mode. I've towed a 16' stock trailer with cattle and it had no problem towing or stopping. It will, however, squat with stock springs. I upgraded the rear coils and lost any squat.

I live in the epicenter of FS and BLM roads. Your typical FS road is the Raptor's sweet spot. It'll happily absorb giant potholes, washboards or shale and feel like you're on a runway. I've gone 90mph on a BLM road and never felt vaguely out of control. Mining roads, unmaintained or overgrown spurs can definitely prove to be too narrow and I'd give the LC a slight advantage on snow, largely because it's AWD, though the Raptor has proven to be excellent.

The Raptor is, however, a much better daily driver...roomier, quicker, intuitive interior, better ride, selectable suspension, airplay/android auto, better seats, much more cargo (especially with a topper), more interior storage, far superior HVAC, built in aux switches, more power outlets, etc etc. Road trips aren't even close with the difference in room, ride and power, not to mention a 600 mile range They are a blast to drive on the highway. If I lived in a city, I'm sure it would be a bear to park but fortunately, I do not.

Absolutely NO argument on quality or toughness...the 200 will outlive two Raptors. I only have 30k on my Raptor and have had zero issues but I'm confident it'll start having issues before 150k. And the LC is a much more capable trail rig to be sure. It's more narrow, has a better traction control and has slightly better visibility, though I'd argue the 200 lost a bit in that category with its round snout. Obviously the Raptor has a terrible rear departure angle. The LC has decades of off-road experience and purpose built engineering along with Japanese quality...trails are no contest.

But...the Raptor is a very modern, well engineered truck. Up until the 300, we all know that the tech on the LC hadn't changed significantly since the 100 series exited the scene. We have to mod the hell out of them just to get Apple Play, trailer brakes and a rear locker--all standard on the Ford. I know Raptor's are often driven by Mountain Dew chugging goons who love their giant Let's Go Brandon stickers and probably have tiny wangs, but make no mistake--they are very impressive trucks if you can get past the branding.

All of this to say, this is why I choose to be optimistic about the new 250. If it can handle moderate trails while boasting more HP, better MPG and range with an updated interior, all without the luxury stuff I don't want in a trail rig? Then it has my attention and hope!
 
The Raptor is a fantastic tow vehicle. Built in trailer brakes, long wheel base and big brakes along with a very legitimate tow mode. I've towed a 16' stock trailer with cattle and it had no problem towing or stopping. It will, however, squat with stock springs. I upgraded the rear coils and lost any squat.

I live in the epicenter of FS and BLM roads. Your typical FS road is the Raptor's sweet spot. It'll happily absorb giant potholes, washboards or shale and feel like you're on a runway. I've gone 90mph on a BLM road and never felt vaguely out of control. Mining roads, unmaintained or overgrown spurs can definitely prove to be too narrow and I'd give the LC a slight advantage on snow, largely because it's AWD, though the Raptor has proven to be excellent.

The Raptor is, however, a much better daily driver...roomier, quicker, intuitive interior, better ride, selectable suspension, airplay/android auto, better seats, much more cargo (especially with a topper), more interior storage, far superior HVAC, built in aux switches, more power outlets, etc etc. Road trips aren't even close with the difference in room, ride and power, not to mention a 600 mile range They are a blast to drive on the highway. If I lived in a city, I'm sure it would be a bear to park but fortunately, I do not.

Absolutely NO argument on quality or toughness...the 200 will outlive two Raptors. I only have 30k on my Raptor and have had zero issues but I'm confident it'll start having issues before 150k. And the LC is a much more capable trail rig to be sure. It's more narrow, has a better traction control and has slightly better visibility, though I'd argue the 200 lost a bit in that category with its round snout. Obviously the Raptor has a terrible rear departure angle. The LC has decades of off-road experience and purpose built engineering along with Japanese quality...trails are no contest.

But...the Raptor is a very modern, well engineered truck. Up until the 300, we all know that the tech on the LC hadn't changed significantly since the 100 series exited the scene. We have to mod the hell out of them just to get Apple Play, trailer brakes and a rear locker--all standard on the Ford. I know Raptor's are often driven by Mountain Dew chugging goons who love their giant Let's Go Brandon stickers and probably have tiny wangs, but make no mistake--they are very impressive trucks if you can get past the branding.

All of this to say, this is why I choose to be optimistic about the new 250. If it can handle moderate trails while boasting more HP, better MPG and range with an updated interior, all without the luxury stuff I don't want in a trail rig? Then it has my attention and hope!
I agree with everything you said. I feel the same about so many newer cars…that list of advantages could go on and fill a book. No wonder there’s so many Teslas and Raptors and Range Rovers on the streets…they’re so much more advanced and sexy and such powerful status symbols…the choice of car signals a lot to society, and that’s how they’re marketed. And just like every other auto manufacturer, Toyota needs to adapt and offer what the market demands. The process for new car purchases is: read the rave reviews online for basically any new car, buy/lease it, drive it around for the 50k or 100k mile lifespan, and dump it because there’s something newer and better out and avoid the pitfalls of hanging onto a car past the point of planned obsolescence.

But somehow I still willingly daily drive a gas guzzling $100k Toyota that was designed around the same time as the original iPhone. And as anything newer comes out, it makes even less sense to anyone why I’d hold onto it. And hence I don’t really try to explain it to anyone because it’s such an outdated mindset and way of thinking. But I’m that fraction of a percentage of the population that believes in BIFL and quality over anything else. And I accept that today not many people understand, or even want that, and as such it’s an ever smaller market. And I’m totally fine with that, because I bought the 200 with that mindset and it’ll outlive me if I need it to. I don’t care if it’s dated, they just don’t make anything like it anymore and it saves me having to think about shopping for a car.

It takes me a second to realize it, but I guess I’m not a normal person when I see threads about people wanting to rip out their nav screens to retrofit manual AC controls and somehow I don’t once think “Why would anyone want to do that after spending this kind of money on a car?”
 
I think Toyota really missed the mark bringing the 250 Prado to market. When we said we wanted a stripped down LC that didn’t mean a bare bones baby version. We wanted a fully capable 200/300 with no frills!

You’ve got to ask yourself why the 200 didn’t sell. Just saying it was too expensive isn’t the answer. Was it lack of trim levels, modern tech or simply lack of marketing? We will never know. I do see however, marketing is working really well with the Prado because it has convinced everyone in North America it’s a real LC.

I’ve said it before: Toyota now has a new decal they are going to put on every North American TNGA-F vehicle straight from the factory!

IMG_3814.jpeg
 
That's a reasonable perspective and sounds like the F150 fits your uses. I'm definitely in the minority with more niche requirements. A truck doesn't work for my needs, and to be fair, I did need to modify my LX a bit. Interestingly, I road trip, camp, and off-road with 4 buddies with F150s - 2x Raptors, 1 FX4, and 1 XL. I have no want for an F150 and it is the LX that is the one to beat when it comes to all around off-road chops, reliability, capability, comfort, and towing. My LX is also older by 7 years to the closest one and they are absolutely blown away by that fact.

An F-150 can't road trip with 8 people. It's not full time 4WD. Doesn't have the build quality and comfort (even off-road where tour kids often choose the Lexus). Raptor buddy complains about towing a 6500lb travel trailer, and yet the LX tows my 8k trailer confidently.

I'll admit I'm not a truck guy. That might change when I get a CT.

EDIT: this deserves a picture. When my Raptor buddy needed to trade up his 2019 Raptor due to issues, he seriously considered the LX.
View attachment 3391105
You mentioned “towing” for the 570 over the 150.

I have a 17 F150 and a 13 LC, my LC doesn’t tow ANYTHING as good as the F150. It’s not meant to tow, the 150 is.

Yes, the LC does better off road and will outlast the 150 by 20 years, but it ends there. Drive both for a week, go on a road trip with both.

You’ll see.

And I’m a die hard LC guy
 
Let's be honest here. The 200 series isn't the best vehicle at any one task or category, however I'd argue it's the best all-around vehicle. It can basically do everything reasonably competently (except for being a sports car) and that wide range is what makes it special. I'm sure I could cherry pick plenty of vehicles that do individual things better than my LX, but thats missing the point in my mind. I bought my LX because of this wide range, and with the LC250 I don't think it's going to such a great all-rounder. I think it will be good of course, but more in a way the new 4runner needed to be. I'm really curious where the next gen 4runner ends up. Maybe it becomes even more basic at a lower price point? They'd have to move it down market than where it currently is since most are around 50k+ at this point.

Assuming the 4runner moves down market I'd have to at least give Toyota credit for being, what seems like, the only car company to be actively reducing prices. It's getting really tiring seeing prices for normal cars climbing way faster than they have any right to.
 
No wonder there’s so many Teslas and Raptors and Range Rovers on the streets…they’re so much more advanced and sexy and such powerful status symbols…the choice of car signals a lot to society, and that’s how they’re marketed. And just like every other auto manufacturer, Toyota needs to adapt and offer what the market demands.
Please don’t ever do this, Toyota. I’m thrilled that at least one manufacturer prioritizes long term dependability over ”sexy and powerful status symbols” that signal to society. I want to drive and maintain my vehicle for as long as I see fit with zero issues. I bought a brand new ‘21 Tundra in Sept ‘20. I’m about to hit 50k miles, and I’ve never been back to the dealership. I maintain it according to the accelerated schedule in the owner’s manual, and that’s it. I take it to extremely remote places with no cell service and come back every time. That stupid truck will run forever. Meanwhile, the bat**** crazy truck market can continue running around with its hair on fire, and I will laugh at its insanity from a distance.

I know I’m in the minority when I say this, but I absolutely love that Toyota generally does not chase the whims of the fickle consumer. Toyota does NOT need to adapt to anything. We’re talking about the most profitable automaker in the world here.

Speaking of, all our enthusiast criticisms about the ’24 LC250 mean absolutely nothing to Toyota. They’re going to obliterate the US market 200 series sales numbers with that vehicle.
 
The way I see it is that the 250 is not the successor to the 200. (That would be the 300 Series) The 250 is the successor to the 150 and it’s an improvement in nearly every metric.

The 250 wasn’t just built for the US market. It was built for the rest of the world as well. It will vary in name with some countries just calling it a Land Cruiser and others attaching the Prado suffix.

Styling will always be a matter of opinion but I happen to like it and think there are worse looking vehicles in the LC lineup.

Anyone speaking on its performance and capability (or lack there of) is straight up talking out of their rear IMO. Until there is some real world data out there and the 250 has been put thru it’s paces and logged some miles no one truly knows how it will perform. The 150 was a very solid platform, bested only by the 200 so I see no reason why the 250 won’t be the same.
 
The 4 cylinder hybrid is just to little to allow for serious towing capability. They should have used the Sequioa 3.4 ltr V6 hybrid setup to make it right.

Compare 326 horsepower and 465 ft/lbs torque against any generation of LC. It's on par with the 200 (+64 higher torque, -54 lower HP) and way beyond any previous generation including diesel variants. People in this thread crapping on the new hybrid powertrain are living in the past, IMO. You can do much more with less displacement with modern turbo architecture and electric aid. Case in point, my buddy's late-model 2.7 F-150 pulls like the 460 of yesteryear.

And if you want the big engine, it's still available in a similar platform buy a GX550, Sequoia or LX600. Honestly, I think it's great Toyota is giving so many options with the new generation of trucks. When it comes down to it, what people are criticizing in this thread is the use of the word "Land Cruiser." We all know it's not a 300 and not technically the successor to the 200, but the rest of the world doesn't care.
 
Would love a big turbo diesel to be offered in the U.S.. My potentially unpopular opinion, though, is that an all-electric LC with a huge range (600+ miles?) would be really cool. Way fewer moving parts for increased dependability, and the ability to carry an extra motor or two that can be swapped out on the trails with about as much effort as a CV axle.
 
Compare 326 horsepower and 465 ft/lbs torque against any generation of LC. It's on par with the 200 (+64 higher torque, -54 lower HP) and way beyond any previous generation including diesel variants. People in this thread crapping on the new hybrid powertrain are living in the past, IMO. You can do much more with less displacement with modern turbo architecture and electric aid. Case in point, my buddy's late-model 2.7 F-150 pulls like the 460 of yesteryear.

And if you want the big engine, it's still available in a similar platform buy a GX550, Sequoia or LX600. Honestly, I think it's great Toyota is giving so many options with the new generation of trucks. When it comes down to it, what people are criticizing in this thread is the use of the word "Land Cruiser." We all know it's not a 300 and not technically the successor to the 200, but the rest of the world doesn't care.
Also if you want "serious" towing go buy a 1/2 or 3/4 ton pick up truck.
 
Also if you want "serious" towing go buy a 1/2 or 3/4 ton pick up truck.
Correct, I personally think even the 200 is a borderline tow vehicle for 6000+ lbs stuff and the 250 is really open motorcycle, teardrop camper, small fishing boat etc. territory.
 
Correct, I personally think even the 200 is a borderline tow vehicle for 6000+ lbs stuff and the 250 is really open motorcycle, teardrop camper, small fishing boat etc. territory.
Same but I'm also a believer in having some overhead in most applications to be on the safe side. I would not want to pull 8,000 lbs behind my 200. Give me something with at least a 10k tow rating at that point.
 
Please don’t ever do this, Toyota. I’m thrilled that at least one manufacturer prioritizes long term dependability over ”sexy and powerful status symbols” that signal to society. I want to drive and maintain my vehicle for as long as I see fit with zero issues. I bought a brand new ‘21 Tundra in Sept ‘20. I’m about to hit 50k miles, and I’ve never been back to the dealership. I maintain it according to the accelerated schedule in the owner’s manual, and that’s it. I take it to extremely remote places with no cell service and come back every time. That stupid truck will run forever. Meanwhile, the bats*** crazy truck market can continue running around with its hair on fire, and I will laugh at its insanity from a distance.

I know I’m in the minority when I say this, but I absolutely love that Toyota generally does not chase the whims of the fickle consumer. Toyota does NOT need to adapt to anything. We’re talking about the most profitable automaker in the world here.

Speaking of, all our enthusiast criticisms about the ’24 LC250 mean absolutely nothing to Toyota. They’re going to obliterate the US market 200 series sales numbers with that vehicle.
Well said.

This forum constantly needs reminding that we on MUD are very, very much a minority, niche market. That's why I love it here and also why my friends and family think I'm crazy for all the stuff I do with and to my two land cruisers.

But if Toyota took out direction, they'd be bankrupt.
 
Toyota sure isn't going to please everyone and their design/build needs, wants, desires. Look recently at how the press and cancel culture morons tried to get Toyota canceled for not rushing into full EV mode, also continuing the development on the Hydrogen program. They're not a jump on the latest bandwagon company.

I for one really admire this company thinks of it's lineage, where it all started and where it's going - with the brand loyal consumer in mind. Toyota doesn't seem to cater (obviously they do a bit to bring in new buyers) what the outside world thinks of their designs, they build with purpose. They don't rush things to market to capture $$ like the hilarious new Bronco, or the Dart - WTF was that??? and half of the Jeep line-up - they remind me of Harbor Freight if they had a vehicle line. And then there's Tesla... boy what horrible quality control - we have one and it's for sale.
Toyota builds for the long haul, I had three 3rd gen 4Runners years ago, they all went over 300k miles with minimal repairs and I'm always pleased with how many I still see on the road. Also, the used market value the Toyota lineup holds is incredible. In my opinion, they don't need to compete with the Jeep, Bronco, just do Toyota and smart consumer's will always follow.

In the industry I work in, a lot of people look down their nose at anything Toyota, and they love to name drop their vehicles. BMW, Mercedes, Tesla, Defender, Raptor, Denali, Escalade, etc. To them Toyota = cheap car brand and always will, like it was their first car and they've graduated beyond a lowly Toyota now. But I get to laugh when I'm asked whose big 4Runner is parked in the executive structure.....

The new J250 is going to sell very well
 
Last edited:
You mentioned “towing” for the 570 over the 150.

I have a 17 F150 and a 13 LC, my LC doesn’t tow ANYTHING as good as the F150. It’s not meant to tow, the 150 is.

Yes, the LC does better off road and will outlast the 150 by 20 years, but it ends there. Drive both for a week, go on a road trip with both.

You’ll see.

And I’m a die hard LC guy

IIRC a 2010 F150 Raptor has a tow rating of 6000 lbs, a '13 LC has a similar tow rating (a bit higher) than a '13 F150 Raptor, as is the case with '21 MY.
 
this whole debate would be moot if we got the new 70 series here
 
IIRC a 2010 F150 Raptor has a tow rating of 6000 lbs, a '13 LC has a similar tow rating (a bit higher) than a '13 F150 Raptor, as is the case with '21 MY.
And those two vehicles will still tow entirely different from one another. Trucks will always tow better. I use both, I’m not making this up.
 
Same but I'm also a believer in having some overhead in most applications to be on the safe side. I would not want to pull 8,000 lbs behind my 200. Give me something with at least a 10k tow rating at that point.
Exactly, it is alarming ( dangerous) the number of folks that start towing something at the rated amount or as importantly, a high profile trailer that creates more drag and instability, leaving no margin for error.

I have towed several things with a 200, the biggest being an FJ40 on a UHaul trailer (when my 03’ diesel truck was in the shop) and it was a tiring adventure (and fuel costly) when I left flat land or approached anything over 55.

Being said, the 200 tows my fishing boat or my Thule trailer with a motorcycle, 4 bicycles, family vacation stuff for a week like a champ!

I can’t imagine comfortably towing anything more than an aerodynamic 4000 lbs with the new 250!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom