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This is probably going to be very unliked, but this is just like my opinion man. This is my issue with the LC250 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dbbowen
- Start date
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Hence the real annoyance and frustration. There are still some of us who need and use these trucks off road as intended but because the majority of buyers who could honestly do what they want in a Subaru or RAV4 or Highlander have taken over the market so the rest of us are now prisoners to the glamping overlanders.
On one hand I don’t blame Toyota for catering to the masses. On the other hand they should have been brave enough to keep at least one for the few of us. That’s exactly what the Land Cruiser was supposed to be. Over built for those that appreciate it. Simple for those who want it. Maybe a little impractical for those who love it and can find another way to soccer practice.
I know that some people wear cowboy boots in NYC. But that doesn’t make it any less ridiculous.
Bring over the triple locked 300 and triple the price to weed out those who really should find a better (for their real needs) alternative. Sell just a few thousand a year and set it apart from everyone else.
On one hand I don’t blame Toyota for catering to the masses. On the other hand they should have been brave enough to keep at least one for the few of us. That’s exactly what the Land Cruiser was supposed to be. Over built for those that appreciate it. Simple for those who want it. Maybe a little impractical for those who love it and can find another way to soccer practice.
I know that some people wear cowboy boots in NYC. But that doesn’t make it any less ridiculous.
Bring over the triple locked 300 and triple the price to weed out those who really should find a better (for their real needs) alternative. Sell just a few thousand a year and set it apart from everyone else.
I have my gripes, but overall I dig the new trucks. I also agree that the 4R confuses the lineup for me.
My biggest issue with the 250/550/600 though is that all of them seem to have less second row leg room than the 200 due to lack of sliding rear bench.
I’ve got two kids in car seats now and am still daily driving the 80. I love it but I need to pick up a larger cruiser to better fit the family. Unfortunately, I just don’t see how I can consider any of these options due to the lack of rear passenger space…
My biggest issue with the 250/550/600 though is that all of them seem to have less second row leg room than the 200 due to lack of sliding rear bench.
I’ve got two kids in car seats now and am still daily driving the 80. I love it but I need to pick up a larger cruiser to better fit the family. Unfortunately, I just don’t see how I can consider any of these options due to the lack of rear passenger space…
This market you are referring to is so small it may as well have never existed. There never was "one for you". (at least in America)
Did you buy a Land Cruiser (100 or 200) NEW with the intended purpose being primarily off road duties?
2000 LC msrp $52k = $94k today
2013 LC msrp $78k = $104k today
You'd have to be either rich, and/or stupid, to spend that kind of money on a brand new, luxury off road vehicle, just to take it off-roading.
The few Americans that bought them new did so because they were ridiculously overbuilt, Toyota reliable, and cool, and because they could. They used them as daily drivers and for "light, off the pavement" family weekend / vacation related activities.
They didn't buy them for rock crawling, or for mud bathing, or for racing as fast possible across sand dunes like in Mad Max.
Actually, the 1958 is very similar to what was the inflation-adjusted price of our 1992 — not cheap, but not exorbitant. A key difference though is that, based on data thus far, the 250 appears not nearly as overbuilt for its weight and power. This (1992) was just before Toyota began force feeding the US market expensive luxury atop Land Cruiser’s sturdy chassis, which continues today. But, we got that truck for its durability, reliability, and utility (not sport), and for traveling comfortably with considerable loads to remote places on fine or bad roads (not “wheeling”). It spent several winters on the Sonoran coast, at the end of an hour-long sand track. Such comfortable, reliable, and straightforward utility, without all the luxury crap, was (and is) just sensible.
Sure, but now we're talking about pre 100 series LC's, over 25 years ago.
Any serious complaining beyond a pipe dream that there's no affordable, luxury stripped, but still overbuilt, 250 or 300 or FJ variant being offered here, when that hasn't been the case for over 25 years - it just doesn't make any sense.
I suspect people think that because they are able to buy the luxury overbuilt generations of LC's on the used market with 200k+ miles at a huge discount from new and then build/use it for off road, that a market exists for someone else to buy them new at $100k for primarily the same off road purpose. It doesn't.
This isn't Africa or the Australian outback or the Middle East - where there are many areas with no roads - where the bare bones, affordable variants are still offered.
Call Jonathan Ward and get exactly what you want.
Toyota said they wanted the next Landcruiser (LC250) to return to its roots. I assume that’s the 60 series.
The FJ60 and 62 have abysmally cramped 2nd row seating.
It's not a pipe dream; it's exactly how Toyota markets the 250. Back to basics, return to core, expedition worthy, etc. The 250, and more precisely the 1958, with GX's heavier duty running gear, would have been that. Instead, as with the 200, the sturdier running gear is relegated to luxury variants. Land Cruiser, as a result, sees an 8.2" instead of 9.5" diff, and, as shown on vehicle placards, is condemned to a paltry 1100 lb weight limit for cargo and passengers - little more than a Subaru. And yes, that is a complaint - a serious numerical one.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
Are they going to do a LX600 Overtrail trim?
Let's assume the 250 in 1958 trim is the affordable, luxury stripped LC that many on this thread were clamoring for. Although IMO at close to $60k or whatever it is it misses the affordability mark by my standards as well - but times have changed. It is significantly more affordable than a 100 or 200 of its time.
Well guess what, at this price, it's no longer ridiculously overbuilt - which was precisely my original point. So yeah, if you have a use case for this vehicle that requires the larger diff (first ask yourself - do you really?), you'll have to pay more to move up in trim to get it.
But I'd bet the 1958 and it's smaller diff is going to do your family just fine down that long, gravel, pothole filled road, in crappy weather, to that remote VRBO your family rented on a lake, or in the mountains. And that's going to be the extent of 95% (99%?) of the new buyers' off road use case.
The American Land Cruiser isn't for the off road trail runner - it hasn't been for 25+ years. You've been marketed to by professional, salaried masterminds. The doctor or lawyer with a wife and 3 kids, who bought 100s and 200s when they were new, couldn't give a sh!t about the size of the rear axle.
And now with the 250's reduced price, more people will get in the game.
I really like what he does. Of course, I don’t have $250k to spend on a weekend toy.
To put things into perspective:
I purchased a 2 year old FJ60 in 1988 (for $13K). It was 100% stock when I bought it.
Within two years, I had upgraded the rear axle to a used 60 series full floater that Specter Off-Road sold me for a couple hundred bucks.
Got new bigger tires.
I then upgraded both the differentials to ARB lockers.
I then upgraded the springs to stronger ones.
I then upgraded the gas tank to a 48 gallon tank (2X).
I then got an ARB roof rack and bumper.
I then installed a 5 speed transmission.
All and all I spent a few thousand dollars on the upgrades - and the end result didn’t resemble a stock FJ60 much at all — it was sooo much more capable off road.
So this kind of upgrading will be available to the LC250 too. It’ll just take a few years for stuff to become available.
I purchased a 2 year old FJ60 in 1988 (for $13K). It was 100% stock when I bought it.
Within two years, I had upgraded the rear axle to a used 60 series full floater that Specter Off-Road sold me for a couple hundred bucks.
Got new bigger tires.
I then upgraded both the differentials to ARB lockers.
I then upgraded the springs to stronger ones.
I then upgraded the gas tank to a 48 gallon tank (2X).
I then got an ARB roof rack and bumper.
I then installed a 5 speed transmission.
All and all I spent a few thousand dollars on the upgrades - and the end result didn’t resemble a stock FJ60 much at all — it was sooo much more capable off road.
So this kind of upgrading will be available to the LC250 too. It’ll just take a few years for stuff to become available.
And I’ve both read & seen a few video interviews about Toyota’s mindset behind the 1958 LC250 (base model) — and from its inception, it was designed as a vehicle for enthusiasts to modify. Toyota is expecting enthusiasts to modify the s*** out of it.
The 1958 is a starting point, not the end game. Think of it as an empty canvas.
The 1958 is a starting point, not the end game. Think of it as an empty canvas.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
I am in the other camp. For safety and reliability reasons, I don't want to touch anything besides cosmetics. Aftermarket companies, in my experience, rarely put in the same effort on design and manufacturing as Toyota and Lexus.I personally find the prospect of buying a totally-built, off-the-shelf vehicle (ala Bronco, Wrangler) boring. I've thoroughly enjoyed building my rig the way I want it. It's one of my hobbies as well.
The fewer hands touching the vehicle the better, in my world.
I'm also an engineer by trade and do 100% of my own wrenching and have done so for the past 20+ years on my other vehicles as well. Knowing my rig inside and out - having turned most of the bolts on it - also provides me the skill to be able to troubleshoot and fix just about anything on it if there is a problem.
I would have to have a problem with a vehicle that I don't know intimately.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
I too am an engineer and have done a large portion of the wrenching on my vehicles as well. +1 on the comment for knowing personally how the different mechanicals work in the event you need to troubleshoot and hopefully fix something. It can really help you out in a pinch.
I realized that the benefit from the knowledge and taking tools along in the off chance that I break something for my use case would be pretty rare. Having that knowledge and skill is also more needed when you have an older vehicle and/or you are using that vehicle on the edge of the designed use case. I suppose that's why I support the larger design margin over usage afforded by prior generations. But I don't fit in those vehicles (and I'm not willing to accept the tradeoffs that come with the modifications so I can fit) - so here we are.
Perhaps it's anecdotal, but that knowledge and skill also becomes less and less relevant as these vehicles become more and more complex and integrated with computers and electrical systems. You're more likely to get into limp-mode for something that you just can't troubleshoot and fix on the trail.
