Tell me how the LC250 1958 will survive after this (1 Viewer)

[SanJuanJ]

For me , yes I prefer the hybrid 4 cylinder. The TT V6 is hands down the smoother, more refined powerplant. (drove both before purchasing the LC). I'm just not convinced that the issues with the TT V6 have been resolved. I have don't have an inside scoop on these issues. I'm just putting parts and pieces of info together . I don't even claim to know if any GX550's have had issues related to the TT V6. I do know that there is a significant recall involving these motors in the LX600 and Tundra's.

Fair enough. I wondered if you had your brackets backwards, but I guess not. We've all earned the right to our own opinions!!

 

[MRego]

But yeah, I think the 1958 version is going to be discontinued.

Or Toyota adjusts the MSRP to bring it to reality in terms of what the 1958 offers and separate a bit from the 4runner TRDOP. Toyota is betting too much on the name plate LC, but the people that care for that (like us here) are just a small sliver of the car buying population. Most people will just compare amenities and will go all day with the 6thgen.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Or Toyota adjusts the MSRP to bring it to reality in terms of what the 1958 offers and separate a bit from the 4runner TRDOP. Toyota is betting too much on the name plate LC, but the people that care for that (like us here) are just a small sliver of the car buying population. Most people will just compare amenities and will go all day with the 6thgen.

If Toyota drops it under $50k and if adding MTS is as easy as adding the switch and an ECU to the existing wiring harness I might reconsider a 1958.

 

[Specialeyes]

If Toyota drops it under $50k and if adding MTS is as easy as adding the switch and an ECU to the existing wiring harness I might reconsider a 1958.

Or they could just lower their asking price to under $50k and include the sway bar disconnect and MTS as part of the package. All of that for $49k and some change and I’d buy one.

I got to check out a couple of new 4Runners at my local auto show recently and was not impressed with the 6th gen. Rather own a late model (22-24) Gen5 if I’m going 4R.

As for this thread, I’d rather have the 250 if I’m squarely pitting it against the 6G 4Runner.

 

[Jetboy]

If Toyota drops it under $50k and if adding MTS is as easy as adding the switch and an ECU to the existing wiring harness I might reconsider a 1958.

If they offered it without the hybrid, added the SDM, and had it around $50k would be the sweet spot for an adventure platform. Make it $53k with the turbo v6 - even better. It's a $2,100 price bump to move from turbo 4 to twin turbo v6 in the ford models. I'm sure Toyota will want somewhere around infinity dollars.

 

[rexington14]

The V35A in the 1958 would be pretty sweet.

Anyways, it seems Toyota is using the full time AWD as their line in the sand delineation between LC and 4R. 4R Limited/Platinum trim is the only full time AWD option for the 4R and I guess that's solely due to legacy carryover of 5th gen Limited buyers.

I do think a lot of folks are interested in full time AWD. Ever hear a Subaru owner talk about their car? The first thing out of their mouth is AWD.

 

[Jetboy]

The V35A in the 1958 would be pretty sweet.

Anyways, it seems Toyota is using the full time AWD as their line in the sand delineation between LC and 4R. 4R Limited/Platinum trim is the only full time AWD option for the 4R and I guess that's solely due to legacy carryover of 5th gen Limited buyers.

I do think a lot of folks are interested in full time AWD. Ever hear a Subaru owner talk about their car? The first thing out of their mouth is AWD.

Toyota withholding engines remains a mystery to me.

Toyota: You want a V35A in a $40k stripper Tundra? No problem. Let's go.
Also Toyota: You want it in a $60k SUV? GTFO.

It's also very hard to rationalize the AWD witholding. The awd setup they're using is pushing is 40 years old. It's been an option in the 4Runner since the late 90's or early 2000s. It was in the FJ Cruiser. It's in 2 trims of the new 4R. Toyota put it in the Tacoma. Why not offer it in more 4R trims? It can't be very expensive to manufacture. It's the same system in the Lexus IS sedan that adds the full front drive system AND the awd transfer case for $2k. Make it a $500 or $750 upcharge and I think it would be very popular.

 

[stonepa]

Price killed the 200 more than anything (the Toyota version at least). Speaking of piling up on the lot I wonder what it was like back in the 2010's with Land Cruisers sitting on dealer lots.

I bought my 200 new off the lot in Juneau, Alaska. I was passing through town to catch a flight and there it was at the Toyota dealer. At the time I had a LX570 (which I disliked) and jumped at the 200. Signed the paperwork and the dealership stuck it on the next ferry.

I honestly think it was meant to be. It was the only 200 I ever saw new on a dealer lot.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

If they offered it without the hybrid, added the SDM, and had it around $50k would be the sweet spot for an adventure platform. Make it $53k with the turbo v6 - even better. It's a $2,100 price bump to move from turbo 4 to twin turbo v6 in the ford models. I'm sure Toyota will want somewhere around infinity dollars.

I want the hybrid system for the instantaneous torque as that would make a dual t-case unnecessary. Also the OE inverter would run an induction cook top or instapot pretty well. All of that really appeals to me as an adventure platform. Buying big stonking LiFePO batteies, inverter, charge controller, alternator upgrade or solar panels, etc to do the same thing in a non-hybrid adds a lot of weight and cost and, while theres more flexibility in that system, I know I'd spend more for quality stuff than the uptick in price for a hybrid.

Or they could just lower their asking price to under $50k and include the sway bar disconnect and MTS as part of the package. All of that for $49k and some change and I’d buy one.

I got to check out a couple of new 4Runners at my local auto show recently and was not impressed with the 6th gen. Rather own a late model (22-24) Gen5 if I’m going 4R.

As for this thread, I’d rather have the 250 if I’m squarely pitting it against the 6G 4Runner.

MTS/SDM seems to be the major selling point behind the Land Cruiser Premium from a functionality standpoint. I don't care about the other goo-gahs, but if the 1958 had at least MTS that might swing my interest.

Comparing the 4Runner Trailhunter it's pretty clearly the better option for my needs vs the LC 1958 (and even the LC Premium)
6g 4Runner Trailhunter base price: 69540
-9.5 rear end.
-MTS/SDM
-OME BP-51 suspension.

VS LC Premium base price: 67870
-8.75" rear end
-MTS/SDM
-Tokico suspension.

Adding the OME BP-51 suspension ($3500 retail) and swapping in a 9.5" rear end (using all new OEM parts, $9100) to the LC Premium bumps the price to $80470.

Adding the Land Cruiser full time t-case (3610035A30 -$2800) bumps the Trailhunter to $72340. (Though I am sure there is a bit more to it than just swapping the t-case around.)

That said, swapping rear ends and transfer cases voids the warranty in either case. So stock for stock, the TH 4runner is the better value, though to be FAIR I do want the LC badge.

 

[Jetboy]

I want the hybrid system for the instantaneous torque as that would make a dual t-case unnecessary. Also the OE inverter would run an induction cook top or instapot pretty well. All of that really appeals to me as an adventure platform. Buying big stonking LiFePO batteies, inverter, charge controller, alternator upgrade or solar panels, etc to do the same thing in a non-hybrid adds a lot of weight and cost and, while theres more flexibility in that system, I know I'd spend more for quality stuff than the uptick in price for a hybrid.



MTS/SDM seems to be the major selling point behind the Land Cruiser Premium from a functionality standpoint. I don't care about the other goo-gahs, but if the 1958 had at least MTS that might swing my interest.

Comparing the 4Runner Trailhunter it's pretty clearly the better option for my needs vs the LC 1958 (and even the LC Premium)
6g 4Runner Trailhunter base price: 69540
-9.5 rear end.
-MTS/SDM
-OME BP-51 suspension.

VS LC Premium base price: 67870
-8.75" rear end
-MTS/SDM
-Tokico suspension.

Adding the OME BP-51 suspension ($3500 retail) and swapping in a 9.5" rear end (using all new OEM parts, $9100) to the LC Premium bumps the price to $80470.

Adding the Land Cruiser full time t-case (3610035A30 -$2800) bumps the Trailhunter to $72340. (Though I am sure there is a bit more to it than just swapping the t-case around.)

That said, swapping rear ends and transfer cases voids the warranty in either case. So stock for stock, the TH 4runner is the better value, though to be FAIR I do want the LC badge.

I'm a hybrid fan - I just think this specific hybrid configuration sucks. The battery is the wrong type, the wrong size, and in the wrong place. If Toyota just put the damn thing under the middle row like the Tacoma, or made it large enough to be really useful (10kwh+) - I'd be all for it. The way it is currently - I'd rather not have it even if it were free.

For me - I'd MUCH rather have a 1GR engine in front of the same hybrid powertrain with a 20kwh battery. I think that would be better in every way for me.

Something I think everyone would agree on - Toyota should just let us spec them how we want like everyone else does. Then you could have the setup you want, I could order it the way I'd want it. Everyone wins.

Unfortunately - they all probably just got about $20k more expensive with Trump's new tarrifs. Thanks Obama.

 

[rexington14]

For me - I'd MUCH rather have a 1GR engine in front of the same hybrid powertrain with a 20kwh battery. I think that would be better in every way for me.

Seems doable, Toyota is already selling a very similar configuration in the Lexus TX550h+, which has their bread and butter V6 2GR engine + plug in hybrid with an 18 kw lithium ion battery and front and rear electric motors

 

[Jetboy]

Seems doable, Toyota is already selling a very similar configuration in the Lexus TX550h+, which has their bread and butter V6 2GR engine + plug in hybrid with an 18 kw lithium ion battery and front and rear electric motors

It sure seems like the obvious choice to me. I mis-wrote though, I think the 2GR like the TX is a better engine in this case than the 1GR because it's better balanced and quieter.

Just back of the envelope - on a 20 mile mountain pass, 20kwh of useable battery would be able to provide a continuous output of 60kw or roughly 80hp. At lower rpms - like 1800rpm cruising range, it would roughly double the power from the v6. And you could produce 355hp for the full 20 miles up a pass. I think it would be pretty comparable to the v8 power output in a continuous way all the way up a pass.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

It sure seems like the obvious choice to me. I mis-wrote though, I think the 2GR like the TX is a better engine in this case than the 1GR because it's better balanced and quieter.

Just back of the envelope - on a 20 mile mountain pass, 20kwh of useable battery would be able to provide a continuous output of 60kw or roughly 80hp. At lower rpms - like 1800rpm cruising range, it would roughly double the power from the v6. And you could produce 355hp for the full 20 miles up a pass. I think it would be pretty comparable to the v8 power output in a continuous way all the way up a pass.

If the battery was big enough that I could make my 25 mile one way commute on battery power alone, and then plug in and charge when at work and at home, that would sell me on it 100%.

I know a RAV4 Prime can about do that, but its not in the same zip code as a TNGA-F platform vehicle.