Thinking about swapping my Raptor for an LC200

[bigslacker]

This is an info gathering post. Nothing wrong with the Raptor but I'm really driving it because I was not satisfied with the power or towing ability of my 4runner here at 6500 feet and up. A buddy happened to want to sell his quick and I got a smokin deal, $55k for an '18 with 22k miles. Now a year later one dealer has offered me $60k cash for it, they have no LC200. Another dealer has a '16 with 39k miles listed at $66k. They haven't offered on the Raptor yet but I expect above $60k. So it might be a cheap swap and I have always wanted a Land Cruiser.

Here is where I start waffling though. The Raptor even without mods is extremely capable offroad and I wheel weekly. I'm imagining having to dump a bunch of $$ into the LC to get it close suspension wise, I'm guessing $7k-$8k for king 2.5's F/R, UCAs and wheels/tires. I do enjoy going 40-60 on dirt but I don't have to. Most of my trips are some high speed to start and then I get into the tighter trails to get to remote camp spots. I really just need traction for loose and sometimes steep plus decent angles to avoid body damage.

So is my thinking wrong here? Would the right deal be to wait for something a little cheaper/high miles? Or do you figure I could be fine with the '16 stock + KO2s for a year or so and worry about suspension come bonus time at the end of the year?

Also worth noting there is a private party '08 with 75k miles for $39k in the area as well, already has reasonable tires on it. But that won't have the 8 speed, HIDS, probably not bluetooth I'm guess?

 

[Madtiger]

With your needs, stick with Raptor. LC on stock suspension is not meant for you to fly thru undulating dirt roads etc..

 

[nor_cal_cyclist]

I own a '14 Raptor and a highly modified '19 200, and live just across the Lake from you. Both trucks are good off-road, but for towing and power the Raptor wins hands down. My concern in the Basin and Eastern Sierra's is the width/length of the Raptor. Tighter trails (as opposed to stuff like Moon Rocks outside of Reno), is obviously easier in a narrower vehicle...or something you don't mind a little "nature applied pin striping."

Like Madtiger said - 2 different platforms and they have different strengths based on engine/suspension/width/length.

Honestly, I'm thinking of selling my Raptor (low miles '14)...dealer recently offered me $52k for it, which is what I wrote the check for 7 yrs ago. Hard to pass up, but a very cool and capable truck!

 

[bigslacker]

I own a '14 Raptor and a highly modified '19 200, and live just across the Lake from you. Both trucks are good off-road, but for towing and power the Raptor wins hands down. My concern in the Basin and Eastern Sierra's is the width/length of the Raptor. Tighter trails (as opposed to stuff like Moon Rocks outside of Reno), is obviously easier in a narrower vehicle...or something you don't mind a little "nature applied pin striping."

Like Madtiger said - 2 different platforms and they have different strengths based on engine/suspension/width/length.

Honestly, I'm thinking of selling my Raptor (low miles '14)...dealer recently offered me $52k for it, which is what I wrote the check for 7 yrs ago. Hard to pass up, but a very cool and capable truck!

Well, towing wise our TT is only 20 ft/5k lbs. The Raptor is impressive towing once you throw a WDH on it. But the RV life is not for me and I'm selling it anyway! The most this will be towing is a trailer with dirtbikes/quads which shouldn't tax it at all. Since you know the area, I'm usually wheeling out at Johnson ln in Minden. Sunrise pass rd is perfect for the high speed stuff, but then we get off into the side trails and the Raptor is definitely a big girl. Lots of pinstripes. Although it's not common, the LC200 would be slim by comparison.

Definitely tradeoffs on either side. I had a '19 4runner before the raptor and kind of wanted a more powerful version of that, but then I got an offer I couldn't refuse on the Raptor.

Side note: Hope you survived the 4th ok. The tourists were THICK down here in south shore. I'm lucky enough to live on lower kingsbury so I can run away to the valley for BBQs with all my friends to avoid that madness.

 

[HGB]

This is an info gathering post. Nothing wrong with the Raptor but I'm really driving it because I was not satisfied with the power or towing ability of my 4runner here at 6500 feet and up. A buddy happened to want to sell his quick and I got a smokin deal, $55k for an '18 with 22k miles. Now a year later one dealer has offered me $60k cash for it, they have no LC200. Another dealer has a '16 with 39k miles listed at $66k. They haven't offered on the Raptor yet but I expect above $60k. So it might be a cheap swap and I have always wanted a Land Cruiser.

Here is where I start waffling though. The Raptor even without mods is extremely capable offroad and I wheel weekly. I'm imagining having to dump a bunch of $$ into the LC to get it close suspension wise, I'm guessing $7k-$8k for king 2.5's F/R, UCAs and wheels/tires. I do enjoy going 40-60 on dirt but I don't have to. Most of my trips are some high speed to start and then I get into the tighter trails to get to remote camp spots. I really just need traction for loose and sometimes steep plus decent angles to avoid body damage.

So is my thinking wrong here? Would the right deal be to wait for something a little cheaper/high miles? Or do you figure I could be fine with the '16 stock + KO2s for a year or so and worry about suspension come bonus time at the end of the year?

Also worth noting there is a private party '08 with 75k miles for $39k in the area as well, already has reasonable tires on it. But that won't have the 8 speed, HIDS, probably not bluetooth I'm guess?

Is it the 802a and largest 4 door? If so I’ll beat any dealers offer. Let me know.

 

[bigslacker]

Is it the 802a and largest 4 door? If so I’ll beat any dealers offer. Let me know.

Yessir, 802A super crew (big 4 door). Headed down to look at the LC now and have them give an offer. Will let you know.

 

[HGB]

Yessir, 802A super crew (big 4 door). Headed down to look at the LC now and have them give an offer. Will let you know.

Ok. Please Let me know. Ready to go, as long as it has no accidents we can do this ASAP. Ha@sultangroup.tv for email if you want to shoot me your number.

 

[Lester did that]

Stick with the Raptor for your needs. You will dump some cash on suspension to be able to travel at your speeds and driving conditions. Completely doable and you will end up with an attractive LC. The LC tows a lot. But its not a maniac Raptor. Stock with no mods a Raptor will blow a LC out of the water. The right mods on a LC will crush a Raptor. That's why folks love the LC. It's versitile and easy to mod for your specific needs. And they run forever.

 

[Itsky]

I’ll trade you my 2013 LC with OME and rock warriors

 

[residualboulders]

i traded my loaded 2020 raptor for the 2021 200. Always wanted a newer LC and the trade in value on the raptor was really high and it was just about out of warranty due to mileage so i figured it was a good time to trade.

From my perspective:
Raptor pros: super comfortable seats, powerful motor, great ride and spacious cabin.
Cons: too big for a lot of trails. It's a ford so the quality just wasn't there (body panel gaps etc). Though the ride is smooth, the squeaks and rattles while offroading in that thing drove me nuts. Started to have some electronic issues after just a year. I don't know that the raptor is any more offroad capable than the LC, except for high speed desert style offroading.

Honestly the seats in my raptor were really comfortable and I miss the space on long trips with the fam.. I don't miss that powerful motor as much as i thought I would. The 200 has good power for the size, it's just not sporty like the raptor. The seats in the 200 are really comfortable too and I don't get fatigue on long trips, but I have to admit that i liked the raptor seats better. I have had a full size truck like tundra or raptor for the last 20 years so I think a lot of it was just adjusting to the new smaller space norm for me.

I actually think the LC tows my 4 place snowmobile trailer better than the raptor did just because the raptor suspension was so soft.

Overall i do not regret selling the raptor at all. But I have always only owned toyotas so the Raptor was a bit of a departure for me anyway. And having had quite a few older cruisers, I always wanted to get a new one and be the one putting all the miles on it, ha ha.

 

[ChaoticSquare]

I think if you go into the LC with the expectation it will handle the speed like the raptor you'll be disappointed. I wouldn't try and jump the LC either, not that everyone jumps a raptor but... . I am more interested in the trails than the speed with any street legal vehicle now so am pivoting to a LC/LX.

I spend some time out by Minden every year and took my first gen raptor out there quite a bit. I had fender flares/suspension work so I know what you mean about the side trails shrinking; I expanded a few out there. When I finally sold mine I took it to get detailed after 5 years of hard abuse and almost felt bad for the guy doing it as it took twice as long as he quoted.

 

[bigslacker]

Well, test drove the LC200. There were a lot of good things about it. Build quality was SOLID. Even closing the doors felt like a bank vault compared to a wooden door on the raptor, haha! As expected much less road noise and overall everything felt smoother. Pretty much the same lux stuff as the raptor. Heated/ventilated seats, nav, BT, dual zone CC, etc. Everything felt very smooth while driving, from the shifting to the cornering. Maybe a little too smooth? That was part of the problem.

But ultimately there is no way I could give up the power/speed of the Raptor. The LC felt REALLY slow, especially driving up highway 50 which I do all the time. I didn't expect it to be as fast as the raptor, but I didn't expect it to be quite that slow. I said about it felt kind of too smooth. Almost no engine noise (I'm aware the raptor pipes in fake engine noise, haha!), no feeling of being pushed back in your seat, shifts were smooth rather than more abrupt like the raptor or my wife's 335. It did hold 60 up the hill with what felt like ZERO effort from the motor so it's not like the power isn't there. I just didn't FEEL it.

Anyway, that was the only vehicle in my head that I would have swapped the Raptor for and now it's crossed off the list. Never thought a Ford would be the only thing I'd want to drive but life is weird, haha!

 

[ToothDr]

Cruisers has never been about power and or speed regardless of generation. If you want durability, quality and longevity the cruiser is your truck. Not many Americans are looking for the latter nor do they keep their cars long enough to appreciate the above attributes.

 

[bigslacker]

Cruisers has never been about power and or speed regardless of generation. If you want durability, quality and longevity the cruiser is your truck. Not many Americans are looking for the latter nor do they keep their cars long enough to appreciate the above attributes.

Oh I appreciate longevity. Here is a post from me in 2019 showing me wheeling my '07 FJ.

Lets see some pics of your FJ Cruisers

I went out wheeling in the snow on New Years morning. Watched the sun rise on 2019 at 10,000'. New Years Day 2019 by crazysanman posted Jan 3, 2019 at 6:38 AM

forum.ih8mud.com

But if something is going to last 20 years you'd better like driving it because you're going to be doing so for a very long time. Weirdly in both my FJ and 4runner when you floor those they will get up and go. The LC has 380 HP and 400-ish lb ft of torque, it just felt like it refused to downshift low enough to access that power even with the pedal to the floor.

 

[Recon Aircrew]

Oh I appreciate longevity. Here is a post from me in 2019 showing me wheeling my '07 FJ.

Lets see some pics of your FJ Cruisers

I went out wheeling in the snow on New Years morning. Watched the sun rise on 2019 at 10,000'. New Years Day 2019 by crazysanman posted Jan 3, 2019 at 6:38 AM

forum.ih8mud.com

But if something is going to last 20 years you'd better like driving it because you're going to be doing so for a very long time. Weirdly in both my FJ and 4runner when you floor those they will get up and go. The LC has 380 HP and 400-ish lb ft of torque, it just felt like it refused to downshift low enough to access that power even with the pedal to the floor.

This pretty much solves the throttle issue.

Pedal Commander - PC27 for Toyota Landcruiser/Prado (2008+) Base, Heritage Edition & Other Models

Pedal Commander PC27 is the world’s most advanced throttle controller for Toyota Landcruiser/Prado (2008+) Base, Heritage Edition & other models. It eliminates the response delays from your electronic accelerator pedal, allowing your engine to respond faster and resulting in much faster...

pedalcommander.com

Now you'll need to find another excuse not to get one

 

[coleAK]

Stock The 200 will be better on the technical off road, better traction. Not as good high speed, which is what the raptor is made for.

I have off-roaded with a guy that has a ‘19 raptor. Other then high speed open roads and jumps it sort of sucks off road.

 

[bigslacker]

This pretty much solves the throttle issue.

Pedal Commander - PC27 for Toyota Landcruiser/Prado (2008+) Base, Heritage Edition & Other Models

Pedal Commander PC27 is the world’s most advanced throttle controller for Toyota Landcruiser/Prado (2008+) Base, Heritage Edition & other models. It eliminates the response delays from your electronic accelerator pedal, allowing your engine to respond faster and resulting in much faster...

pedalcommander.com

Now you'll need to find another excuse not to get one

I'd surely love to drive one with this installed, but there is no way I'd take $65k leap of faith. I understand it's going to change throttle response, but it doesn't seem like it would solve the issue with the transmission being in too high a gear?

Stock The 200 will be better on the technical off road, better traction. Not as good high speed, which is what the raptor is made for.

I have off-roaded with a guy that has a ‘19 raptor. Other then high speed open roads and jumps it sort of sucks off road.

At the risk of derailing the thread you think the cruiser has better traction? I'm wondering what settings you were running on the raptor? I've owned a good amount of offroad vehicles and outside of the 2 door wranglers I'd put the Raptor up there for pure traction. If you were in baja mode trying to crawl then you might have problems. If you were aired down, mud/sand mode, 4lo and rear locker engaged traction usually isn't the issue. It's the SIZE that hurts the raptor, mostly the breakover. I've banged the side steps more than a few times on pretty mild stuff.

Granted I haven't wheeled a 200, but traction wise I was a bit worried about only a center diff lock and already thinking about how to get a rear locker in it.

 

[Madtiger]

I'd surely love to drive one with this installed, but there is no way I'd take $65k leap of faith. I understand it's going to change throttle response, but it doesn't seem like it would solve the issue with the transmission being in too high a gear?


At the risk of derailing the thread you think the cruiser has better traction? I'm wondering what settings you were running on the raptor? I've owned a good amount of offroad vehicles and outside of the 2 door wranglers I'd put the Raptor up there for pure traction. If you were in baja mode trying to crawl then you might have problems. If you were aired down, mud/sand mode, 4lo and rear locker engaged traction usually isn't the issue. It's the SIZE that hurts the raptor, mostly the breakover. I've banged the side steps more than a few times on pretty mild stuff.

Granted I haven't wheeled a 200, but traction wise I was a bit worried about only a center diff lock and already thinking about how to get a rear locker in it.

My brother has a Raptor. Traction is NOT an issue with Raptors. Size, as you stated, is a huge factor against Raptor…but then again, LC is no slim Jim either.

The LC has CRAWL control which is very effective in crawling up rockledges etc. Is it as good as a locker? Debatable since each has their good and bad. CRAWL is better than Torsen limited slip that i think you have in your front IFS of Raptor. So, it’s probably a wash b/w LC and Raptor in terms of traction.

Articulation is also remarkably similar b/w Raptor and LC. RTI slightly favors LC but probably only significant on paper.

So, again, if you‘re going for LC over Raptor for off-roading, then that is a mistake. Clear advantage is not there.

If you’re going after LC for a more complete package (luxury, ride, off-road, reliability, and durability second to none), then go for it.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[residualboulders]

I'd surely love to drive one with this installed, but there is no way I'd take $65k leap of faith. I understand it's going to change throttle response, but it doesn't seem like it would solve the issue with the transmission being in too high a gear?


At the risk of derailing the thread you think the cruiser has better traction? I'm wondering what settings you were running on the raptor? I've owned a good amount of offroad vehicles and outside of the 2 door wranglers I'd put the Raptor up there for pure traction. If you were in baja mode trying to crawl then you might have problems. If you were aired down, mud/sand mode, 4lo and rear locker engaged traction usually isn't the issue. It's the SIZE that hurts the raptor, mostly the breakover. I've banged the side steps more than a few times on pretty mild stuff.

Granted I haven't wheeled a 200, but traction wise I was a bit worried about only a center diff lock and already thinking about how to get a rear locker in it.

I tried a pedal commander on my tacoma - waste of money. It just made the throttle super jumpy, but Tacoma's don't know when they need to shift to begin with. Not sure how it would do on the 200, I guess i just don't care enough to try it.

I kinda feel like the raptor and LC are just two different machines. I love my 200. Super smooth, really quiet, capable offroad, smaller size is a plus. Raptor is fast, spacious and growls. Mrs much prefers the 200 on trips due to the noise of the Raptor. I've owned my 200 for a couple of months and have already wheeled it more than I ever did the Raptor in the 2 years I owned it. Mostly because a lot of the offroad trails I want to explore here locally to me in WY are too narrow for the Raptor. Well, narrow enough I'd worry about scratching it all up. Even with the 200 it's tight.

I test drove a 200 about 6 months ago and loved it, but when I got back into the raptor I decided I'd miss the speed and space. But then I had a couple of electronic issues on the raptor, it was almost out of warranty, they announced no more LC's in the US so I decided it was time for a new LC.

But the Raptor was pretty sweet in a lot of ways. I'd really like to own both. I think I'd buy a Raptor again.

 

[boringdriver]

Oh I appreciate longevity. Here is a post from me in 2019 showing me wheeling my '07 FJ.

Lets see some pics of your FJ Cruisers

I went out wheeling in the snow on New Years morning. Watched the sun rise on 2019 at 10,000'. New Years Day 2019 by crazysanman posted Jan 3, 2019 at 6:38 AM

forum.ih8mud.com

But if something is going to last 20 years you'd better like driving it because you're going to be doing so for a very long time. Weirdly in both my FJ and 4runner when you floor those they will get up and go. The LC has 380 HP and 400-ish lb ft of torque, it just felt like it refused to downshift low enough to access that power even with the pedal to the floor.

I was disappointed at first too with my 15 LX 570. The amount of throttle I hit did not equate to the power I expected or gear it should be in. Surprisingly, the ECT mode set to POWER made a significant difference. I just leave it on that setting all the time. Now, I will say I did order a 2.6L Harrop supercharger as well