Thinking about swapping my Raptor for an LC200 (1 Viewer)

[coleAK]

I'd surely love to drive one with this installed, but there is no way I'd take $65k leap of faith. I understand it's going to change throttle response, but it doesn't seem like it would solve the issue with the transmission being in too high a gear?


At the risk of derailing the thread you think the cruiser has better traction? I'm wondering what settings you were running on the raptor? I've owned a good amount of offroad vehicles and outside of the 2 door wranglers I'd put the Raptor up there for pure traction. If you were in baja mode trying to crawl then you might have problems. If you were aired down, mud/sand mode, 4lo and rear locker engaged traction usually isn't the issue. It's the SIZE that hurts the raptor, mostly the breakover. I've banged the side steps more than a few times on pretty mild stuff.

Granted I haven't wheeled a 200, but traction wise I was a bit worried about only a center diff lock and already thinking about how to get a rear locker in it.

All add I have a ‘13 LX that is more capable then a LC stock vs stock.

I didn’t drive the Raptor, it’s owner did. Been out with him twice. He said it is his 2nd raptor, just moved here from the “lower 48”. Last fall sheep hunting and this spring to Eska falls. Both trips had my stock LX570 (on AT tires), Raptor, 80 series, a few Wranglers, and a bunch of side by sides. The raptor was the worst of the bunch, spins, skids, bottoms out, had to get winched out of a marsh, only rig that couldn’t make it all the way to eska.

and yes the 200 is large but the Raptor is 1-2’ longer and a good bit wider. I off road often up here in AK and this is the only raptor I’ve ever seen on the trails. See them all the time on the dunes when we are set netting salmon.

I had a g500 for the 9 years before the LX and a triple locked 80 for 17 years. I have never wished I had additional lockers in my LX.

I’m in Alaska. Most of my off-roading is to get to base camps for: hunting, summer skiing, camping, fishing, biking. Mostly technical “jeep roads” and ATV trails, beach sand, Glacer silt, open high alpine, Arctic roads, and bogs.

Yes the 200 is slow, trucks overall are slow. If a fast truck is what you want wait for a Cybertruck or other EV.

 

[Madtiger]

All add I have a ‘13 LX that is more capable then a LC stock vs stock.

I didn’t drive the Raptor, it’s owner did. Been out with him twice. He said it is his 2nd raptor, just moved here from the “lower 48”. Last fall sheep hunting and this spring to Eska falls. Both trips had my stock LX570 (on AT tires), Raptor, 80 series, a few Wranglers, and a bunch of side by sides. The raptor was the worst of the bunch, spins, skids, bottoms out, had to get winched out of a marsh, only rig that couldn’t make it all the way to eska.

and yes the 200 is large but the Raptor is 1-2’ longer and a good bit wider. I off road often up here in AK and this is the only raptor I’ve ever seen on the trails. See them all the time on the dunes when we are set netting salmon.

I had a g500 for the 9 years before the LX and a triple locked 80 for 17 years. I have never wished I had additional lockers in my LX.

I’m in Alaska. Most of my off-roading is to get to base camps for: hunting, summer skiing, camping, fishing, biking. Mostly technical “jeep roads” and ATV trails, beach sand, Glacer silt, open high alpine, Arctic roads, and bogs.

LX is more capable than LC? LOL Ok, for another thread.

 

[coleAK]

LX is more capable than LC? LOL Ok, for another thread.

With my ‘13 pre-“mega grill”
Stock vs stock, yes due to AHC.

 

[Madtiger]

With my ‘13 pre-“mega grill”
Stock vs stock, yes due to AHC.

Your clearance angles at highest matches that of LC i believe.

But at the highest setting, your axle articulation decreases significantly…so, what you gained in height, you lose in flex. And your ride turns worst.

AHC is great for towing (auto-levels) and getting in/out. Off-road, i would not consider an advantage or disadvantage .

 

[Madtiger]

To OP. Here are some LC data for you to compare with your Raptor.

LC RTI = 661:

 

[bigslacker]

Sounds like your friend just had the truck in the wrong mode for the conditions. Assuming it's a second gen everything is electronic. It's fully possible to mess things up. For instance if you manually set the dial to 4hi and then later select sport mode because you want some higher revs to say get up a muddy hill it will shift you back to 2hi. Ask me how I know about that one, haha!

Not as dumb as that, but if you set it to Baja mode you get 4hi, higher revs, tighter steering *BUT* most of the traction control gets turned off. It's awesome for high speed, but low speed slippery it's not the setting you want.

Neither of us were in the truck with him, but as I said in the OP I wheel just about every week in a variety of conditions from bone dry loose to snow, to mud. Traction in the raptor is outstanding, it's one of it's strong points. I'd bet on operator error.

Side note, I did a lot of work in AK before my current job. Mostly in and around Anchorage and Juneau. Amazing wilderness you have to play in out there. I never got to do any offroading. Would be cool to get back some time!

 

[ChaoticSquare]

I agree with the comments about the raptor having good traction. I don’t know that it’s as good as a LC, but it’s not a slouch. Just like anything else you need to have it in the right settings and do your job. It doesn’t have the weight over the rear wheels, but air down. I noticed many people didn’t air down much when I ran my raptor. A lot buy the truck for more high speed off-roading (or going to the grocery store) which is completely different from going on technical trails. Never had a problem getting to where I wanted to go so long as I was OK with the pinstripes. I put quite a lot of off-road miles on my truck, close to 30k in the 5 years I had it. It was beat up and rattled like crazy, but never let me down.

 

[coleAK]

Sounds like your friend just had the truck in the wrong mode for the conditions. Assuming it's a second gen everything is electronic. It's fully possible to mess things up. For instance if you manually set the dial to 4hi and then later select sport mode because you want some higher revs to say get up a muddy hill it will shift you back to 2hi. Ask me how I know about that one, haha!

Not as dumb as that, but if you set it to Baja mode you get 4hi, higher revs, tighter steering *BUT* most of the traction control gets turned off. It's awesome for high speed, but low speed slippery it's not the setting you want.

Neither of us were in the truck with him, but as I said in the OP I wheel just about every week in a variety of conditions from bone dry loose to snow, to mud. Traction in the raptor is outstanding, it's one of it's strong points. I'd bet on operator error.

Side note, I did a lot of work in AK before my current job. Mostly in and around Anchorage and Juneau. Amazing wilderness you have to play in out there. I never got to do any offroading. Would be cool to get back some time!

We were all appropriately aired down and all in 4low then entire time both trips. Both trips never got much above ~10mph. Both were more technical, not rock crawling but technical rock/dirt. The downhill out of Eska my teens make the trip 45 min faster on their mountain bikes (enduro rigs) then we do in trucks/ATVs.

Are you in S Tahoe? I was born and raised in Tahoe (23 years total) and raced at Sierra Nevada for a year before leaving in ‘94 to finish undergrad. Came back 97-00 for a “gap year(s)” before post grad. A raptor would be pretty awesome in N Nevada, we don’t have that kind of off-roading up here at all.

 

[bigslacker]

We were all appropriately aired down and all in 4low then entire time both trips. Both trips never got much above ~10mph. Both were more technical, not rock crawling but technical rock/dirt. The downhill out of Eska my teens make the trip 45 min faster on their mountain bikes (enduro rigs) then we do in trucks/ATVs.

Are you in S Tahoe? I was born and raised in Tahoe (23 years total) and raced at Sierra Nevada for a year before leaving in ‘94 to finish undergrad. Came back 97-00 for a “gap year(s)” before post grad. A raptor would be pretty awesome in N Nevada, we don’t have that kind of off-roading up here at all.

Yep, I live on lower Kingsbury. I can hit the trails at the top of Kingsbury and get to Spooner all on dirt. But most of my off-road is down in the valley. Johnson Lane has hundreds of miles of BLM land accessible. And there are numerous trails off 395, around Carson and Reno, etc. We're truly blessed up here not just with a ton off offroading but also every other outdoor activity known to man.

 

[300blk]

I just never thought of the Raptor as a very good trail vehicle because it’s just so damn wide and most people opt for the much longer crew cab model.

The 200 series is also very large, especially when you compare it to older land cruisers. But it is a legit mountain goat, nonetheless.

 

[nor_cal_cyclist]

Well, towing wise our TT is only 20 ft/5k lbs. The Raptor is impressive towing once you throw a WDH on it. But the RV life is not for me and I'm selling it anyway! The most this will be towing is a trailer with dirtbikes/quads which shouldn't tax it at all. Since you know the area, I'm usually wheeling out at Johnson ln in Minden. Sunrise pass rd is perfect for the high speed stuff, but then we get off into the side trails and the Raptor is definitely a big girl. Lots of pinstripes. Although it's not common, the LC200 would be slim by comparison.

Definitely tradeoffs on either side. I had a '19 4runner before the raptor and kind of wanted a more powerful version of that, but then I got an offer I couldn't refuse on the Raptor.

Side note: Hope you survived the 4th ok. The tourists were THICK down here in south shore. I'm lucky enough to live on lower kingsbury so I can run away to the valley for BBQs with all my friends to avoid that madness.

I also had a '17 4Runner before the 200. No comparison for comfort and build quality. The 4Runner was nice, but the 200 is on a different level.

I really like my Raptor. It's very comfortable and the power just adds to the fun. That said, the 200 is just as comfortable, if not more so, and I have a sports car for fast fun. So, my Raptor is heading to the local Ford dealer tomorrow...if they give me the phone quoted amount for it, I'll come home with 1 less vehicle in the "fleet."

As to the 4th, we still have our place up in Redding and evacuated to the heat for 2 weeks. Incline REALLY sucks around the 4th, so we take a vacation 2 weeks around the holiday. Plus this year it was in the upper 80's...not sure about your place, but we don't have A/C in Incline. A nice cool home made the 110+ temps in Redding tolerable.

 

[TeCKis300]

I wheel with a buddy's Raptor that's built with top shelf everything on 37s. It's in its element running open washing and fire roads, and no one would argue otherwise. Everywhere else, it's size becomes a not so small issue creating drama where there would be none. Even here in the southwest where you'd think all the open expanses would give the Raptor an advantage.

The 200-series can hold its own on open washes, and with some building can hold pretty strong pace itself. Everywhere else, the 200-series owns. He's had to turn around multiple times in pinches where he can't fit. Or technical areas where he can't choose a line because of size, has to fall back on the immense capability of the rig, and still winds up dinged up sliders on what would otherwise be no drama. Speaking of which, that's the name he gives my rig, because he knows everywhere he can take his rig, mine will follow with little to no drama. Or I'll take mine on obstacles where he won't have the confidence to do in his, even though his is built relatively more.

The 4WD systems are fundamentally different. The Raptor has multiple modes, but in AWD, it has limited torque distribution and heat capacity, as it uses wet clutches. The 200-series setup uses a mechanical center torsion diff that has unlimited torque partitioning capacity so it's more sure footed on mixed stuff, with longer life. Both have full locked center 4x4 mode.

We both tow large campers. Raptors use rather soft suspensions so it's not exactly suited well for heavier trailers. This could be said to be the same for the Land Cruiser, but the LX has as more adaptable dynamic suspension.

Comfort, there's no comparison. On, off, everywhere... the kids in the group will pick my car every time.

IMO with the throttle response - this is not as big of a deal and is just something that is just a characteristic of each car to get use to. The throttles are probably tuned a bit more linearly in the 200-series, particularly in the 8-speed '16+ models. It's also a matter of turbo powerbands that have more low to mid-range torque. I drive very disparate cars between my LX, Porsche Turbo, and Tesla on a daily basis. They're all so very different but I can appreciate and learn the personality of each. IMO, as a previous engine tuner, I hate throttle controllers as all they do is increase gain, while reducing throttle pedal finesse. I give my right foot a lot more credit to learn and adapt than rely on 3rd party gizmos. In return, maybe our expectations could be rewarded when it finds that balance world class OEMs aim for.

 

[Omega3651]

I just never thought of the Raptor as a very good trail vehicle because it’s just so damn wide and most people opt for the much longer crew cab model.

The 200 series is also very large, especially when you compare it to older land cruisers. But it is a legit mountain goat, nonetheless.

The 200 has the exact same wheel base as the 80 series and the 100 series-112.2
The 200 is 6 inches wider than a 80 series and 2 inches wider than a 100 series LC.

Why does everyone drone on that the 200 series is so huge?
Its definitely taller-but its not huge.

You want huge on a trail-try a HMMWV, its 7ft wide and 15ft long.

 

[CharlieS]

The 200 drives like a much larger vehicle than the 80. Similarly, the tundra isn't that much larger than a 200, but it feels like a substantially larger vehicle on the trail.

 

[300blk]

The 200 has the exact same wheel base as the 80 series and the 100 series-112.2
The 200 is 6 inches wider than a 80 series and 2 inches wider than a 100 series LC.

Why does everyone drone on that the 200 series is so huge?
Its definitely taller-but its not huge.

You want huge on a trail-try a HMMWV, its 7ft wide and 15ft long.

Because it’s a 3 ton brick?

 

[bigslacker]

I will say that the 200 didn't feel small, but it did feel much smaller than the Raptor, mainly width from the driver's seat. Keep in mind the Raptor is 86" wide, the 200 is 78". The Raptor is big on the trails but it does fine as long as you accept pinstripes as mandatory.

I have a sneaking suspicion there was something off with the 200 I drove. Reading people's comments online about passing power and watching vids like this:



Has made me think the '16 I drove had something wrong with the transmission, shift point programming, etc. It did *NOT* accelerate like that vid showed. I tried normal and ECT power modes. I said above a few times it seemed weird that it wouldn't downshift when I floored it. Just stayed in the same gear and kind of slowly rolled up from 40 to 60. Same dealer has a '20 on the lot, I'm gonna call and try to drive that one for comparison.

 

[bigslacker]

Or this vid. Watch at 5:55 where he's at 60 and floors it. This absolutely did not happen with the one I drove.

 

[Madtiger]

I am sure that you know this arleady…but 2016 and 2017 models need a TSB update for the transmission. Not sure if your 2016 has the TSB update…but maybe worth inquiring. My 2019 does what the above videos showed.

 

[bigslacker]

I am sure that you know this arleady…but 2016 and 2017 models need a TSB update for the transmission. Not sure if your 2016 has the TSB update…but maybe worth inquiring. My 2019 does what the above videos showed.

I know about the TSB but it's for harsh 1->2 shift or shudder. The '16 I drove was very smooth. It just seemed like it didn't hold revs and wouldn't kick down a gear or two when you stepped on it.

Also, can the transmission 'learning' be reset by jus disconnecting the negative battery cable and waiting a few minutes like most vehicles?

 

[bloc]

What altitude were you at for this test drive?