Thinking about swapping my Raptor for an LC200 (2 Viewers)

[bigslacker]

What altitude were you at for this test drive?

IIRC Carson City is 4800, went up highway 50 to 5800 ft. My house is at 6500 so anything is going to lose some power. I actually traded the 4runner for the raptor because it was such as dog loaded with camping gear/family. The raptor with it's turbos helps a little with that. But again, the problem seemed to be more shift point related than power. 3 of my friends drive Toyota 5.7's (2 tundras and a sequioa) and none of them complained about this.

 

[bloc]

IIRC Carson City is 4800, went up highway 50 to 5800 ft. My house is at 6500 so anything is going to lose some power. I actually traded the 4runner for the raptor because it was such as dog loaded with camping gear/family. The raptor with it's turbos helps a little with that. But again, the problem seemed to be more shift point related than power. 3 of my friends drive Toyota 5.7's (2 tundras and a sequioa) and none of them complained about this.

Find another one to drive. A raptor it ain’t, but it should be able to get out of its own way and yes transmission behavior is a big part of that. These engines do seem to need some revs to do what they do.

 

[coleAK]

Yep, I live on lower Kingsbury. I can hit the trails at the top of Kingsbury and get to Spooner all on dirt. But most of my off-road is down in the valley. Johnson Lane has hundreds of miles of BLM land accessible. And there are numerous trails off 395, around Carson and Reno, etc. We're truly blessed up here not just with a ton off offroading but also every other outdoor activity known to man.

Nice I grew up top of kingsbury (tramway loop). Eastern Sierra between pyramid lake and mammoth, Tahoe basin and out to the walker was the stomping ground of my youth. Hunting birds/deer, fishing, camping, BC skiing (before it was cool), biking,... AK now is a lot like that area was up until the mid 90’s when it blew up.

off roading in that part of the world even in the trees there is wide open compared with what we have in AK which is thick, dense, and lush.

I had a 1984 60 series that I spent my life savings on in 1990 that got me everywhere around there.

 

[Chewbacca]

Find another one to drive. A raptor it ain’t, but it should be able to get out of its own way and yes transmission behavior is a big part of that. These engines do seem to need some revs to do what they do.

Yep. I drive mine at 9000-10000 feet every day. It's not a sprinter (that's what my S6 is for), but has plenty of power to pass people going uphill, etc.

 

[TeCKis300]

What altitude were you at for this test drive?

Good call and I believe this is likely a big part what the OP is experiencing. I'm at 6000ft this week vacationing in Mammoth and it sure saps the scoot out of the car.

Common assumptions says 3% loss per 1k ft elevation. LC @381hp * 3% * 5 = 51hp loss, or 330hp.

Raptor makes 450hp stock and being a turbo powerplant, can make up much of that loss if the turbo compressor wheel has margin for more RPM which many turbo cars do. I'd conservatively estimate it to lose about 1.5%. Raptor @450 * 1.5% * 5 = 416hp.

Then consider that the LC is full time 4WD. Raptor is regularly RWD. That's going to potentially make for almost a 100HP functional difference at the wheels at altitude.

 

[bloc]

Does raptor D/C front driveline in RWD? If not there might not be much more parasitic loss, unless there is some other big difference in implementation.

Totally agree turbo induction is a whole different thing at altitude though.

Like OP I am very curious about transmission contribution, still. Driving another one could shed a lot of light.

 

[bigslacker]

Does raptor D/C front driveline in RWD? If not there might not be much more parasitic loss, unless there is some other big difference in implementation.

Totally agree turbo induction is a whole different thing at altitude though.

Like OP I am very curious about transmission contribution, still. Driving another one could shed a lot of light.

Yes, the Raptor's defult mode is 2hi, front driveline disconnected.

I spent a good couple of hours today test driving first a '20 200 and then back to the '16 I orignally drove. I mentioned my experience yesterday and suggested maybe they disconnect the battery to reset it.

ECT power on, the '20 pretty much performed like what I saw in the videos on the last page. Good acceleration 0-60 and used all it's revs. Going up the hill when I was cruising at 50 then floored it, kicked into a lower gear and after a second another gear. Much more like what I expected. After about a 40 minute loop I took it back and asked them for my sanity to drive the '16 again. The sales guy said sure no problem, do the same loop and if it is doing what it was yesterday we'll take it into service and check it out. Also said to make sure all the features worked since I was an enthusiast and knew about them. Not sure if they disconected the battery or if yesterday it hadn't 'learned' *BUT* today it performed almost exactly like the '20. I did the same loop and then did some very light offroading to make sure all the goodies worked which they did. It did feel very stable on the mini-trail even with lamestock tires.

Took it back thinking I had a tough decision to make now. Told them I had to sleep on it, talk with my wife, etc. Jumped in the raptor and drove away, I was immediately struck by how much faster, lighter low speed steering and general fun factor it had. I ended up going wheeling for a couple hours and decided I'm not at the point where I'm ready to give up the power, bed, big cab and commit to a 200 for the next 10+ years. I think the 200 is a really unique and cool vehicle but it's just not for me right now. Maybe it'll be in the cards for my wife when she's ready for her next vehicle.

I appreciate all the input, help and discussion in this thread, ya'll are awesome! I'll leave it with a pic of the test drive, purely in the interest of making sure all the features worked of course.

 

[bloc]

Even if you didn’t end up loving it as much as we do, this is valuable contribution to the knowledge base here. Glad you ended up with what you like.

 

[Chewbacca]

Yes, the Raptor's defult mode is 2hi, front driveline disconnected.

I spent a good couple of hours today test driving first a '20 200 and then back to the '16 I orignally drove. I mentioned my experience yesterday and suggested maybe they disconnect the battery to reset it.

ECT power on, the '20 pretty much performed like what I saw in the videos on the last page. Good acceleration 0-60 and used all it's revs. Going up the hill when I was cruising at 50 then floored it, kicked into a lower gear and after a second another gear. Much more like what I expected. After about a 40 minute loop I took it back and asked them for my sanity to drive the '16 again. The sales guy said sure no problem, do the same loop and if it is doing what it was yesterday we'll take it into service and check it out. Also said to make sure all the features worked since I was an enthusiast and knew about them. Not sure if they disconected the battery or if yesterday it hadn't 'learned' *BUT* today it performed almost exactly like the '20. I did the same loop and then did some very light offroading to make sure all the goodies worked which they did. It did feel very stable on the mini-trail even with lamestock tires.

Took it back thinking I had a tough decision to make now. Told them I had to sleep on it, talk with my wife, etc. Jumped in the raptor and drove away, I was immediately struck by how much faster, lighter low speed steering and general fun factor it had. I ended up going wheeling for a couple hours and decided I'm not at the point where I'm ready to give up the power, bed, big cab and commit to a 200 for the next 10+ years. I think the 200 is a really unique and cool vehicle but it's just not for me right now. Maybe it'll be in the cards for my wife when she's ready for her next vehicle.

I appreciate all the input, help and discussion in this thread, ya'll are awesome! I'll leave it with a pic of the test drive, purely in the interest of making sure all the features worked of course.

View attachment 2725015

To each his own. The world would be a boring place if we all liked the same things.

 

[Madtiger]

To each his own. The world would be a boring place if we all liked the same things.

If that is the case, then we would not see the end of Land Cruiser in USA.

 

[nor_cal_cyclist]

Following up on my truck...SOLD!

For the naysayers, here's the pict to prove it:

 

[bigslacker]

52k for a first gen, holy crap! The market is nuts. Congrats!

 

[ChaoticSquare]

I should have kept mine… haha!

 

[hickuptruck]

Holy smokes $52k for a 2014 Craptor? My buddy back in 2013 bought a new one at invoice from a volume Ford dealer outside of Dearborn for $41.5k before ttl. This is nuts.

 

[gx2lc]

Just wanted to chime in here to say that you’re one supercharger (and $8k + voided power train warranty) away from equalizing the performance gap

that said I heard that Magnusson and Harrop offer their own warranties…

 

[Artie]

I have a 2018 Navigator and it’s got the same engine as your Raptor. It has been a thing of beauty, until the cam phasers started to crap themselves a few weeks ago. Not only does this cause all types of crappy performance behaviors, it’s a $3k repair if your out of warranty and the repair is extensive and also wide spread throughout the 3.5 turbo. Just something to keep in mind when thinking about the Raptor in the next couple years. Thankfully, I got the extended warranty on mine so I’ll keep it until just before it runs out. On some Ford forums I’ve seen some trucks get multiple phaser repairs.

 

[bigslacker]

Just wanted to chime in here to say that you’re one supercharger (and $8k + voided power train warranty) away from equalizing the performance gap

that said I heard that Magnusson and Harrop offer their own warranties…

I did go down car guy logic with this option. But I also thought $65k vehicle + $8k SC + 5K suspension (King 2.5 with UCAs) + $3k wheels/tires = $81k and a 200 that may now be similar to my $55k stock truck. FWIW I also considered this option with my 4runner before buying the raptor, though the 4runner already had suspension and wheels/tires done. I needed to tow a camper and was really concerned about long term reliabilty being at the max tow rating. Not as much of an issue with a SC 200, though the reliability and dealer servicing become a ??. Love the idea, I may go down that path at some time in the future.

I have a 2018 Navigator and it’s got the same engine as your Raptor. It has been a thing of beauty, until the cam phasers started to crap themselves a few weeks ago. Not only does this cause all types of crappy performance behaviors, it’s a $3k repair if your out of warranty and the repair is extensive and also wide spread throughout the 3.5 turbo. Just something to keep in mind when thinking about the Raptor in the next couple years. Thankfully, I got the extended warranty on mine so I’ll keep it until just before it runs out. On some Ford forums I’ve seen some trucks get multiple phaser repairs.

Yep, cam phaser issues are well known. I've seen people on raptor groups deal with it multiple times, others never. So far so good on my end. There are over a million ecoboosts out there, even thousands having the issue needs to be in perspecive. But I *DID* purchase a 7 year 100k mile $0 deductable warranty from Flood Ford. $2k, cheap insurance.

Sucks that you had to get hit with the issue.

 

[TeCKis300]

Gotta give Ford credit to introducing the Ecoboost engine. A full decade ago now! To diehard V8 truck traditionalists no less.

We'll see a competitive engine in the 300-series and next gen Tundra. Hopefully that live up to Yota standards.

 

[Quarry]

I am having almost the exact same thoughts as OP, and I am surprised I found this relatively fresh thread, so thanks to everyone who posted here, it's been a really useful thread.

I have a '17 Raptor SCAB, about 100k miles, no major issues, runs like a champ and I love it. I recently welcomed a child into this world though and the boss would prefer a vehicle with 4 real doors. I also like the idea of having lots more interior space to throw my mountain bike. I regularly park downtown in a major city so losing a bit of the length would be a huge bonus for me as the number of available street parking spots would increase dramatically. In terms of off road, the Raptor suits what I deal with regularly, which is driving fast on gravel roads, potentially with huge ruts, holes, and washouts. I also do a fair bit of driving in open fields with lots of grassy lumps and muddy holes. Coming from the Raptor, I'm wondering if the LC200 is the best vehicle for me. Being in Canada, the Land Cruiser isn't available, but we have the LX570, and I could probably just import a LC from the USA if that proves to be the better option. To be honest I am surprised there is so few choices for real high performance 4x4 vehicles out there.

 

[AnyMal]

Go for it buddy. The thing about the LC is it just delivers on so many of the things we look for in a vehicle.

Yes I look at Range Rovers, G Wagens, and specially the new Escalade with lustful eyes but I've played that game before.
Ive done my fair share of trade ins/upgrades for the newer and shinier toys and all of the wasteful spending of my youth.
I would just rather keep my car longer and appreciate it and save the money.

If I keep my LX for 20 years and do the basic maintenance it needs, my calculated cost of ownership is insalely low. The crazy part about this is at 20 years, it will feel like a 10 year old car and sell for good money. Also, there is no other platform that will give me the peace of mind I'm looking for after that first decade if they even make it that far. Theres a reason the LC is THE hallmark car of the affluent. Where Ive lived in Austin and Houston is flooded with them and so is every other wealthy zip code in the US. My LX is not a Bentayga no, but I know better than that and so do most of those folks.

I dont know about your style, but I sold my nice watches years ago. I realized I don't like how loud they were despite being a watch fanatic since I learned to walk.
Hell if budget or longevity or practicality were no issue I would daily drive a G63 4X4² but in the real world, my car is almost perfect.