30 years out of a head gasket, not bad. I replaced mine last year. Runs like new.238k 1993 1FZFE
Let the rebuild commence
The reality of the Landcruiser Head Gasket Issue
- Thread starter The Raven
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Cruiserdrew
On the way there
I did mine at 110k miles. It was still good at the time. But the 100k since has been worry free. I can be in the middle of nowhere and not think about it. Eventually the OEM gasket will fail. Better to get ahead of it, Because if it fails, it may take your entire motor with it, This is not worth the mental energy of worry.
But these trucks are 25-30 years old. Maybe not worth doing much. I get it, But if take it on long trips, you should at least consider this as a PM.
But these trucks are 25-30 years old. Maybe not worth doing much. I get it, But if take it on long trips, you should at least consider this as a PM.
So with that thinking it’s about time to do it again.
Mine went 270k before it let go,
To each his own but there’s no way I would call replacing the HG PM
Hell I have had fords go 250k miles with out blowing the HG
No....not time to 'do it again' (assuming replacement was with a new Toyota gasket).
The new gasket is improved not only in material but with a few design features as well.
By the mid 90's head gaskets (on most vehicles) were no longer allowed to be made with asbestos. So that left all manufacturers scrambling to come up with 'something' to make them from.
The Toyota gaskets were not 'inferior' (for the time period) but not the equal of what is available now.
A competent replacement and avoiding overheating should give most owners a worry free seal that will likely outlast the owner. That can not be said for the original gasket....even though some (even mine) went over 300K miles before failure.
I've owned the vehicle (a '97) since it was 3 yrs. old and it was just turned in off a corporate lease. Maintenance records pretty complete.
I'm pretty much a maintenance freak and have done all the work since then. So mine went a lot longer than many. But IF you have the original head gasket....it is going to fail at some point (if you drive it much). How that impacts you... depends on where you are at the time, what you are doing and if you have another means of transportation for awhile.
Its important to understand that the head bolts on the 1FZ-FE engine are torque to angle fasteners. The initial torque for the 1997 LX450 is 29lbf ... then the bolts are turned in sequence CW 90 degrees ... then again in sequence an additional 90 degrees CW. They do not need re-torquing after initial install and the 'bolts' are reusable ... HOWEVER you MUST mic the headbolts before you reuse them!!!! According to the FSM "Using vernier calipers, measure the thread outside diameter of the bolt. Standard outside diameter is 10.85-11.00mm (0.4272 - 0.4331) ; Minimum outside diameter is 10.6mm (0.417) if the diameter is less than minimum replace the bolt." The measurement is made between two specific points on the threaded part of the bolt - ie between 25mm (0.98 in) below the top of the thread section of the bolt (bolt head being top) and 30mm (1.18in) below the top of the threaded section. Check the FSM for clarity please.
Sorry if that may be as clear as mud ... when I did my HG several years ago I measured the head bolts as outlined and found one bolt out of spec (ie stretched) and a second bolt right on the minimum ... the rest were fine. I replaced both. The interesting thing is that both bolts were from points adjacent to the rear of number 6 cylinder which is exactly where my HG failed!! Coincidence? I think not. I am not sure whether the out of spec head bolts are a cause or an effect. I am leaning towards the former. Many people seem to have experienced blown head gaskets in the no.6 cylinder region. It is possible that temps are higher near the firewall and the out of spec bolts are effected by the heat. OR during mfr these bolts are slightly overtorqued/stretched during the first step (ie above 29lbf) which is compounded by the additional 180degrees later added.
To anyone contemplating replacing the HG yourself .. there are super great tips on this site... the one I found most valuable was leaving the wiring harness in situ. Otherwise I pretty much followed the FSM ... and took lots of time, lots of pictures, lots of numbered tags taped to connectors etc. But I am certainly not in a hurry to do it again.
Sorry if that may be as clear as mud ... when I did my HG several years ago I measured the head bolts as outlined and found one bolt out of spec (ie stretched) and a second bolt right on the minimum ... the rest were fine. I replaced both. The interesting thing is that both bolts were from points adjacent to the rear of number 6 cylinder which is exactly where my HG failed!! Coincidence? I think not. I am not sure whether the out of spec head bolts are a cause or an effect. I am leaning towards the former. Many people seem to have experienced blown head gaskets in the no.6 cylinder region. It is possible that temps are higher near the firewall and the out of spec bolts are effected by the heat. OR during mfr these bolts are slightly overtorqued/stretched during the first step (ie above 29lbf) which is compounded by the additional 180degrees later added.
To anyone contemplating replacing the HG yourself .. there are super great tips on this site... the one I found most valuable was leaving the wiring harness in situ. Otherwise I pretty much followed the FSM ... and took lots of time, lots of pictures, lots of numbered tags taped to connectors etc. But I am certainly not in a hurry to do it again.
I have concluded that according to the installation instructions in my FSM .. the Lexus LX450 head bolts are 'Torque plus angle' additionally TTY bolts are NOT reusable as per this :
dannysengineportal.com
Torque Specification - Torque To Yield (TTY) - Torque, Plus Angle
Take the time to learn about the proper torque specification, the correct sequence and lubricant needed, to maintain a correct clamping load.
dannysengineportal.com
I have concluded that according to the installation instructions in my FSM .. the Lexus LX450 head bolts are 'Torque plus angle' additionally TTY bolts are NOT reusable as per this :
Torque Specification - Torque To Yield (TTY) - Torque, Plus Angle
Take the time to learn about the proper torque specification, the correct sequence and lubricant needed, to maintain a correct clamping load.
Torque Plus Angle or Torque to Angle is both a tightening 'technique' and type of bolt. In theory....a TTA bolt would retain its elasticity if not torqued beyond its limits and experience plastic deformation. A true TTY bolt on the other hand is specifically designed to be torqued to its 'yield point" BUT it is a very controlled yield point.
While I am firmly in the 'replace TTY bolts' camp.....I can see where they might be reused (once) if not permanently deformed beyond a certain point. So I can't say whether the procedure given in the FSM (to check diameter) for possible reuse (allowed by Toyota if within spec) is there to check for:
1. The overstretch of a TTA bolt (torqued to yield, not intended).
2. Or IF a TTY bolt is still within its control yield spec and therefore reusable (not to exceed its limit...into the failure point).
Perhaps Toyota Engineers can tell us which it is. But the torque process itself....is used on both types of bolts, so by itself is not a diagnostic tool to determine the bolt type.
I've always read they are TTY bolts, but I am happy to be corrected if that is not the case.
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Let's put this ARP stud question to bed. I'm in contact with ARP guy who's willing to get to the bottom of this, whether that's something off the shelf (that's a closer fit than the Opel) or something custom. Sent him a photo of an Opel stud beside a head bolt (forget which post I found that in). But he needs info I don't have, that I'm guessing someone here already does. Can you help me fill out this spec sheet for him, as precisely as possible? I don't even have the tools to do that, IF I had a bolt that wasn't already in use. Or maybe there's a Toyota document somewhere? (@cruiserdan? @OGBeno?) Guy is aware that it's a DOHC application with potential interference on the bottom end. Obviously HG thickness will vary a bit; .030 .120 is what I'm seeing on Cometic's site; not sure about stock...
Ah, here's that photo (credit to @Fj80oregon):
Ah, here's that photo (credit to @Fj80oregon):
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Agreed - it would be nice if a Toyota Engineer could pipe in now and again to help us refine 'the body of knowledge' that is being captured here. It is quite evident that we are united in wanted to offer the most accurate information we have available (one of the reasons I laboriously and carefully copy the specs out from the FSM in imperial and metric measures) a little support from Corp HQ to help us with that task wouldnt hurt ...and the fact that I am (as are many others) still, happily, daily driving a 27 year old vehicle that happens to be a Toyota cant hurt their reputation as a manufacturer of dependable and durable cars. Maybe I should remove the Lexus decals and stop giving them free advertising.
On another subject - ARP studs and bolts. I really like the idea but I am not sure their hardware - while admittedly top drawer material and construction - is any different from a design point of view than the headbolts I used on my 1962 Comet 144ci 6cyl??
Is it possible that the factory design of the current head bolts is better able (under normal use) to accommodate the differential in expansion rates between the aluminum head and the cast iron block .. separated by a composite metal gasket of some unknown alloy? IDK.
236k on my ‘97 original motor and HG. I’ve done all the fluids and I am Planning on a few big trips this summer. Should I be worried abt the head gasket failing? Been reading all these posts and it’s got me nervous.
No !!!
COYS
SILVER Star
By some very basic abductive reasoning, you should have it figured out by now. lol
I went from a no 200-300k vote to a yes 200-300k vote at 27xK. My guess is you'll see more of these votes shift over as US 1FZ-FEs live in that quarter century mark+ range. But hey, maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones.
I, for one, was glad to have mine go at the time it did and non-catastrophically. I feel lucky to have built an all new 1FZ-FE while parts are still available and am now enjoying a genuine article Toyota power plant as Toyota intended.
Enjoy the 80 ride!
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Thank you sir.
thanks for the info. Glad to hear everything went well for you. I’m hoping mine holds together for a while. Anybody want to go to Key West this summer? Lol. Planning some trips.
I'm about to look into a local shop doing mine. Burns coolant and tested positive for hydrocarbons. The last time I started it up last fall is also put out a lot of smoke. My plan is to purchase the Wit's End OEM head gasket kit. Anything else I should provide the shop with while I'm there? Unfortunately it doesn't seem like there's many shops in my area that have a lot of experience with 80's.
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
@PlainsCruiser, you're going to have a shop refresh your head (flatten, replaced valve seals, grind valves) and that's it, or you're going to have a shop pull the head, send it to a machine shop and then reinstall it? The difference is huge.
I completely understand that not everyone can do this in their driveway/garage, but that's what local clubs are for! This is for sure a project, but one that can be done between two weekends - one to teardown and start cleaning, clean during the week the head is at the machine shop, and the next weekend to finish cleaning and reinstall. Absolutely doable with a few tools and the Toyota FSM in hand.
If you do the work yourself, less the machine shop work, I'd replace all the rubber pieces in, and accessible from, the engine compartment, at a minimum. With the engine out, you can also replace the oil pan seals that are leaking all over your driveway.
You should also be prepared to replace, at least both knock sensors and an injector or injector connector (or two, or three). These plastic parts are old and do not get easier to remove with age.
Be especially careful with both the EGR sensor (the part that screws into the upper intake, on the brake booster side, opposite the EGR valve) and A/C cutoff switch connector (the harness side; the switch is on the head). Neither of these are available for purchase new.
At a minimum, regardless of who does the work, the throttle body and both intake halves should be cleaned of oil and carbon. And the IAC and TPS should be inspected while the throttle body is off the intake.
You can pull the head alone, but I wouldn't. I did that once, and once is enough. There is no savings by leaving the engine in place.
Having said that, a repair shop likely won't pull the engine, if they have no/little 80 experience, because it's typically not necessary, as a rule, for other engines. I would encourage them to do so; you can ask @OTRAMM why.
A repair shop also will eat you alive if you take parts to them. if they even allow you to do that. Most won't, claiming liability exposure. What they are really concerned with is losing part markup, which is where money is made.
IMHO, you really lose out by having a shop do this work for you, because having either the head or engine out allows you to comfortably access all the worn parts, not engine related (suspension bushings, shocks, not to mention general cleaning - which a shop absolutely won't do), as well as the engine accessories such as the power steering hoses, alternator and starter (which could both be rebuilt since you'll have them off), and all the seals and vacuum lines.
So you have a decision to make: do you want to do the least amount of work and pay the least amount of money now, or do as much as necessary, while this job is being done, knowing that you'll save in labor down the road.
It's by no means an easy question to answer and there isn't a right answer, just one that's right for you.
I completely understand that not everyone can do this in their driveway/garage, but that's what local clubs are for! This is for sure a project, but one that can be done between two weekends - one to teardown and start cleaning, clean during the week the head is at the machine shop, and the next weekend to finish cleaning and reinstall. Absolutely doable with a few tools and the Toyota FSM in hand.
If you do the work yourself, less the machine shop work, I'd replace all the rubber pieces in, and accessible from, the engine compartment, at a minimum. With the engine out, you can also replace the oil pan seals that are leaking all over your driveway.
You should also be prepared to replace, at least both knock sensors and an injector or injector connector (or two, or three). These plastic parts are old and do not get easier to remove with age.
Be especially careful with both the EGR sensor (the part that screws into the upper intake, on the brake booster side, opposite the EGR valve) and A/C cutoff switch connector (the harness side; the switch is on the head). Neither of these are available for purchase new.
At a minimum, regardless of who does the work, the throttle body and both intake halves should be cleaned of oil and carbon. And the IAC and TPS should be inspected while the throttle body is off the intake.
You can pull the head alone, but I wouldn't. I did that once, and once is enough. There is no savings by leaving the engine in place.
Having said that, a repair shop likely won't pull the engine, if they have no/little 80 experience, because it's typically not necessary, as a rule, for other engines. I would encourage them to do so; you can ask @OTRAMM why.
A repair shop also will eat you alive if you take parts to them. if they even allow you to do that. Most won't, claiming liability exposure. What they are really concerned with is losing part markup, which is where money is made.
IMHO, you really lose out by having a shop do this work for you, because having either the head or engine out allows you to comfortably access all the worn parts, not engine related (suspension bushings, shocks, not to mention general cleaning - which a shop absolutely won't do), as well as the engine accessories such as the power steering hoses, alternator and starter (which could both be rebuilt since you'll have them off), and all the seals and vacuum lines.
So you have a decision to make: do you want to do the least amount of work and pay the least amount of money now, or do as much as necessary, while this job is being done, knowing that you'll save in labor down the road.
It's by no means an easy question to answer and there isn't a right answer, just one that's right for you.
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Thank you for the thorough response, I appreciate it!@PlainsCruiser, you're going to have a shop refresh your head (flatten, replaced valve seals, grind valves) and that's it, or you're going to have a shop pull the head, send it to a machine shop and then reinstall it? The difference is huge.
I completely understand that not everyone can do this in their driveway/garage, but that's what local clubs are for! This is for sure a project, but one that can be done between two weekends - one to teardown and start cleaning, clean during the week the head is at the machine shop, and the next weekend to finish cleaning and reinstall. Absolutely doable with a few tools and the Toyota FSM in hand.
If you do the work yourself, less the machine shop work, I'd replace all the rubber pieces in, and accessible from, the engine compartment, at a minimum. With the engine out, you can also replace the oil pan seals that are leaking all over your driveway.
You should also be prepared to replace, at least both knock sensors and an injector or injector connector (or two, or three). These plastic parts are old and do not get easier to remove with age.
Be especially careful with both the EGR sensor (the part that screws into the upper intake, on the brake booster side, opposite the EGR valve) and A/C cutoff switch connector (the harness side; the switch is on the head). Neither of these are available for purchase new.
At a minimum, regardless of who does the work, the throttle body and both intake halves should be cleaned of oil and carbon. And the IAC and TPS should be inspected while the throttle body is off the intake.
You can pull the head alone, but I wouldn't. I did that once, and once is enough. There is no savings by leaving the engine in place.
Having said that, a repair shop likely won't pull the engine, if they have no/little 80 experience, because it's typically not necessary, as a rule, for other engines. I would encourage them to do so; you can ask @OTRAMM why.
A repair shop also will eat you alive if you take parts to them. if they even allow you to do that. Most won't, claiming liability exposure. What they are really concerned with is losing part markup, which is where money is made.
IMHO, you really lose out by having a shop do this work for you, because having either the head or engine out allows you to comfortably access all the worn parts, not engine related (suspension bushings, shocks, not to mention general cleaning - which a shop absolutely won't do), as well as the engine accessories such as the power steering hoses, alternator and starter (which could both be rebuilt since you'll have them off), and all the seals and vacuum lines.
So you have a decision to make: do you want to do the least amount of work and pay the least amount of money now, or do as much as necessary, while this job is being done, knowing that you'll save in labor down the road.
It's by no means an easy question to answer and there isn't a right answer, just one that's right for you.
A question for you, and others: the shop that I decided to schedule with let me know that they can get OEM head bolts for >$400, or aftermarket for ~$150. I asked for all OEM parts, which is why they contacted me. Is this a part that aftermarket will be sufficient?
IMO that's a steep markup on OEM.
I just checked I paid <$10 at Partsouq, but that was almost 2 years ago. Today they show $10.45 each
yikes. That is a big markup!
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
I use OEM, unless I can't get them. It may be OK to rebuild a 1990 GM 350 with parts store parts (because GM parts weren't any better), but this isn't that. You're rebuilding an engine in a 30 year old truck for a reason. How many large groups of people routinely do this for a 1995 Ford/Chevrolet/Dodge? What percentage of those are still on the road to be rebuilt?
This is the problem you always face when hiring someone to do the work for you; you can't escape it. Their markup is outrageous; show them this:
This is the online price McGeorge charges everyone. Even if they replace every head bolt (at retail, which they aren't paying) and add 20% for shipping, they're still making a killing.
Yes, it'll be more with shipping, because these things are boat anchors in a full set, but you only need to replace the stretched ones:
This is from the Toyota factory service manual, which you should insist they use.
I would not allow them to buy any parts until they tear the head down. Yes, it'll delay the build (maybe) to order parts after teardown, but then you won't buy parts you don't need. They have to wait for the machine shop anyway, and (almost) all the engine parts are stocked in Toyota warehouses.
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Malleus
Far west of Siegen
I wouldn't worry too much about whether your shop has 80 experience or not; I'd be more concerned about whether or not they could read. My two sons and my youngest daughter did a lot of work on the head I restored last year, and they have no experience at all building engines. They can read and follow instructions, though.
I can't overstate the need for them to have and use the FSM. Toyota designed this engine and the procedures for maintenance. It may be a tractor engine at heart, but it's not a Tinkertoy.
