The OFFICIAL clunk/thunk driveshaft thread

[AlpineAccess]

just have the service writer put it in the notes BEFORE they do the work. to swap CVs and flanges you do not need to open up the hub per the FSM. pull the wheel, pull the grease cap, take off snap ring, unbolt/remove hub. unbolt speed sensor wire/bracket. undo the control arms. unbolt steering arm. the hub/rotor stays attached to the steering knuckle and comes off as a unit. if you want new or repacked bearings you would need to request it. bottom line, if you want something request. they will do the bare minimum about as fast as they can.

swapping flanges is very very easy. special tools needed are torque wrench and snap ring pliers. cruiser outfitters sells all the snap rings in a pack.

i just opened my front end up a couple nights ago for the first time since purchasing. removing the grease cap immediately set the tone....

View attachment 2422244

not an OEM snap ring and not close to the right thickness. I have a click and a clunk. i will say that putting a new flange on backwards and twisting the axle CW and CCW showed play and the new flange slipped on like butter which is not ideal. it should be super tight with a new flange correct? i am to believe the axle is shot. im pretty sure they are original at 226k and perhaps the bearings are original as well. i am dreading having to pony up the 1500 or so for new axles and bearings but i want this thing solid and not shakey on the highway for some upcoming roadtrips. though unemployed at the moment, ill never have this kind of time again to do it so i might as well do it now, right?

In my experience I needed a rubber mallet and light taps to get the new flange over a new CV. ZERO play.

I'd post some pictures of your current CV's. They might be new, but those c-clips look like the aftermarket ones I had on my aftermarket CV's from the original owner. He had torn CV boots and a shop up-charged him for the work only 20k miles before I bought it from him. Those aftermarket CV's had nothing wrong with them and were totally fine until I added some lift - then got mild vibes. When I replaced them I did notice the factory flanges had movement on the CV's as well as the C-clip not being even close to the right gap.

My clunk is 90% gone after new CV's, and pulling my driveshafts so I could properly clean and repack the slip yolks. It was 95% gone when I used grease with moly in the slip yolks, but that stuff seemed to separate and get past the oil seal over 5k miles so I'm using a standard NGLI # 2 now and its still fine. There's the occasionally downshift and forward to reverse thump but that's just drivetrain lash and to be expected at this kind of mileage. Trans and motor mount bushings likely would take the edge off of it.

Whats interesting above is on the c-clip and hub someone took the time to mark them with a paint pen. Whats that about?

 

[kruisinkid]

yeah every other report of someone putting on new flanges seems to have to whack on them to some degree. but i had a good amount of lash with the new flange. the lash between old and new felt the same so i put the old one back on and put on an OEM snap ring with zero gap on the right side. i have no idea what the match marking is about. seems pointless to me.

my CVs were rebooted 20k ago i believe. the PO had 4WP put new aftermarket outboard shafts on and then 300 miles later had them swapped back to original because of "noise" and thus rebooted again. the inboard boot on the left side slung all its grease out over the last few thousand miles but i just put 8oz of sta lube cv grease in it and put a worm drive clamp on it. im 99% certain the click is on the right side. i repacked the outer bearing on the right as well and greased the spindle on the right. still clicking.....

 

[AlpineAccess]

yeah every other report of someone putting on new flanges seems to have to whack on them to some degree. but i had a good amount of lash with the new flange. the lash between old and new felt the same so i put the old one back on and put on an OEM snap ring with zero gap on the right side. i have no idea what the match marking is about. seems pointless to me.

my CVs were rebooted 20k ago i believe. the PO had 4WP put new aftermarket outboard shafts on and then 300 miles later had them swapped back to original because of "noise" and thus rebooted again. the inboard boot on the left side slung all its grease out over the last few thousand miles but i just put 8oz of sta lube cv grease in it and put a worm drive clamp on it. im 99% certain the click is on the right side. i repacked the outer bearing on the right as well and greased the spindle on the right. still clicking.....

Now that you say 4WP I get the paint pen. That's just one of their shop things, they mark EVERYTHING. I like it, but its a bit goofy to see on the hub flange clip.

I don't know how they put aftermarket outboard shafts into an OEM shaft but I'm sure someone makes an aftermarket piece. That being said, every aftermarket CV I've ever looked at for a 100 had 3 "spline" bearings and every OEM one had 6.

 

[kruisinkid]

it may have been the whole CV then that they installed and then quickly pulled instead. id have to go find the receipt again. im all for matchmarking but for parts that arent supposed to move from one another. so should i just bite the bullet and get new shafts and bearings? the truck shakes like a washing machine on the highway doing 76 or more. i also have ordered freedom UCAs that are due in mid to end of september. i doesnt make much sense to swap axles if would have to pop the UCA joint again.

 

[Patassa]

B. We need to rebuild the front end, you should trade it in.
C. We need to replace the CV's and flanges at a massive parts markup and an insane shop labor rate (which goes to overhead and not to the technician). They don't inspect/grease wheel bearings, they ALWAYS forget to grease the spindle bearing, they incorrectly pretension the hub nuts, re-use the old c-clip or don't gap and use the right size c-clip. The shafts wear prematurely and it repeats itself in another 30k, or the c-clip pops off and the CV shaft damages itself and the flange.

This was gold!

On B), yes you should totally "upgrade" to a nice Highlander or some s***.

 

[Patassa]

i am dreading having to pony up the 1500 or so for new axles and bearings but i want this thing solid and not shakey on the highway for some upcoming roadtrips. though unemployed at the moment, ill never have this kind of time again to do it so i might as well do it now, right?

Absolutely, if you plan to keep her. It's similar to the timing belt job..."while you're in there"....

Bearings aren't bad as long as you have something to cut the old bearing races and use that to knock the new one in with *long* brass punch. I did one side without a sawzall to cut the race so had to pound the new race in with just a brass punch, thought I broke my fingers a few times hitting them with the hammer, my punch was too short and it took a ton of hammering to get the race set. Hurt bad enough to go buy the sawzall and cut the old race on the next side.

 

[Patassa]

I'm going to order new front drive shaft, new CVs, and new drive flanges. If this doesn't fix the clunk, I'm done trying. There is nothing else to replace after this other than diffs and transfer case, at that point I'll just buy a new truck. We'll see if another thousand bucks finally puts this to bed.

Edit: $1300, ordered. Now I HAVE to keep it till 500k. Wheeee, 10 more years, let's go.

Can confirm, new front drive shaft made ZERO difference in my N to D clunk. But hey, new drive shafts are easier than changing the damn u joints when you don't have room for a press.
Axles are next, fingers crossed.

 

[AlpineAccess]

If your bearings have been serviced regularly there is no need to replace them. Plenty of info around here on doing that job yourself, or bring to a specialty shop as a better option.

 

[kruisinkid]

fortunately im well versed in bearing jobs. did my 80 years ago and did my 40 this spring. if the hobo freight race kit i have doesnt have the right size, ive been successful enough with a brass drift and hammer.

from the old maintenance records, my bearings have only been repacked twice in 226k. 8k ago and maybe 100k before that. so not really regular. the claw washer was a little grooved on the right side, so also not a great sign. the only lettering left on the bearing was "timken". were all LC's built with koyo's?

 

[TunaMelt]

For what it’s worth, I took the risk on aftermarket CV axles when I tried to alleviate this clunking. I saw movement with a paint line on the CV when going from Park to Drive. Replaced everything and have had good success with the CV’s and eliminating the slop. But, the clunk is still there and I’m almost certain it’s my front diff now. I’ve been pleased with my choice to go cheaper aftermarket on the CVs (cardone with the thermoplastic boots).

 

[Mike NXP]

For what it’s worth, I took the risk on aftermarket CV axles when I tried to alleviate this clunking. I saw movement with a paint line on the CV when going from Park to Drive. Replaced everything and have had good success with the CV’s and eliminating the slop. But, the clunk is still there and I’m almost certain it’s my front diff now. I’ve been pleased with my choice to go cheaper aftermarket on the CVs (cardone with the thermoplastic boots).

Interesting, if you follow this thread there are more cases of people throwing parts at the truck and the clunk never really going away.

Everyone starts with the greasing of the drive shafts, then maybe a front diff bushing or two, finally a hub flange + CV repair, but the clunk never goes away. I suppose if something is worn it should be replaced but to say replacing your worn parts will fix your clunk is not guaranteed.

This brings me back to my comment a few days ago, am I crazy for bringing my truck to Toyota to be diagnosed? I'd like to think they have technicians who understand this better than I do and if something is screwed up during any repair/diagnosing I can hold them accountable.

 

[TunaMelt]

Interesting, if you follow this thread there are more cases of people throwing parts at the truck and the clunk never really going away.

Everyone starts with the greasing of the drive shafts, then maybe a front diff bushing or two, finally a hub flange + CV repair, but the clunk never goes away. I suppose if something is worn it should be replaced but to say replacing your worn parts will fix your clunk is not guaranteed.

This brings me back to my comment a few days ago, am I crazy for bringing my truck to Toyota to be diagnosed? I'd like to think they have technicians who understand this better than I do and if something is screwed up during any repair/diagnosing I can hold them accountable.

I don’t think that’s crazy. I think there’s tons of spots to have slop in this drivetrain. I believe it’s worthwhile to talk directly to the techs before leaving it so they get a feel for what you’re looking for. I think they’ll be able to tell you if it’s your cv flanges, differential, or something on the driveshaft. Mine is from the input shaft to the front diff moving when my CVs are not moving. To me that’s excessive play at the ring and pinion.

 

[Mike NXP]

Well, an hour labor at Toyota and the verdict was to stop worrying so much and the clunk is cause by excess play in the diffs.

Technician inspected wheel bearings , hubs , CVS, and everything checked out . Driveshafts have been serviced . Front diff bushings have been reolaced as well..


At this point I'm inclined to just deal with the clunking and stop being a hypochondriac and trying to find problems

 

[Patassa]

How bad of a job is it to replace main gears in front diff? I clearly hate myself or the clunk drives me nuts.

 

[Mike NXP]

How bad of a job is it to replace main gears in front diff? I clearly hate myself or the clunk drives me nuts.

Good question, and I totally agree the clunk drives me nuts as well. On my drive away from Toyota, as I would coast and then get back on the gas , it was just clunking the day away. Doesn't seem normal to me.


My thing is no one can give me a confident diagnosis and I don't want to throw parts at it. It's just hard to pinpoint where the issue is coming from, so their concept is start with the diff and work your way out.

Anyway, will drive it for a few months until it drives me crazy again and will try to diagnose further.

 

[TunaMelt]

If you want to replicate slop in the diff get under the truck and you can move the front driveshaft with your hand while the CVs don’t move. That’s the wear or incorrect lash at the input pinion gear and ring gear. For now, go from park to D really quickly to minimize banging. Or even better, let it relax in Neutral before going to D. You can even watch the front driveshaft move halfway through its slop while relaxing in Neutral if you have a friend do it. If you get under the truck and find no movement with your hand at the driveshaft, cycle through R and D then try again. It’s there.

 

[Mike NXP]

If you want to replicate slop in the diff get under the truck and you can move the front driveshaft with your hand while the CVs don’t move. That’s the wear or incorrect lash at the input pinion gear and ring gear. For now, go from park to D really quickly to minimize banging. Or even better, let it relax in Neutral before going to D. You can even watch the front driveshaft move halfway through its slop while relaxing in Neutral if you have a friend do it. If you get under the truck and find no movement with your hand at the driveshaft, cycle through R and D then try again. It’s there.

To your point, for sure, if I do a small roll into neutral before shifting its buttery smooth. Your thought is that may relate to some slop in the front diff /drivetrain?

I'd like to think the tech at Toyota knows more about this than I do, so if he tells me the CVS, Hubs, and Bearings are good, I'm inclined to look elsewhere but rebuilding a front diff doesn't seem worth it at this point. Damn clunk.

 

[kruisinkid]

im not saying the toyota tech was wrong. but he doesnt know what we know about these trucks. there is absolutely slop in all of our diffs and there is a certain amount of lash in the gears straight from the factory. however, as the 28 pages of this thread and many other clunk threads have proven, you can minimize existing clunk found in other areas. it all adds up. think about the order of power delivery from the transfer case to the wheel and where there can be clunk:

-transfer to driveshaft to front diff
-front diff to CV's
-CVs to hub flanges
-hub flanges to hubs (which contain the bearings and should be properly preloaded)
-periphery items that can accumulate clunk and slop: control arm bushings and their ball joints, as well as the various front diff bushings

i urge you to jack up a tire, pull it off, remove the hub flange, flip it over and slide it back on the end of the axle shaft and twist as gentle as possible. if the flange has ANY movement BEFORE the axle shaft starts to move, you at least need new flanges. once you have new flanges, do the same test again with the new ones, if there is still slop, your CV splines are worn too much. replace CVs. get a fish scale at the same time and check preload on the bearings. too loose? tighten her up. dont know when the last time the bearings were repacked? repack them. drop the front skid and get a helper and do the DNR test to inspect front diff bushings. there is a video of what to look for out there.

moral of the story is, replacing the R and P is the last thing you want to do. there are so many other things to test and replace that can minimize the clunk.

 

[Mike NXP]

im not saying the toyota tech was wrong. but he doesnt know what we know about these trucks. there is absolutely slop in all of our diffs and there is a certain amount of lash in the gears straight from the factory. however, as the 28 pages of this thread and many other clunk threads have proven, you can minimize existing clunk found in other areas. it all adds up. think about the order of power delivery from the transfer case to the wheel and where there can be clunk:

-transfer to driveshaft to front diff
-front diff to CV's
-CVs to hub flanges
-hub flanges to hubs (which contain the bearings and should be properly preloaded)
-periphery items that can accumulate clunk and slop: control arm bushings and their ball joints, as well as the various front diff bushings

i urge you to jack up a tire, pull it off, remove the hub flange, flip it over and slide it back on the end of the axle shaft and twist as gentle as possible. if the flange has ANY movement BEFORE the axle shaft starts to move, you at least need new flanges. once you have new flanges, do the same test again with the new ones, if there is still slop, your CV splines are worn too much. replace CVs. get a fish scale at the same time and check preload on the bearings. too loose? tighten her up. dont know when the last time the bearings were repacked? repack them. drop the front skid and get a helper and do the DNR test to inspect front diff bushings. there is a video of what to look for out there.

moral of the story is, replacing the R and P is the last thing you want to do. there are so many other things to test and replace that can minimize the clunk.

I like your logic here for sure, and my though is start with the hubs and work my way in from there, which is why I had it inspected today. I was shocked to hear them say bearings don't need service and my splines are not worn. I was ready to replace it all, or at least repack bearings just for preventative maintainence sake
>> Could this guy really not see wear in these parts, I went for a ride with him and was very specific. He claims he has alot of experience in the 100 series.


Anyway, maybe I need to stop being a bitch and just inspect it myself one day.

 

[kruisinkid]

yes you need to inspect it yourself unless money is no object. for someone like yourself, and i mean no offense by this, there are three ways this is going to go: money is no object and you have everything that could clunk replaced, you learn how to service these things yourself and save the money on labor and learn a lot in the process, or you dont do anything and get super frustrated over the clunk and sell it in 3 months. i guess you could call it the ferrari/land cruiser/jaguar law of vehicle ownership. again, no offense.

you will have to throw parts at it, but its a very educated method of which parts do you throw first. to take the flange off, you would need a brass drift and snap ring pliers. to look at the bearings, you would need a 54mm socket like one from cruiseroutfitters.com. best of luck!