The Official 1HD-T/FT Fuel Pump Mod Tuning Thread
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This thread is about the fuels pump on 1Hz, 1HD-T, 1HD-FT and 1HD-FTE.
It's simple seen, TWO pumps VE6 ?? and VP6 ??.
I think is we should stick to these pumps.
Although Clearly I want to know what you think of other points. Especially engine - gear. However, it does not belong to this thread.
Nor a 1HD-FT D4D.
I build in 1HD-FT and 1HD-FTE WITHOUT E (VP)
There is small difference between the 1HD-FT and the 1HD-FTE. As a bit better cooling strategic places at the top. There are one or two other things that I do not remember right now.
Please.
Pm me or refer to other threads where the other issues can be discussed.
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What I look for are:
A VE pump with electronic ignition control. (Not a modifyed VP)
Electrical rpm limitation.
Enough fuel for even the wildest build.
Regulereing of fuel compared to the boost pressure from idle to ???? RPM.
As, for the thread additional topic, it is clear that the injector nozzles are very important. Otherwise, such a pump will easily self-destruct.
At this stage there is no limitation as long as we are at VE6 ?? pump - possibly P pump (but not very interesting because I do not want such a pump. But it is an option.)
Parts - things to discuss, as a starting point:
Pump plunger. 14mm if it is in usable quality.
Cross cam plate. Immediate the part that looks weakest.
Cam plate. Available with different pump height. Up to 4 mm.
Fuel pin. Here, there may be possibilities for regulating a number of ways.
Internal pump pressure - fuel feed pressure.
My wish is:
Short injection discharge time (injection length).
Correct injection time. Possibly closed-loop.
Mechanical pump and the correct amount of fuel compared to the needs of given charged pressure.
With 14mm pump plunger one gets short injector length, for a given amount of fuel.
Cross cam plate/drive can probably be made in stronger steel than the original.
Cam plate can have up to 4 mm lift. With larger lifts, each injection providing more fuel. But shorter time to fill the pump plonger with fuel for the next injection. Here I will probably find one with less lift (something like 2.8mm) than standard (3.2mm as I recall)
Fuel pin must be adapted. But could be replaced by a stepper motor. Which requires too much electronics and is will be easier to use a VP pump (1HD-FTE) Which is just a stepper motor and associated control.
Internal pump pressure has no significance with electronic fuel injection time. And should be as low as possible but high enough to fill the pump plonger, with the given construction and maximum rpm. Therefore it would be appropriate with an external inner pump pressure regulation.
Finally, there is the temperature in the pump and filtration.
Optimal temperature for the fuel in the pump is approximately 60 degrees C as I recall. It helps when starting from cold and changing oil viscosity.
I think I remember the standard is 10my so a filtrereing better than it will only be an advantage.
I have not written this post to demean any of your post. No suggestion is silly, but can help to learn writer and others something.
I wrote this to try to get the answers I need to learn and think about my building and my desire.
Out of respect for the thread. I know too well long threads that takes hours to read through in order to try to find the specefike information I want.
Yes I know it's out of the box to remove the rpm controller in the pump and make it electronically. However, it is an attempt to get more flexibility and, if necessary relieve the drive from the pump to the engine.
If this inspire others to do something different, it is not wasted to discuss from these thoughts.
Please respect that this has taken hours for me to write because English is not my language.
If I wrote in Danish, I believe many of you will find it difficult to read and respond.
Pump plunger:
Cam plade and X drev:
Vane pumpe:
Pumpe drev:
It's simple seen, TWO pumps VE6 ?? and VP6 ??.
I think is we should stick to these pumps.
Although Clearly I want to know what you think of other points. Especially engine - gear. However, it does not belong to this thread.
Nor a 1HD-FT D4D.
I build in 1HD-FT and 1HD-FTE WITHOUT E (VP)
There is small difference between the 1HD-FT and the 1HD-FTE. As a bit better cooling strategic places at the top. There are one or two other things that I do not remember right now.
Please.
Pm me or refer to other threads where the other issues can be discussed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I look for are:
A VE pump with electronic ignition control. (Not a modifyed VP)
Electrical rpm limitation.
Enough fuel for even the wildest build.
Regulereing of fuel compared to the boost pressure from idle to ???? RPM.
As, for the thread additional topic, it is clear that the injector nozzles are very important. Otherwise, such a pump will easily self-destruct.
At this stage there is no limitation as long as we are at VE6 ?? pump - possibly P pump (but not very interesting because I do not want such a pump. But it is an option.)
Parts - things to discuss, as a starting point:
Pump plunger. 14mm if it is in usable quality.
Cross cam plate. Immediate the part that looks weakest.
Cam plate. Available with different pump height. Up to 4 mm.
Fuel pin. Here, there may be possibilities for regulating a number of ways.
Internal pump pressure - fuel feed pressure.
My wish is:
Short injection discharge time (injection length).
Correct injection time. Possibly closed-loop.
Mechanical pump and the correct amount of fuel compared to the needs of given charged pressure.
With 14mm pump plunger one gets short injector length, for a given amount of fuel.
Cross cam plate/drive can probably be made in stronger steel than the original.
Cam plate can have up to 4 mm lift. With larger lifts, each injection providing more fuel. But shorter time to fill the pump plonger with fuel for the next injection. Here I will probably find one with less lift (something like 2.8mm) than standard (3.2mm as I recall)
Fuel pin must be adapted. But could be replaced by a stepper motor. Which requires too much electronics and is will be easier to use a VP pump (1HD-FTE) Which is just a stepper motor and associated control.
Internal pump pressure has no significance with electronic fuel injection time. And should be as low as possible but high enough to fill the pump plonger, with the given construction and maximum rpm. Therefore it would be appropriate with an external inner pump pressure regulation.
Finally, there is the temperature in the pump and filtration.
Optimal temperature for the fuel in the pump is approximately 60 degrees C as I recall. It helps when starting from cold and changing oil viscosity.
I think I remember the standard is 10my so a filtrereing better than it will only be an advantage.
I have not written this post to demean any of your post. No suggestion is silly, but can help to learn writer and others something.
I wrote this to try to get the answers I need to learn and think about my building and my desire.
Out of respect for the thread. I know too well long threads that takes hours to read through in order to try to find the specefike information I want.
Yes I know it's out of the box to remove the rpm controller in the pump and make it electronically. However, it is an attempt to get more flexibility and, if necessary relieve the drive from the pump to the engine.
If this inspire others to do something different, it is not wasted to discuss from these thoughts.
Please respect that this has taken hours for me to write because English is not my language.
If I wrote in Danish, I believe many of you will find it difficult to read and respond.
Pump plunger:
Cam plade and X drev:
Vane pumpe:
Pumpe drev:
Last edited:
Perhaps start a thread specifically about using 14mm pump elements?
I'm not sure you are correct with some of your statements re timing and injection time.
To increase injected volume beyond what a 12 or 13mm pump can deliver, you either need to increase plunger stroke, or plunger diameter.
If plunger diameter is increased, and stroke stays the same, how will your injection duration change?
I think also, you comment that increased time for fuel to fill the plunger will be an advantage. how is this a benefit?
Again, I'm not sure, but I think going to a larger diameter plunger could possibly reduce some of your tuning capability?
I'm not sure you are correct with some of your statements re timing and injection time.
To increase injected volume beyond what a 12 or 13mm pump can deliver, you either need to increase plunger stroke, or plunger diameter.
If plunger diameter is increased, and stroke stays the same, how will your injection duration change?
I think also, you comment that increased time for fuel to fill the plunger will be an advantage. how is this a benefit?
Again, I'm not sure, but I think going to a larger diameter plunger could possibly reduce some of your tuning capability?
Cummins and Nissan patrol both use VE rotary pump, so they are useful comparisons of what power level the pump is capable of supporting.
Particularly with Nissan patrol which is also a 4.2 litre engine
Particularly with Nissan patrol which is also a 4.2 litre engine
``Perhaps start a thread specifically about using 14mm pump elements?´´
Thanks for the idea. Possibly when it seems that this thread will be active. For a thread without active participants is not something to spend time on.
If there is a thread, it is interesting.
------
``I'm not sure you are correct with some of your statements re timing and injection time.´´
Timing is very important for the economy and power.
Injection duration is also pertinent, but not something that is spoken so much about.
------
``To increase injected volume beyond what a 12 or 13mm pump can deliver, you either need to increase plunger stroke, or plunger diameter.´´
I increases plunger diameter to reduce plunger stroke. For in this way to get smaller injection duration.
------
``If plunger diameter is increased, and stroke stays the same, how will your injection duration change?´´
Injection duration will be smaller due to higher volume injected / time. Thus less Injection duration of the required amount of fuel for a give power. (= Less heat. Due to MORE correct injection time).
------
``I think also, you comment that increased time for fuel to fill the plunger will be an advantage. how is this a benefit? ´´
There is ONLY one plunger to pump 6 cylinders (3 times / engine rotation). When RPM increases, the time to fill the pump piston chamber gets smaller and smaller. This with a relatively low pressure in the pump housing may can - will result in cavitation - starvation. ( Cavitation = when air bubbles is generated by the high vacuum when a liquid can not flow to low pressure spot.
------
``Again, I'm not sure, but I think going to a larger diameter plunger could possibly reduce some of your tuning capability?´´
It's one of the things I would like to hear about from people with experience in VE6 / 14 pumps.
I hope that the problems will concentrate on fuel, related to the boost pressure.
The ignition, I master via electronic ignition and perhaps closed loop.
Clearly I want lambda meter on so I can always see what happens, with fuel. When the engine is adjusted, I do not need EGT or boost for other reason than to see how much I loads the engine. But I will probably have both but not centrally located. .
------
``Cummins and Nissan patrol both use VE rotary pump, so they are useful comparisons of what power level the pump is capable of supporting.
Particularly with Nissan patrol which is also a 4.2 litre engine´´
Quite right.
But many modify for power without really worrying about the economy.
Many have tasted the sour par in built without thinking so much on durability.
For race and hobby can all things be good enough.
I build for durability, economy AND power. In that order.
Construction cost is less important. I just have to wait and learn as long as ther is no money.
------
VE pump with electronic ignition and closed loop.
(Note there is NO ignition offset built into the pump).
------
Note there is ignition offset built into the pump.
It is not needed with electric ignition.
Thanks for the idea. Possibly when it seems that this thread will be active. For a thread without active participants is not something to spend time on.
If there is a thread, it is interesting.
------
``I'm not sure you are correct with some of your statements re timing and injection time.´´
Timing is very important for the economy and power.
Injection duration is also pertinent, but not something that is spoken so much about.
------
``To increase injected volume beyond what a 12 or 13mm pump can deliver, you either need to increase plunger stroke, or plunger diameter.´´
I increases plunger diameter to reduce plunger stroke. For in this way to get smaller injection duration.
------
``If plunger diameter is increased, and stroke stays the same, how will your injection duration change?´´
Injection duration will be smaller due to higher volume injected / time. Thus less Injection duration of the required amount of fuel for a give power. (= Less heat. Due to MORE correct injection time).
------
``I think also, you comment that increased time for fuel to fill the plunger will be an advantage. how is this a benefit? ´´
There is ONLY one plunger to pump 6 cylinders (3 times / engine rotation). When RPM increases, the time to fill the pump piston chamber gets smaller and smaller. This with a relatively low pressure in the pump housing may can - will result in cavitation - starvation. ( Cavitation = when air bubbles is generated by the high vacuum when a liquid can not flow to low pressure spot.
------
``Again, I'm not sure, but I think going to a larger diameter plunger could possibly reduce some of your tuning capability?´´
It's one of the things I would like to hear about from people with experience in VE6 / 14 pumps.
I hope that the problems will concentrate on fuel, related to the boost pressure.
The ignition, I master via electronic ignition and perhaps closed loop.
Clearly I want lambda meter on so I can always see what happens, with fuel. When the engine is adjusted, I do not need EGT or boost for other reason than to see how much I loads the engine. But I will probably have both but not centrally located. .
------
``Cummins and Nissan patrol both use VE rotary pump, so they are useful comparisons of what power level the pump is capable of supporting.
Particularly with Nissan patrol which is also a 4.2 litre engine´´
Quite right.
But many modify for power without really worrying about the economy.
Many have tasted the sour par in built without thinking so much on durability.
For race and hobby can all things be good enough.
I build for durability, economy AND power. In that order.
Construction cost is less important. I just have to wait and learn as long as ther is no money.
------
VE pump with electronic ignition and closed loop.
(Note there is NO ignition offset built into the pump).
------
Note there is ignition offset built into the pump.
It is not needed with electric ignition.
- Thread starter
- #506
I still think you should stick with the 12mm.
You have a few options, larger injectors and or larger cam plate which will increase your stroke length. Gturbo does larger injectors from what I remember
You have a few options, larger injectors and or larger cam plate which will increase your stroke length. Gturbo does larger injectors from what I remember
Not much has been mentioned about how or where to get bigger injectors from to match these pump mods. Perhaps it could be mentioned in this thread instead of starting another. If it starts getting technical then New thread it is. But if it's as simple as: get yanmar injectors and have them set correctly then everyone's a winner.
I have not written that I DO NOT want to use 12mm plunger. But I would like to learn more about 14mm.
A little inspiration for what a little oil and some mechanics can.
As from this that give black smoke:
There are two clips with the Nissan. They are right after each other (6:25)
(I could not start this video on 6m25s
Move the start to there.) Sorry
With another timing program for injection start and little change in the amount you can do very much.
This is actually more impressive, then the Nissan.
Kubota FARM TRACTOR owned MITSUBISHI PICKUP TRUCK in Drag Racing !!!
A little inspiration for what a little oil and some mechanics can.
As from this that give black smoke:
There are two clips with the Nissan. They are right after each other (6:25)
(I could not start this video on 6m25s
Move the start to there.) Sorry
With another timing program for injection start and little change in the amount you can do very much.
This is actually more impressive, then the Nissan.
Kubota FARM TRACTOR owned MITSUBISHI PICKUP TRUCK in Drag Racing !!!
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Short injection duration is a plus. But there must also be negatives to the 14mm or more people would use them . What power/torque in what rpm range are you aiming for, you haven't mentioned a goal yet. 300hp+ is more like 170cc+ . I asked my pump builder (diesel central) and he recommended the 12. He didn't say why but said the 14mm was more trouble than it's worth . So unless you are aiming For BIG power might be less trouble sticking to the 12mm . Be a fun project though .
Just me speculating but I suspect the drop in case pressure at hi rpm when flowing hi volumes adversely effects timing to the point that power is lost . Even though a 14mm pump may give short injection duration if it's started to late, it's already to late .
Just me speculating but I suspect the drop in case pressure at hi rpm when flowing hi volumes adversely effects timing to the point that power is lost . Even though a 14mm pump may give short injection duration if it's started to late, it's already to late .
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got these parts for boost compensator in todays mail, spacer plate and O ring, stiffer spring that does away with the star wheel and tension is set with supplied shims, longer bolts to replace allen head screws.
What's the point of this? Is it not easier to adjust spring tension with the star wheel than having to change shims?
not sure about the shims but guess stiffer spring when yours it's too weak even with if it's all compress given your boost numbers ..
yes Tapage, I was after more spring pressure, and raising the fuel pin. My star wheel is wound up so far its nearly out of the adjusting clips, and may even be coil binding on compression. I was told this new stiff spring is too tall to use the star wheel but matched to the higher boost pressure, so I will try this method with shims
quite a bit of difference in size
You can get the pin back in by removing the 17mm bolt on the front it releases the spring tension of the follower pin so you can slide the boost pin back in
true, but if you have an auto trans. the TPS gets in the way a bit, I find the chamfered grind on the bottom of the pin the easier way
the stiffer spring setup seems to work better with the higher boost
Quick question... does anyone have the exact measurement of the 1HD-T stock aneroid pin length? 1993+
Bonus points: Is it the same length as the 1HD-FT?
Bonus points: Is it the same length as the 1HD-FT?
I can probably measure my stock fuel pin tonight for you, you're looking for tip-to-tip length?