Builds The Mule: My OM617 swap and other improvements (3 Viewers)

[bj40green]

A question for the masses:

Where is the best place for the voltage regulator to "remote" sense voltage in the system? If I remember correctly, sensing at the battery would be dumb because there is voltage drop between the battery and whatever it's powering. In this case the voltage regulator believes it is doing it's job and maintaining voltage at the battery, but voltage will be low at the point of use.

I guess I need to pull out a wiring diagram and see where the voltage regulator sensed voltage?

Another problem is the rat's nest of wiring, but that's whole other issue...

Paging @Coolerman and @bj40green

Here you go,

The alternator/regulator charges the battery and keeps the battery in good condition. What happens after the battery is another problem.
Bad contacts, too much load on the wires, wrong wire sizes all are responsible for voltage loss.

Rudi

 

[DPV7070]

Here you go,
View attachment 1072738

The alternator/regulator charges the battery and keeps the battery in good condition. What happens after the battery is another problem.
Bad contacts, too much load on the wires, wrong wire sizes all are responsible for voltage loss.

Rudi

I'm trying to apply the supplied example which is a Toyota 4 wire to my Bosch example, so bear with me.

Are you saying my remote sense voltage input wire should go from the alternator to the positive terminal on the battery? On this alternator the remote sense input and battery charge output are on the same stud, which doesn't make sense at first glance because it seems like it would only be sensing it's own output.

Need...more...coffee...

 

[DPV7070]

http://bob_skelly.home.comcast.net/~bob_skelly/alternator_conversion/wiring_alternator1.html

I think this clears up some of what I was asking...but, maybe not everything.

 

[bj40green]

From the link you posted above:

3-Wire Explained

Wire 2: Remote Voltage Sense Input
It is better to run the sense wire away from the alternator and over to the power terminal post near the battery. This will ensure that the system voltage is properly maintained.

This is the same explanation as the Toyota diagram that I posted.

Rudi

 

[DPV7070]

I'm trackin', but this alternator has 2 posts. One for a 12V switched source, and one for charging the battery.

I think I might just send this one back and use a GM 3 wire. I understand how that one should be hooked up.

 

[DPV7070]

To update everyone: I'm sending the "150A" unit back. It just doesn't look like a re-wound unit, but more like they pulled the rotor, stator, and housing, shot it with some paint, and installed a new VR. Live and learn. I'll eat the shipping, but you buy every lesson you learn as they say.

I will be interested to hear. I haven't worked on mine in 18 months but am flying home tomorrow and will be doing some electrical work while there. The AL80X is what came on the SAAB correct?

@addicted56: I think the alternator you're thinking about is the Bosch AL129X, which came on a 91-93 Saab 900S. It the 115amp variety and it should be a direct replacement. I'm going to have the local parts house pull a couple for me and if it's a 3 wire variety, i'll probably end up doing that. I figure 115A will cover any recharging duties that I've got for now.

 

[DPV7070]

So I sent the alternator back to Eagleautoelectric on fleabay. They guy was pretty douchey about it. I've decided to just go with the 65amp Bosch that I have in it now as I have too many other loose ends to clean up and need to focus on all completing tasks or I'll never get done.

I promise this isn't a blog...

 

[DPV7070]

Spent some time in the garage today:

- Fuel system is done, tank installed, fabricated hold downs work well. I put a gallon of fuel in. It's not sucking air as far as I can tell. Previous starting issues with he glow plugs turned out to be the wire I was using to manually glow them must not have had enough capacity because I glowed the system for 5 seconds and it lit off like a boss. It's the small things I tell ya!

- Manual shut off system installed and plumbed. It's a Swagelok ball valve system that some others have used that tees off of the brake booster vacuum line. Dumb luck that I galled the threads on one end of the valve (SS on SS and forgot teflon / anti seize) so it has a slow leak. It's perfect since the IP shutoff loses enough vacuum in about 10s for a restart. Score!

Pics to come.

It occurred to me that for the first time in 2 years, the Mule could drive under it's own power! I just wouldn't have any electrical, haha. As much as I want to drive it, I know that's how projects never get finished. So it sits.

 

[franklin40]

congrats. those are some big milestones. I can't wait to see your truck on the road. any pictures and description of your shut off system? maybe I missed it earlier.

 

[warpdriv]

this is what I'm going with for a fuel shut off

http://www.mercedesdiesel4x4.com/product_p/a-mb110.htm

 

[davegonz]

I used a small valve from McMaster. The only downside is that I have to pull the little button out sometimes due to the suction.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#62475k21/=x8kqxl

 

[DPV7070]

I used a small valve from McMaster. The only downside is that I have to pull the little button out sometimes due to the suction.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#62475k21/=x8kqxl

I saw that on Hamp and really like the way you mounted it. If I get tired of the Swagelok deal I'll try it. But this was pretty low cost for me.

 

[davegonz]

Yeah, we use Swagelok stuff at work and it's good stuff. I'd have gone that way too if I had an extra valve.

 

[DPV7070]

Alternator madness is over. I went with the Bosch AL 129X. It's rated at 115amps. Only bummer is it does NOT remote sense voltage, but it puts out a constant 14.2V according to a reputable rebuilder shop here.

Here's what swayed me in the Bosch direction instead of Delco Remy 10SI or 12SI:

It is a DIRECT BOLT IN for the OM617A. No modifications were made to the stock tensioner or mounting bracket. With standard OEM size, 1040mm I think, belts slipping them over the pulley was super tight, but it can be done. 1 banana job. 2 hours since I repainted the pulley, bracket and fan.

Cheapest I found was at O'Reilly Auto P/N 15651. $139.99 + $43.20. Ehhh, probably not Bosch reman quality, but it has a lifetime warranty so I'll rock it.

Ask for a 1992 Saab CD Turbo DOHC I4

Here's some pics of the process:

So here's the deal with wiring this baby. Large lug is the output, small lug needs 12V switched power with a 3W idiot light wired in series. Ground the case per usual.

It's a big son of a gun!

 

[franklin40]

so no voltage regulator? isn't that hard on a battery? I don't know enough about electrical systems yet to understand this. it's down the road of learning. it's a long road but one I'm headed down!!

 

[DPV7070]

so no voltage regulator? isn't that hard on a battery? I don't know enough about electrical systems yet to understand this. it's down the road of learning. it's a long road but one I'm headed down!!

It has an internal voltage regulator. You can see it in the first picture. It looks like a black quarter-sized object at the 2 o'clock position opposite the B+ lug. It's replaceable on these alternators. I'm buying another to carry as a spare in the glove box.

 

[franklin40]

so it's just either on or off then? maybe I'm not getting what you meant by "it does NOT remote sense voltage". I like it. I just want to understand it too!!

 

[DPV7070]

so it's just either on or off then? maybe I'm not getting what you meant by "it does NOT remote sense voltage". I like it. I just want to understand it too!!

Don't think of it as "on/off." Its just that if the system requires less than 14.2V, it just doesn't have to work as hard...

Some alternators, specifically the Delco-Remy 10si and 12si are capable of "sensing" the requirement to "up" the voltage in order to keep electronics operating in the 12-14V range. This is especially important when the battery or equipment is at a distance from the alternator. It's a better system than what this is, but I'm going to see how the AL129X works out. If things are getting dim, I'll go another route.

Read this, it's great stuff:

http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/remotevoltagesensing.shtml

 

[bj40green]

So here's the deal with wiring this baby. Large lug is the output, small lug needs 12V switched power with a 3W idiot light wired in series. Ground the case per usual.

The small lug with a 3W idiot is not only for powering the alternator. It's also tells the (internal) Voltage Regulator what the voltage in the truck is and regulates from there. The set point of this unit is 14.2 Volts. So it will keep the voltage at 14.2V at all times unless the draw is bigger then the capacity to charge in which case the voltage will drop a bit.

Rudi

 

[DPV7070]

The small lug with a 3W idiot is not only for powering the alternator. It's also tells the (internal) Voltage Regulator what the voltage in the truck is and regulates from there. The set point of this unit is 14.2 Volts. So it will keep the voltage at 14.2V at all times unless the draw is bigger then the capacity to charge in which case the voltage will drop a bit.

Rudi

Sage advice as always. You're the man Rudi!