"The Big Three" Electrical Upgrade (1 Viewer)

[jLB]

Back in the olden days it was a car stereo competition thing.

They used to have competition classes based on the advertised wattage of the amplifiers. So of course the manufacturers made what were informally known as cheaper amps - amps that had loosely regulated power sections that responded with significant power increases if the rails were given any additional voltage to work with.

As an example, I have an old 2-channel Pioneer Premier amp in the closet that was rated at an advertised 50 Watts per channel at 12 Volts with 0.08% THD across the whole 20-20KHz spectrum. Since the power section of the amps is loosely regulated it responds well to increases in supply voltage - my Premier amp was certified at 238 Watts per channel at 14.4V.

Having competed in the car stereo competitions in the "olden days" (mid eighties to early nineties). I ran a number of the old "cheater amps" and don't remember a single one that ran nearly 5 times the rated output (into the rated 4ohm per channel load) with simply a 2.4v increase. Yes, they were under rated, and of course we ran the huge power cables, but I remember the huge gains in the power output (4 to 5 times the rated output) being from running them into a much lower impedance than the traditional 4ohm per channel load.

 

[SNLC]

Good read in this thread.

I have been slightly bothered by my alts output voltage, it never really cracks 14.2v. I have thought about an upgrade but nothing wrong with mine so have just left it alone. I have also been wondering about grounds so good to hear a slight increase in voltage from upgrading the grounds.

I am not going to touch any of mine right now, leaving soon to drive to S. America but if I have any issues on the road I feel a little better about where to look and what to do.

By the way I have a National Luna dual battery set up and also relocated my winch control box to the same location as pictured.

Cheers

 

[dogdaysindurham]

So based on my alternator research, the oem voltage regulator is set at 14.2 volts. That’s what all the replacement units spec out at that I could find. I think some of the high output aftermarket alternators substitute a honda spec regulator that is set at a higher point of 14.5. These regulator have a similiar if not the same squarish plug and pinout. But Im not 100% certain that its a plug and play swap. I think in Oz a lot of the folks run a voltage booster diode to trick the regulator into running higher. I have one and can get my Voltage up to 14.4.

 

[2001LC]

This seem like a good thread to share something I just learned from a United Airline mechanic.

While on a flight to LA from Denver to buy The Black Knight (yes I name them) last week with my girlfriend, we got stuck in the very last row. She took window seat, while I the aisle thinking/hoping no one would take the center. Well, a guy 6'4" did, that couldn't get his knee to fit in, so I gave him my Knee space. We got to talking gear-head stuff the whole flight. He into diesel Mercedes and me into 100 series (what else). I gave you the above story, so you know where info comes from!

He told me in aircraft they have a tool that used to clean/grind under the ground/negative connection(s) on the air frame. They then add a dab of sealant to spot before bolting back on the the ground lead. They finish by cover assemble (Air frame, ground lead & bolt) with the sealant.

He said he's does same procedure on his car's. Cleans paint off from under leads on grounds and seals. He's helped friends do the same, which cleared up electrical issues they had. He said the paint between lead & body metal increases resistance.

I asked "what is this sealant", he gave me a the name of this special aircraft sealant, but said I did not need it, that I could just use silicone sealant. That as bolt tightens, sealant squeeze out making a good contact and a perfect seal around the lead end.

He went on to say; good idea to check resistance of cable (off the vehicle), comparing to new cable. That if I see corrosion near lead, you can bet it's into/around wire strands and lead. This will increase resistance and must be replaced.

Hope this is good info, I'm going to try it sometime!

 

[bluesquirrel]

This seem like a good thread to share something I just learned from a United Airline mechanic.

While on a flight to LA from Denver to buy The Black Knight (yes I name them) last week with my girlfriend, we got stuck in the very last row. She took window seat, while I the aisle thinking/hoping no one would take the center. Well, a guy 6'4" did, that couldn't get his knee to fit in, so I gave him my Knee space. We got to talking gear-head stuff the whole flight. He into diesel Mercedes and me into 100 series (what else). I gave you the above story, so you know where info comes from!

He told me in aircraft they have a tool that used to clean/grind under the ground/negative connection(s) on the air frame. They then add a dab of sealant to spot before bolting back on the the ground lead. They finish by cover assemble (Air frame, ground lead & bolt) with the sealant.

He said he's does same procedure on his car's. Cleans paint off from under leads on grounds and seals. He's helped friends do the same, which cleared up electrical issues they had. He said the paint between lead & body metal increases resistance.

I asked "what is this sealant", he gave me a the name of this special aircraft sealant, but said I did not need it, that I could just use silicone sealant. That as bolt tightens, sealant squeeze out making a good contact and a perfect seal around the lead end.

He went on to say; good idea to check resistance of cable (off the vehicle), comparing to new cable. That if I see corrosion near lead, you can bet it's into/around wire strands and lead. This will increase resistance and must be replaced.

Hope this is good info, I'm going to try it sometime!


View attachment 1631611

I used to be in the industry and that's exactly how I do my grounds. You can find the tools on Amazon or aviation supply companies. My browser won't let me add the link for some reason. They're called "piloted bonding brush".

 

[2001LC]

Nice tool, thanks for sharing @bluesquirrel . BTW; Do you know what the sealer used on aircraft grounds is called?
The A&P mechanic said we can just use silicone but I'd feel better using an aircraft approved sealer.

 

[abuck99]

Maybe try the same NOCO sealer for the battery terminals.

 

[jerryb]

search this

non corrosive neutral curing electronics grade silicone and rtv

 

[2001LC]

Maybe try the same NOCO sealer for the battery terminals.

View attachment 1660625

Thanks, I need to pick-up a can one of these days. But not sure that would seal like the A&P stuff.

search this

non corrosive neutral curing electronics grade silicone and rtv

Good suggestion. I tried: "Silicone RTVs for Aerospace and Aviation" came up with some PDF's that list dozen of sealer, depending on application.

 

[bluesquirrel]

Nice tool, thanks for sharing @bluesquirrel . BTW; Do you know what the sealer used on aircraft grounds is called?
The A&P mechanic said we can just use silicone but I'd feel better using an aircraft approved sealer.

It was PR 1428 or PR 1440, I believe.
Good stuff, but black silicone is just as good. Also cheaper.
*Edit
PR 1428 dried quick. Like 15 minutes..
PR 1440 took longer. Both were a two-part mix

 

[dogdaysindurham]

Thanks @TheForger for starting this thread. I just did my big three this weekend and netted about 0.2 volts.

BTW the engine and frame grounding bolts are M6 x 1.00 pitch about 12-15 mm in length. I replaced the factory ones with some shiny stainless steel ones after using a M6x1.00 tap to clean up the threads and after I wire wheeled a 1/2" diameter patch to the grounding areas. I used 4 AWG stranded tinned marine wire from Marine Wiring, Boat Cable and Electrical Genuinedealz.com and was extremely happy with it. I got tinned lugs from a US based ebay seller (will update with a link to there store). If folks have upgraded to the slee size 31M tray or not use the factory battery hold down for whatever reason, I believe that bolt could be used as a grounding point and is thread for M8x1.25.

I still need to do the alternator to positive battery terminal in the future and found this neat fuse block from Blue Sea that I will likely use for this application MRBF Terminal Fuse Block - 30 to 300A - Blue Sea Systems It should work nicely with the military style battery terminals and they even have a 2 fuse set up for accessory fusing. Dual MRBF Terminal Fuse Block - 30 to 300A - Blue Sea Systems .

 

[bluesquirrel]

Couldn't get to the engine grounds, but changed the negative battery terminal, and replaced the positive connector and the fusible link. Here's the old parts. Nasty...

 

[RootMeanSqr]

Do you happen to know what gauge the ground cable is that runs to the back of the engine?

 

[hankinid]

Do you happen to know what gauge the ground cable is that runs to the back of the engine?

Looks to be between 16 and 14 awg...metric. I'd probably go with 14.

 

[TheForger]

Couldn't get to the engine grounds, but changed the negative battery terminal, and replaced the positive connector and the fusible link. Here's the old parts. Nasty...
View attachment 1815106

Nice! Looks like they needed replacing pretty badly. For the sake of the forum and all things detailed, would you mind posting part numbers and/or links to the products you replaced?

Do you happen to know what gauge the ground cable is that runs to the back of the engine?

@hankinid is correct, the ground closest to the fire wall was 14ga on my truck. I was wondering the same and the only thing I had to measure with were a pair of wire strippers - the 14ga slot in them stripped the wire perfectly.

 

[RootMeanSqr]

Not sure we are talking about the same grounds. I'm talking about the one from the battery to the engine, the one in the picture above that is cut right at the battery terminal. I want to put a new lug on it and new clamp. If I had to guess, I would say it's closer to 8 awg, but want to be sure I've got the right sized lug before I start cutting cables.

 

[TheForger]

Not sure we are talking about the same grounds. I'm talking about the one from the battery to the engine, the one in the picture above that is cut right at the battery terminal. I want to put a new lug on it and new clamp. If I had to guess, I would say it's closer to 8 awg, but want to be sure I've got the right sized lug before I start cutting cables.

My apologizes I was referring to a different wire. Not too sure about the size of that one

 

[Ayune]

Did two of my three today using 4 GA wire and crimped copper lugs.

 

[boodah24]

Good job
I'm looking forward to doing this soon also.
Mainly interested in the alternator to battery positive cable measurement.

 

[jerryb]

80" is a good start. (if you're ordering a 25' foot section) 2006 is 80-+1