The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread

[boosted105]

hey mate thanks for the advice I thought there might be a bit more to it.

He is doing lobster back welds to get the 4 inch 90 in the engine bay, I will have to ask him how he is going to transition it.
I figured I might as well go 4 inch whilst I am getting it all done as a common mod for the high power td42s is to go a 3.5 inch dump.

It will stay 4 inch for about 1 meter until it meets the chassis to ensure its thicker for as long as possible. Would you say overall this would be better than a 3 inch dump considering the boost and fuel I plan to run?

 

[gerg]

Why spend so much time creating a bend that will flow so poorly? Get some tight radius 90 degree stainless tubing. It's not expensive and is strangely thick walled and is not hard to weld. Your flow will be greatly improved and you can spend your time elsewhere. Seriously, I love making cool stuff too but if your going to do it it either has to be better flowing or incredibly cheaper than what you can buy off the shelf. eBay is just too easy, and yes its non magnetic and yes I've used tons of it.

3” Ultra Tight Radius Mandrel Bend 90 Degree 304 Stainless Steel 0.84D Exhaust | eBay

Cheers
G

 

[boosted105]

Why spend so much time creating a bend that will flow so poorly? Get some tight radius 90 degree stainless tubing. It's not expensive and is strangely thick walled and is not hard to weld. Your flow will be greatly improved and you can spend your time elsewhere. Seriously, I love making cool stuff too but if your going to do it it either has to be better flowing or incredibly cheaper than what you can buy off the shelf. eBay is just too easy, and yes its non magnetic and yes I've used tons of it.

3” Ultra Tight Radius Mandrel Bend 90 Degree 304 Stainless Steel 0.84D Exhaust | eBay

Cheers
G

Thanks for the advice, I will let you know what I end up going with, I plan on having the car running and on a dyno (hopefully) in the next 2 weeks. Still waiting on turbo to come back to me.

Will post results once its done.

 

[DarkHorse1HDT]

Is the CT20B on the Gen3 3SGTE MR2 the same as the FTE?

CT20B Turbo Mr2 | eBay

Worthwhile, reasonably low-hassle upgrade?

 

[gerg]

After some casual searching It appears to be very much the same dimentions of a td05 16g. I'd say it would be an upgrade except I can't find info on the turbine housing size as usual. It would be a gamble in that department unfortunately. Also, I certainly wouldn't push the boost hard on a non 360 degree thrust bearing turbo, especially a used one. id say buy it and set it up with the idea that it won't work. Then if it does you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Wildnlost]

After some casual searching It appears to be very much the same dimentions of a td05 16g. I'd say it would be an upgrade except I can't find info on the turbine housing size as usual. It would be a gamble in that department unfortunately. Also, I certainly wouldn't push the boost hard on a non 360 degree thrust bearing turbo, especially a used one. id say buy it and set it up with the idea that it won't work. Then if it does you will be pleasantly surprised.

Is the CT20B on the Gen3 3SGTE MR2 the same as the FTE?

CT20B Turbo Mr2 | eBay

Worthwhile, reasonably low-hassle upgrade?

With the sizing @gerg has posted I would agree as well it would be a positive upgrade. I am running a Mamba td05- 18g 7cm . The smaller compressor size of Ct20B would boost sooner and if it makes 20psi you would be happy.
When you say low hassle upgrade have you considered the required fabrication. Even though my Mamba was "bolt on" it required some fabrication to make it work. It was worth all time to get the turbo on and tuned, I would never go back to stock now.

 

[GooSe77]

Is the CT20B on the Gen3 3SGTE MR2 the same as the FTE?

CT20B Turbo Mr2 | eBay

Worthwhile, reasonably low-hassle upgrade?

I thougt the HDFTE was a CT12b ? It would have a tourbinehousing with 6cm .....

 

[DarkHorse1HDT]

I thougt the HDFTE was a CT12b ? It would have a tourbinehousing with 6cm .....

I'll readily admit to still being very confused by the CT12(B)/20(B)/26(B/small) nomenclature and applications.

The Mellet catalogue lists:

• CT26 small (also known as CT20B) for a 98+ Landcruiser./94-96 Celica - 59.8ind/48exd turbine, and a 46.8/65 compressor.
• 
  
• CT12B for 3.0L, 4cyl Landcruisers (???)/Hiace/4Runner - 52/44 turbine, 43/58 compressor
• 
  
• CT26 for Landcruiser/Supra/MR2/Celica - 67/51 turbine, 42/65 compressor (except for 87-88 Supra which is 45.5/65 and a different turbine housing)

Without wanting to drag this very techy thread down to my dunce level... the CT20B has a smaller turbine (faster spool) and larger inducer on the compressor (more air per shaft rev.)

The CT12B has a smaller turbine but also a smaller compressor, so quick spool but not as much blow.




All that of course completely neglects housing size (and compatability, flanges etc) let alone the combined effect (A/R)

 

[gerg]

Toyota has almost no information out there about there turbos compared to other manufacturers with little aftermarket support. Short of buy each one and measuring them good luck finding housing sizes. I like Toyota don't get me wrong, but as far as turbos go it's a dead end.

 

[DarkHorse1HDT]

After some casual searching It appears to be very much the same dimentions of a td05 16g. I'd say it would be an upgrade except I can't find info on the turbine housing size as usual. It would be a gamble in that department unfortunately. Also, I certainly wouldn't push the boost hard on a non 360 degree thrust bearing turbo, especially a used one. id say buy it and set it up with the idea that it won't work. Then if it does you will be pleasantly surprised.

If I had the cash to spend on a gamble I'd be happy to, but I really don't at the moment.

EDIT: There are rebuild kits for CT20B with upgraded 360deg thrust washers:
Turbo Repair Kit Includes 360 degree thrust bearing | Fensport Performance

Define "push too hard"? I've sort of started thinking 20psi/200hp has a nice ring to it, but I haven't really thought that through. I'd like to safely get what I can out of it without getting to internals.

With the sizing @gerg has posted I would agree as well it would be a positive upgrade. I am running a Mamba td05- 18g 7cm . The smaller compressor size of Ct20B would boost sooner and if it makes 20psi you would be happy.
When you say low hassle upgrade have you considered the required fabrication. Even though my Mamba was "bolt on" it required some fabrication to make it work. It was worth all time to get the turbo on and tuned, I would never go back to stock now.

With decent response and quick spool I would be absolutely happy with 20psi from an OEM turbo that doesn't cost me $2k.

I have considered, and avoiding building a manifold is one reason I am looking at stock CTs as first options. I can weld, so can fab a dump if required, and will probably make my own 3" exhaust system anyway. I will be intercooling so air plumbing will all be custom, and I can do whatever I need to for the intake. Oil and water feeds I haven't looked at in depth, so they will sort of be a 'cross that bridge when I come to it' kind of thing.

 

[DarkHorse1HDT]

Toyota has almost no information out there about there turbos compared to other manufacturers with little aftermarket support. Short of buy each one and measuring them good luck finding housing sizes. I like Toyota don't get me wrong, but as far as turbos go it's a dead end.

So I'd be better off just looking for a TD05 16G and adapting?

 

[boosted105]

So I'd be better off just looking for a TD05 16G and adapting?

Hit up luke from MMP turbos, that's where I got my TD05-20g from and I cant fault it. He also does high flow CT26 options for bolt on upgrades. If you are looking for around 200hp or upwards I would be going an 18g with 8cm rear otherwise the 16g will choke you up top.

 

[Wildnlost]

So I'd be better off just looking for a TD05 16G and adapting?

Or you could use a hybrid..... my Mamba uses the CT26 -17020 exhaust housing (7cm) casting but machined to fit td05h CHRA. So a "bolt on" td05 - 16g, 18g, or 20g. Dont option for the 9 blade turbine go 12. I use an 11blade 18g compressor. Starts boosting 1600rpm. 24 psi before 2000rpm. Paid 1063.00 Canadian. It bolts on but some fabrication needed. Currently 20,000plus kilo snf running strong.

 

[DarkHorse1HDT]

Or you could use a hybrid..... my Mamba uses the CT26 -17020 exhaust housing (7cm) casting but machined to fit td05h CHRA. So a "bolt on" td05 - 16g, 18g, or 20g. Dont option for the 9 blade turbine go 12. I use an 11blade 18g compressor. Starts boosting 1600rpm. 24 psi before 2000rpm. Paid 1063.00 Canadian. It bolts on but some fabrication needed. Currently 20,000plus kilo snf running strong.

Can't really be both...

I can weld and build stuff, but I don't have access to a lathe or that sort of precision tooling. More of a blunt instrument kind of guy, so that would be an extra cost. They seem to run about $1200 AUD as a start.

Hit up luke from MMP turbos, that's where I got my TD05-20g from and I cant fault it. He also does high flow CT26 options for bolt on upgrades. If you are looking for around 200hp or upwards I would be going an 18g with 8cm rear otherwise the 16g will choke you up top.

If I had to choose between spool speed and top end I wouldn't think twice about foregoing 200HP. It's just a number, and one that I would rarely make use of.

I'm not really in the retail market for a custom assembled brand new unit, I just don't have the budget. If I can find something suitable used and in good nick I can rebuild and get it re-balanced.

Found a Kinugawa TD05H 16G locally that has been running on a TD42 for about 10,000km:

• Turbine wheel = 49.2/56 12 blade
• Turbine housing = 8cm, A/R 57
• Compressor wheel = 48.3/68, 6+6 cast
• Compressor housing = A/R 60, 3" in, 2" out
• Journal bearing, oil cooled only, 1 bar wastegate spring
• Max boost 40psi, suggested 21psi, 300-450HP max

Too big?

Thankyou all for indulging my tyre kicking, it's much appreciated.

 

[Wildnlost]

Can't really be both...

I can weld and build stuff, but I don't have access to a lathe or that sort of precision tooling. More of a blunt instrument kind of guy, so that would be an extra cost. They seem to run about $1200 AUD as a start.





If I had to choose between spool speed and top end I wouldn't think twice about foregoing 200HP. It's just a number, and one that I would rarely make use of.

I'm not really in the retail market for a custom assembled brand new unit, I just don't have the budget. If I can find something suitable used and in good nick I can rebuild and get it re-balanced.

Found a Kinugawa TD05H 16G locally that has been running on a TD42 for about 10,000km:

• Turbine wheel = 49.2/56 12 blade
• Turbine housing = 8cm, A/R 57
• Compressor wheel = 48.3/68, 6+6 cast
• Compressor housing = A/R 60, 3" in, 2" out
• Journal bearing, oil cooled only, 1 bar wastegate spring
• Max boost 40psi, suggested 21psi, 300-450HP max

Too big?

Thankyou all for indulging my tyre kicking, it's much appreciated.

Sorry for the confusion. Mamba builds the hybrid I am referring too. It already has a toyota housing fitted to a TD05h CHRA, so it bolts on to the stock Toyota exhaust manifold and exhaust system. No machining although there is a bit of fiddling with coolent lines. I had posted awhile back the install process for this turbo about post #863 in this thread. As you will see I am a blunt instrument as well. Crude maybe a better word, but effective. I am sensitive to cost as well so I fabbed my own IC and exhaust and porting and.....you get the picture cheers. Fun times for sure.

 

[DarkHorse1HDT]

Sorry for the confusion. Mamba builds the hybrid I am referring too. It already has a toyota housing fitted to a TD05h CHRA, so it bolts on to the stock Toyota exhaust manifold and exhaust system. No machining although there is a bit of fiddling with coolent lines. I had posted awhile back the install process for this turbo about post #863 in this thread. As you will see I am a blunt instrument as well. Crude maybe a better word, but effective. I am sensitive to cost as well so I fabbed my own IC and exhaust and porting and.....you get the picture cheers. Fun times for sure.

View attachment 1752137

Oh I see. Sorry about that. I am easily confused when it comes to this stuff!
$1200 is out of range at the moment, but good to know for the future. Thankyou!

 

[gerg]

1200$ for a turbo that works is a good deal.

 

[mudgudgeon]

If I had the cash to spend on a gamble I'd be happy to, but I really don't at the moment.

EDIT: There are rebuild kits for CT20B with upgraded 360deg thrust washers:
Turbo Repair Kit Includes 360 degree thrust bearing | Fensport Performance

Define "push too hard"? I've sort of started thinking 20psi/200hp has a nice ring to it, but I haven't really thought that through. I'd like to safely get what I can out of it without getting to internals.



With decent response and quick spool I would be absolutely happy with 20psi from an OEM turbo that doesn't cost me $2k.

I have considered, and avoiding building a manifold is one reason I am looking at stock CTs as first options. I can weld, so can fab a dump if required, and will probably make my own 3" exhaust system anyway. I will be intercooling so air plumbing will all be custom, and I can do whatever I need to for the intake. Oil and water feeds I haven't looked at in depth, so they will sort of be a 'cross that bridge when I come to it' kind of thing.

Have a read here to answer some of your questions. This is my low budget (sort of) solution for a performance upgrade using OEM turbo with known capability and reliability. I used a stock 1HD-FTE turbo

Rolling the dice - slow moving turbo HZJ105 project


There's a fair bit of info kicking about on these, no maps, and not many published specs, but they are fairly well understood.

You can pick these up for a few hundred $AUD in good used condition.

 

[boosted105]

Does anyone happen to have a map for a td05-20g?

I want to see at what boost it becomes inefficient. Much appreciated thanks,

 

[gerg]

Its not when it becomes inefficient for the 20G its more of a concern if its going to surge in the lower rpms. I personally feel it will surge put on a combo like wildnlost has and its an unimpressive compressor.