The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread

[IanB]

I'm clueless to bear with me, but in what areas of the RPM range is it different? Slower to get on the boost? Less top-end?

Also, in which areas is a 7MGTE superior to a factory CT26?

From the reading I've done and dyno graphs I've seen, the G-turbo comes into boost earlier, and runs out much later, making bigger power everywhere in-between, and makes 28+psi.

The 7MGTE CT26 I think really only handles higher boost than the stock trim, I don't believe it makes boost any earlier.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I'm clueless so bear with me, but in what areas of the RPM range is it different? Slower to get on the boost? Less top-end?

Also, in which areas is a 7MGTE superior to a factory CT26?

Did you read the full thread?

7mgte hybrid option has been discussed quite a bit on mud.

It uses your stock turbine and turbine housing but uses 7mgte compressor and compressor housing, with very minor mods needed to comp housing and waste gate actuator. Otherwise it's a bolt in mod using factory parts.

It will boost at more or less the same rpm as stock, but is a modest high flow upgrade. It pumps a greater air volume at any given RPM.
More air = capacity to burn more fuel
More fuel burnt = more thermal energy to drive a turbo to pump more air.
More air = . . .
By now you've got the picture?

More air flow at a given rpm also helps keep combustion temps lower so EGT should be lower

The 7mgte hybrid is able to run more boost to higher engine rpm, so instead of boost peaking around 3000rpm and dropping away, it will hold boost a little longer.

The stock turbo is suspect above 15psi and chokes at mid - high range rpm if you run it at higher than 15psi.
Choke the turbo and they go pop! Quite literally! Mine went pop at around 18-20 psi and 3000 rpm, it sounded like a balloon popping. Engine copped a gut-full of shrapnel and needed a rebuild

Sound good? It's a worthwhile upgrade if you can source the parts cheaply and can do it yourself. If you were going to pay anyone to do it, you'd cough up for a gturbo, no question.

Gerg has posted some interesting suggestions, but you'd need to fabricate manifolds or adapters and intake piping for untested combo's. Makes experimenting less attractive.

Messaged Karter today, and basically the stronger USD has killed his option off.

 

[ForealBoreal]

I'll throw in my stance on things currently ranging a few options:

Using all Toyota Parts:

1) Smaller turbine housing if you don't have that already or you want the larger turbine housing to allow for more boost above the 2k RPM point (yes you sacrifice a little bit of down low)
2) Supra (7mgte) compressor upgrade
3) Supra comp upgrade + smaller turbine housings (58020 housing)
4) Supra comp upgrade + CT20 turbine wheel and housing

44mm/60mm turbine size for CT20 (6.5mm bore size) This will bolt up to CT2* turbos.....

Each would yield different results depending on the goal.

My goal was to do two turbos though the USD I think at this point is killing my possibility at doing a run merely for the fact I would have to shell out a wack of money that I really don't want to have to sit on product. I would rather buy something at this point as priorities have shifted and I have a lack of time with my career choice. I am choosing to focus on other areas than selling turbos as a side hobby.

I have inquired about getting two custom turbos made to my specs.

The goal turbos are and discussed in my earlier posts:

1) A Big 16G Billet compressor wheel (exactly like the one I supplied in my compressor kits) mated to a customized TD05H turbine wheel (yes a stock TD05H will not just fit into a CT2* CHRA as the shaft sizes are different) Essentially a TD05H Big 16G in a CT2* CHRA and a 58020 (small) turbine housing. There is you're Grunter Extreme. The TD05H is proven in the Patrol world. The small turbine housing creates a really low end RPM boosting turbo. Hence the "Grunter" name.

2) 18G billet compressor wheel (very close to my custom wheel), same turbine wheel, same CHRA except the larger 17020 turbine housing.
This basically creates the later boosting higher RPM that the "Badboy" series turbo. AKA its just a TD05H 18G in a CT2* CHRA.

I'm at the point where I want the TD05H 18G or as the land cruiser world would like to call the "Badboy".
the 16G for me has too much backpressure cruising down the highway at 100km/h. My trucks cruising at 12lbs boost right now with the Supra wheel and CT20 hot side. The new GX isn't much better as its still 2 more blades on the turbine size creating a large amount of back pressure and still small turbine housing coupled with a slightly larger wheel.

I want the lowest amount of back pressure cruising down a flat highway. Thats my personal .02 cents.

 

[ForealBoreal]

From the reading I've done and dyno graphs I've seen, the G-turbo comes into boost earlier, and runs out much later, making bigger power everywhere in-between, and makes 28+psi.

The 7MGTE CT26 I think really only handles higher boost than the stock trim, I don't believe it makes boost any earlier.

Its a bigger wheel which means its more efficient because it pushes more air with the same amount of turbine pressure. You are essentially creating a bigger fan force feeding the engine. So yes its does boost earlier than stock. A lot of that has to do with how your pump is tuned on how your turbo will respond.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

I want the lowest amount of back pressure cruising down a flat highway. Thats my personal .02 cents.

Great comments Foreal. I really like how you have acknowledged the drawbacks of too small a turbine/housing. I think back pressure is not good, and a lot of people keep forgetting that. The CT20 turbine is considered overly large for my (2.4) engine, but personally I like it. I like knowing that there is low back pressure, especially as I have to rev that engine beyond 3000 to get into the upper part of my power band (for towing up a big hill for example).

Nice to know a bit more about the Gturbo packages too. I think you've nailed it. I'm tempted now to play around with a more efficient TD04 compressor in my CT20... Friend of mine who just bought a HDJ81 is doing the Supra CT26 compressor upgrade. But instead of using the Supra compressor housing, he's having the 1HDT CT26 compressor housing bored out on a CNC lathe to match the Supra compressor size. Will look completely factory on the outside.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Great comments ForealBoreal.

It's great to have some info on tried and tested options people have used.

I'm going to continue with me 1hd-t /7mgte hybrid. Sounds like Ct20 hot side won't suit my needs either.

 

[mudgudgeon]

@ForealBoreal, are you able to give us the sizes of the various CT2* turbine housings in cm?

I'm guessing 7mgte is about 8cm2 ?
1hd-t maybe 7 cm2 ?
And ct20 6 cm2 ?

 

[ForealBoreal]

Great comments Foreal. I really like how you have acknowledged the drawbacks of too small a turbine/housing. I think back pressure is not good, and a lot of people keep forgetting that. The CT20 turbine is considered overly large for my (2.4) engine, but personally I like it. I like knowing that there is low back pressure, especially as I have to rev that engine beyond 3000 to get into the upper part of my power band (for towing up a big hill for example).

Nice to know a bit more about the Gturbo packages too. I think you've nailed it. I'm tempted now to play around with a more efficient TD04 compressor in my CT20... Friend of mine who just bought a HDJ81 is doing the Supra CT26 compressor upgrade. But instead of using the Supra compressor housing, he's having the 1HDT CT26 compressor housing bored out on a CNC lathe to match the Supra compressor size. Will look completely factory on the outside.

Yeah there is a trade off with everything. At least for me I have truly realized my turbo goals and the Big 16G route at least set up like a GX is not for my driving style. The 18G is far better suited for long distance touring at higher speeds. Its still instant on the throttle in terms of full boost.

My big thing is I do not want to screw with adaptors and redo my coolant/oil lines. Bolt up is worth it in my eyes as it simplifies things. There are options for the truck out there set up with CT26 turbine housings attached to MHI centers available on ebay marketed towards our trucks. Yeah they come with everything you need to fit it but I want the same CHRA.

You're buddy will like the Supra comp with the turbine housing I supplied. It will work well for him and I don't think its going to screw with his top end a whole lot. He will notice it if he had the larger turbine housing before.

Great comments ForealBoreal.

It's great to have some info on tried and tested options people have used.

I'm going to continue with me 1hd-t /7mgte hybrid. Sounds like Ct20 hot side won't suit my needs either.

I get the vibe you want a touring rig. What do you have right now for a truck and engine again? The FTE came with the supra cold side as I understand.

@ForealBoreal, are you able to give us the sizes of the various CT2* turbine housings in cm?

I'm guessing 7mgte is about 8cm2 ?
1hd-t maybe 7 cm2 ?
And ct20 6 cm2 ?

I don't have the numbers. Haven't even taken the time or effort to measure them. I'm basing it off what I have heard on the internet.
The housing I have and I am trying to sell is 6-7cm i believe while the 17020 like i showed earlier is 8cm. I believe the supra hot side is bigger than that still.....

 

[mudgudgeon]

Cool. Wasn't sure if you'd know. I know it was discussed at some point here.

Yeah, more interested in turbo being suited to touring. I have a hzj105, its a daily driver and now mostly does long commutes and longish touring with a bit of time off the beaten track. It's been wheeled hard in the past, but not in ages.

It will be getting a 1hd-t/7mgte hybrid, factory 1hd-t turbo manifold, 4" S/S dump into 3" S/S straight through exhaust with two big ass full flow mufflers, 24*12*3" front mount intercooler, custom intake plenum and 3" S/S snorkel, possibility IP work in the future.
Tune will be focused on low EGTs and safe AFRs.

Hybrid will bring the old 1hzzzzzzz alive just fine, need to be a bit restrained, the 105s have a couple of weaknesses, but always curious about other options on a tight ass budget .
Having said that, I've collected a bunch of quality parts, will keep cost down by doing everything myself

 

[ForealBoreal]

Go 4" on the snorkel with a ram head, Panel filter airbox.
I will say right now upgrading you're pump won't yield stock fuel economy by any means.

 

[Rob1983]

my upgraded 12mm pump returns 13L/100km fully loaded, lifted on big tyres

 

[ForealBoreal]

Direct injection..... Indirect will get worse.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Yeah, not bothered by economy, I didn't buy a landcruiser for economy . Anyone who shells out money turboing a car for better economy has rocks in there head.

Is 4" snorkel really warranted? Will 3" be a restriction?

 

[ForealBoreal]

I think 4" is the standard if you are planning on cranking some power out of the 1HZ.
More air the better I figure. Wish I had better access to a mandrel bender....

 

[CycloSteve]

I would love to see a 4" mandrel bent snorkel that used the Safari mount pattern. I would pay $ for such a solution.

 

[ForealBoreal]

I thought some people would find this interesting. I have said in the past that i believe some manufacturers make errors for the correct casting numbers:







In the case of the Mamba turbos

7cm housing (.49 AR)
8cm housing (.64 AR)

The funny thing is the last few turbine housings I have bought from the one manufacturer definately used the 7cm housing if comparing to the mamba turbos and the factory 1hd-ft turbine housing. Though their numbers are backwards comparing to the two housings I have.

I'm contacting a few people about building me a one off.
I am going to see if I can get a manufacturer laid down and people can buy direct.

 

[tweeek]

Where exactly is the 7 or 8 cm measurement taken?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Where exactly is the 7 or 8 cm measurement taken?

Borrowed from garrett

The 7 cm or 8 cm is the area of the red circle.
A/R is the ratio of the red circle area compared to the white circle area (impellor outer diameter area)

 

[mudgudgeon]

@ForealBoreal, any experience with the mamba product?

Good? Bad? Indifferent?

Looks respectably finished, as much as you can tell from pics on the net

 

[ForealBoreal]

@mudgudgeon,

I have zero experience with them. Eiji (the owner) sold Kinugawa from what I have read on the Patrol Forums and opened this up.

If I am going to buy anything like this for future use I would pay to have to have it verified (balancing checked).

I'll most likely be using a different company. I'll share info if I can get the ball rolling here.