I have a 2000 Land Cruiser installed a lift and would like to install some longer sway bar links both front and rear. Have searched every where cant not find anything. Have any Ideas
Sway bar links (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jeremy16
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Trail Tailor sells extended end links for the 100.
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
Second this... will be investing in some myself later this year.
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dogdaysindurham
SILVER Star
I have mine from TT and would highly recommend. They worked quite well paired with the tough dog suspension kit that Jason also offers.
If you have a 4" lift, Wits-End has longer links available too: 80/100 Series Heavy Duty Rear Extended Swaybar Links
If you have a 4" lift, Wits-End has longer links available too: 80/100 Series Heavy Duty Rear Extended Swaybar Links
Why? There is arguably no difference in performance between the extended vs oem.
hoser
SILVER Star
Don't make me break out my machine design book and work this out. Your image is correct, but you aren't considering the system level mechanics. Also, if we were talking super stiff street racing torsion bars, it'd be a different story. Our bars are designed to allow for some articulation.
The torsion bar doesn't care what it's starting orientation is, (flat with extended links, slightly inclined with factory links) it cares about the relative deflection side to side (how it counters body roll). Longer links, shorter links, makes no difference in the torsion bars behavior. Load in ~ load out. When they are doing their job, the link is not often perpendicular to the arm, so the loading on the link itself is higher (see your image)... but so is the load put on the other link.
Another thing to note, the typical lifts folks are installing don't drastically increase the full droop of the rear axle, so the maximum displacement (full bump one side, full droop other side) isn't going to be much different than factory limits (what it the torsion bar was designed to see). And even so, the links themselves aren't going to change this.
But for discussions sake... What are you claiming to improve with the longer links? are you arguing that the lower deflection on flat ground will make bushings last longer? That I'd agree with but
The reported gains of running the extended links are arguablly marginal at best, which supports my claim of marginal difference.
No one has a 4" lifted 100 unless they SAS'd it. Or it's a 105.
Now following this thread because I'm on the fence about extended links as well.
I've not seen a comparison between factory and extended arms that didn't also include new bushings. I'm convinced that the improvement claims are coming from the bushing refresh and have nothing to do with the extended links. But, that's my opinion and people claim I am a contrarian
Don't make me break out my machine design book and work this out. Your image is correct, but you aren't considering the system level mechanics. Also, if we were talking super stiff street racing torsion bars, it'd be a different story. Our bars are designed to allow for some articulation.
The torsion bar doesn't care what it's starting orientation is, (flat with extended links, slightly inclined with factory links) it cares about the relative deflection side to side (how it counters body roll). Longer links, shorter links, makes no difference in the torsion bars behavior. Load in ~ load out. When they are doing their job, the link is not often perpendicular to the arm, so the loading on the link itself is higher (see your image)... but so is the load put on the other link.
Another thing to note, the typical lifts folks are installing don't drastically increase the full droop of the rear axle, so the maximum displacement (full bump one side, full droop other side) isn't going to be much different than factory limits (what it the torsion bar was designed to see). And even so, the links themselves aren't going to change this.
But for discussions sake... What are you claiming to improve with the longer links? are you arguing that the lower deflection on flat ground will make bushings last longer? That I'd agree with but
The reported gains of running the extended links are arguably marginal at best, which supports my claim of marginal difference.
I have to say that I 100% agree with this, and was going to start a thread on the same topic.
The sway bar is in its essence a torsion bar. In a lift, you move both sides up equally, therefore no torque applied.
if you disconnect both links, the sway bar arcs freely in place, forces will be applied equally to it whether the links are 3 inches, or 5 inches long, it makes no difference to the torsion bar.
As far as I can see it, the ONLY benefit of an extended link is to prevent wear on the frame mount bushings ($6 worth of parts).
Don't make me break out my machine design book and work this out. Your image is correct, but you aren't considering the system level mechanics. Also, if we were talking super stiff street racing torsion bars, it'd be a different story. Our bars are designed to allow for some articulation.
The torsion bar doesn't care what it's starting orientation is, (flat with extended links, slightly inclined with factory links) it cares about the relative deflection side to side (how it counters body roll). Longer links, shorter links, makes no difference in the torsion bars behavior. Load in ~ load out. When they are doing their job, the link is not often perpendicular to the arm, so the loading on the link itself is higher (see your image)... but so is the load put on the other link.
Another thing to note, the typical lifts folks are installing don't drastically increase the full droop of the rear axle, so the maximum displacement (full bump one side, full droop other side) isn't going to be much different than factory limits (what it the torsion bar was designed to see). And even so, the links themselves aren't going to change this.
But for discussions sake... What are you claiming to improve with the longer links? are you arguing that the lower deflection on flat ground will make bushings last longer? That I'd agree with but
The reported gains of running the extended links are arguablly marginal at best, which supports my claim of marginal difference.
This makes sense.
I’m curious if you could elaborate on the stiff racing/street torsion bars comment. The argument I’ve seen on other car forums for adjustable length end links is that you want to get your sway bars oriented as perpendicular to the ground as possible to mimic stock geometry.
Wrong. The math is still relevant. The relationship of vertical displacement of the arms for a given amount of suspension 'flex' is linear. The degrees of twist on the sway bar for a given amount of vertical displacement is a function of the initial position of the sway bar, which can be altered with link length.
Exactly. When the arms are perpendicular, the cross spring rate is lower than when they are not perpendicular. Bluntly, the sway bar spring rate is lowest when the arms are perpendicular to the suspension travel arc
I totally agree that it's probably marginal in effect for the situations we are talking about here.
Racing/street cars don't have or need the suspension articulation, the relative displacements of one side vs the other side is going to be much much smaller than what we have on our cruisers. They have much much stiffer torsion bars to counter act the small displacements and make the cars stay flat through corners (Force = Displacement * Stiffness)... the range that they experience is going to be smaller, and closer to that flat "no roll" position and the end links life is going to be spent much closer to the happy perpendicular position. Plus, race car people are all about precision and they want all the marginal improvements they can get. We have big wiggly heavy rigs that go nowhere fast.
That's the thing though, the displacement of that joint (where the end link attaches to the sway bar) is not linear. It travels along a circular path, with it's center at the torsion bar bushing. The angle between the end link and the arm varies as the suspension flexes. Changing the link length, on both sides, isn't going to alter the relative angular displacement of the torsion bar (which gives it the loading).
Our rigs are big and wiggly anyways, a lot of folks just ditch the torsion bars and embrace it
I edited my previous post. The link length will alter the initial angular position of the bar, meaning that the relative cross spring rate is going to be different at different positionsRacing/street cars don't have or need the suspension articulation, the relative displacements of one side vs the other side is going to be much much smaller than what we have on our cruisers. They have much much stiffer torsion bars to counter act the small displacements and make the cars stay flat through corners (Force = Displacement * Stiffness)... the range that they experience is going to be smaller, and closer to that flat "no roll" position and the end links life is going to be spent much closer to the happy perpendicular position. Plus, race car people are all about precision and they want all the marginal improvements they can get. We have big wiggly heavy rigs that go nowhere fast.
That's the thing though, the displacement of that joint (where the end link attaches to the sway bar) is not linear. It travels along a circular path, with it's center at the torsion bar bushing. The angle between the end link and the arm varies as the suspension flexes. Changing the link length, on both sides, isn't going to alter the relative angular displacement of the torsion bar (which gives it the loading).
Our rigs are big and wiggly anyways, a lot of folks just ditch the torsion bars and embrace it
The spring rate is the spring rate, nothing impacts spring rate other than the spring. The end link length has no impact, whatsoever.
The spring rate is the spring rate. End links don't affect this.
The motion ratio is a function of the end link length, all other things being equal. This therefore affects the wheel rate.
So, you know, you're wrong
You said "spring rate"
The motion ratio is not going to be different, you'll just alter the starting point... but that doesn't matter other than slightly changing the loads on the end links. The anti roll effect will be unchanged as the load equalizes across, end to end... if you are concerned that the increased loading on the end links is going to cause them to fail, that's valid, but historically that is not what we have seen.
