dohcdelsol93
snoogans
- Thread starter
- #281
No. The 94 has a non abs option.
Swapping a VW into a 1st gen IFS 4 runner (1 Viewer)
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ntsqd
technerd
I've posted a lot about brakes in my "Comments on Brakes" thread in the FJ60 section. Maybe something there will help?
Bore size doesn't matter to whether or not you need an RPV, only if it is a drum brake application, or if you are getting excessive pad knock-back, or the m/c's location is lower than the calipers. Sometimes a system will need one for no good reason at all.
I didn't find it in my notes, don't recall what the Toyota pedal's ratio is, but it would need to be about 5.5:1 for the overall ratio to be about correct for unboosted use. It is more likely in the 6:1 to 7:1 range which puts the overall ratio over the line into the squishy pedal range.
With a 1" bore and D52 calipers (2-15/16" piston) you have a LOT of hydraulic ratio. The pedal is going to be squishy feeling. How does it feel engine off with the check valve removed from the booster? My guess is still squishy, and a booster will only make that worse.
Bore size doesn't matter to whether or not you need an RPV, only if it is a drum brake application, or if you are getting excessive pad knock-back, or the m/c's location is lower than the calipers. Sometimes a system will need one for no good reason at all.
I didn't find it in my notes, don't recall what the Toyota pedal's ratio is, but it would need to be about 5.5:1 for the overall ratio to be about correct for unboosted use. It is more likely in the 6:1 to 7:1 range which puts the overall ratio over the line into the squishy pedal range.
With a 1" bore and D52 calipers (2-15/16" piston) you have a LOT of hydraulic ratio. The pedal is going to be squishy feeling. How does it feel engine off with the check valve removed from the booster? My guess is still squishy, and a booster will only make that worse.
Ok. Last week I put in a new aisin 1 inch bore master on my fzj80. No matter how many times i pumped it went to the floor. No leaks. Bleed a lot. Eventually drove my neighborhood with nearly no stopping power using the ebrake so as not to kill people. Suddenly after a few laps the brakes started working. I know this can happen when an abs valve is bad and letting the fluid cycle back, but also with a bad master. However when pumping i could hear it pushing fluid. Without abs you could still be looking at one of the chambers leaking and not pumping. However it might just start working also like mine did. For me. I still don't know if my new master was failing or my abs.
dohcdelsol93
snoogans
- Thread starter
- #284
My new master arrives today. I'll bench bleed at the shop and install tonight. If it continues to be.... squishy....I'll toss in the residual valve . This eliminates a good deal of the leak down that causes squishy brakes. Why am I typing in italics???
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ntsqd
technerd
Leak-down would cause the pedal to have a lot of travel, once. Press it and get a lot of travel. Press it again immediately after the first press and it should not have near the same travel distance. Same is true for excessive pad knock-back, but you'd need to be driving it to experience that, or high piston retraction calipers (GM built those in the '90s and they occasionally get mixed into regular rebuilds). An RPV should cure those, but leak-down is probably a bad m/c.
A mushy feeling pedal is different. That is the result of the hydraulic ratio, the pedal ratio, and the booster combined together. An RPV won't help with this. Going to the "Metric" D154 caliper (2.50" piston) might help, but the brackets aren't the same. the typical cause is too big of a caliper piston for the size of the m/c piston. Or said differently, too small of a m/c piston for the size of the caliper piston.
A mushy feeling pedal is different. That is the result of the hydraulic ratio, the pedal ratio, and the booster combined together. An RPV won't help with this. Going to the "Metric" D154 caliper (2.50" piston) might help, but the brackets aren't the same. the typical cause is too big of a caliper piston for the size of the m/c piston. Or said differently, too small of a m/c piston for the size of the caliper piston.
dohcdelsol93
snoogans
- Thread starter
- #286
Being this kit was designed for our our vehicles I don't think it's an issue with the size of the rear calipers.
ntsqd
technerd
From years of experience in watching people struggle with these calipers on many different forums and in person I have to disagree.
forum.ih8mud.com
Comments on brakes
I got to thinking that I've made comments about what I learned in two years of designing racing brake components and several decades of working on racing vehicles in many different threads, and perhaps I should put them all in one place instead. This thread is an on-going effort to do just that...
forum.ih8mud.com
dohcdelsol93
snoogans
- Thread starter
- #288
Let's agree to disagree, yesterday you were saying these were calipers with parts that were hard to find or obsolete but sell all over eBay/Amazon/jegs/summit/your favorite speed shop or hotrod shop website. I appreciate your input but I don't think it's valid in this application
ntsqd
technerd
Agreed.
No, what I was saying is that the parts to fix the internal adjusters are or were getting rare and hard to find. The calipers are available, but most rebuilders don't bother with making the p-brake adjuster work or work well. With the current flood of chinesium made rare parts those internal parts may be more common now, but they're still chinesium.
No, what I was saying is that the parts to fix the internal adjusters are or were getting rare and hard to find. The calipers are available, but most rebuilders don't bother with making the p-brake adjuster work or work well. With the current flood of chinesium made rare parts those internal parts may be more common now, but they're still chinesium.
dohcdelsol93
snoogans
- Thread starter
- #290
Hate to say it but near everything you buy as a consumer is chinesium. There is a difference between China knock off and actual qc controlled items under OEM name (holder, Briggs and Stratton, etc). But I don't think we even make shoes in the USA anymore.
Anyways, this common caliper is popular among hot rodders, 4x4 guys and many others who want rear discs with p/brakes. You'll find dozens of vendors for them. Black and red seem to be the only colors I've found other than unpainted.
So experimented for you guys, so you don't have to.
I have the 1994 dual diaphragm brake booster. 94 v6 4 runner dual piston calipers and caddy rear calipers.
The v6 1 inch 4 runner booster sucked. She had no pedal until 70 to 75% down. 92 fj80 booster also sucked. No brakes until 50 or 60% down. Sky manufacturing makes a GM 1 ton to Yota booster adapter. Installed a new one from orileys, 90 buck master commercial price.
Full brakes 25% down just the way God intended.
If anyone needs a lightly used 1 inch Yota brake master I have 3 of them I cannot return. I'll give you a killer deal. But for big 4 wheel disks on these rigs, to full size Chevy some 1.25 inch bore master. She moves some fluid
Anyways, this common caliper is popular among hot rodders, 4x4 guys and many others who want rear discs with p/brakes. You'll find dozens of vendors for them. Black and red seem to be the only colors I've found other than unpainted.
So experimented for you guys, so you don't have to.
I have the 1994 dual diaphragm brake booster. 94 v6 4 runner dual piston calipers and caddy rear calipers.
The v6 1 inch 4 runner booster sucked. She had no pedal until 70 to 75% down. 92 fj80 booster also sucked. No brakes until 50 or 60% down. Sky manufacturing makes a GM 1 ton to Yota booster adapter. Installed a new one from orileys, 90 buck master commercial price.
Full brakes 25% down just the way God intended.
If anyone needs a lightly used 1 inch Yota brake master I have 3 of them I cannot return. I'll give you a killer deal. But for big 4 wheel disks on these rigs, to full size Chevy some 1.25 inch bore master. She moves some fluid
ntsqd
technerd
What I've been trying to get across is that those calipers are not popular in any automotive hobby with those who've BT,DT and those who have paid attention to those folks' experiences. The reason that they're still sold is because they can, not because they're a good option. Where I see them used the most is on 14bff rear axles under serious rock crawlers, and those guys don't bother with the p-brake function. Most don't even buy the version of the caliper that has that function.
But you seem determined to use them, so good luck.
But you seem determined to use them, so good luck.
dohcdelsol93
snoogans
- Thread starter
- #292
Plenty of old Chevelle's, novas, blazers and broncos running them dude. Again, I appreciate your opinion but we are again going to have to agree to disagree. Plenty of info on them from hotrod forums to pirate.
I am not going with disk in the back on mine, but I am using the same front calipers you use and I have been trying to figure out what master I should use with the extra volume. I have 1 inch but it is for fzj80 which is front and rear disk so I don't think I can use that one. I still don't have the cab mounted on the frame so I have time to figure it out.. Very cool to see how you get it figured out.
I ran the rear calipers from Cad El Dorado/Buick Riviera on my Jeep TJ. They just suck. A pita to adjust right, don't self adjust worth a crap and don't hold well either. Not to mention trying to get the cables worked out.
You want to run them more power to you. Hope you are good with adjusting them, constantly
You want to run them more power to you. Hope you are good with adjusting them, constantly
dohcdelsol93
snoogans
- Thread starter
- #295
I daily drove a 67 fj40 with 4 wheel drums for @ 4 years before I finally swapped to front disks. I don't know anything about adjusting brakes.
Keep in mind that if you don't set the parking brake at every stop they won't self adjust. An issue for slush box drivers, not so much manual rigs, especially a daily driver.
Not trying to sell you guys on these. This is the set up I chose for my daily driver build. I honestly don't care of your opinions on them or how your brothers cousin knew a guy who had them and they didn't like them. This is simply documenting my build as I go. If you like my build feel free to continue following, if you want to voice your opinions of what you'd do differently I'd rather you make a separate thread and have that discussion there.
Its time consuming to make updates for all those following this thread, adding pics takes even longer. I'd rather not go into that on this thread. I hear that if arguments your thing Twitter is a great place to discuss items like gender, politics and religion. Thanks.
Keep in mind that if you don't set the parking brake at every stop they won't self adjust. An issue for slush box drivers, not so much manual rigs, especially a daily driver.
Not trying to sell you guys on these. This is the set up I chose for my daily driver build. I honestly don't care of your opinions on them or how your brothers cousin knew a guy who had them and they didn't like them. This is simply documenting my build as I go. If you like my build feel free to continue following, if you want to voice your opinions of what you'd do differently I'd rather you make a separate thread and have that discussion there.
Its time consuming to make updates for all those following this thread, adding pics takes even longer. I'd rather not go into that on this thread. I hear that if arguments your thing Twitter is a great place to discuss items like gender, politics and religion. Thanks.
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dohcdelsol93
snoogans
- Thread starter
- #296
If you want a master for front disks/drums I have both the 1" 94 4 runner and 92 fj80 1" new from orileys. I'll send them to you for the price of shipping. They have been installed, just didn't pump enough fluid for my application. The 4 runner did great with front disks/drums
dohcdelsol93
snoogans
- Thread starter
- #297
Got the brakes finished. Ended up using a sky adapter to fit a GM 1 ton master. Brakes feel like a factory set up. The Yota 1 inch masters just didn't move the volume I needed. I've no been able to do much testing for the parking brake, the rig is on a slight incline and has held fine so far. Might need further mods to get a little more leverage vs the hand pull. Too much lake time and not enough wrench time here recently, trying to get this on the road in October or November. Just late enough in the year to not be able to enjoy the removable soft top.
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dohcdelsol93
snoogans
- Thread starter
- #298
Shots of the master. When it comes time to replace a clutch or any issues that require engine or trans removal I'll pull the motor to clean the engine bay, fill any unused holes, paint to matching color the do a wire tuck/clean up the hoses. Until then she's...eh...good enough.
dohcdelsol93
snoogans
- Thread starter
- #299
No picture worthy updates. Got the 22re high pressure pump removed and a Carter external low pressure high volume pump installed. I was able to get rid of the TEE Infront of my fuel filter under the hood. Made that corner a little more clean.
I then installed the plastic front fender liners and little splash guard rubber flaps that hang between inner fenders and frame.
Plan on dropping it off for alignment on Friday. Possibly time a test run Friday evening.
I then installed the plastic front fender liners and little splash guard rubber flaps that hang between inner fenders and frame.
Plan on dropping it off for alignment on Friday. Possibly time a test run Friday evening.
Oh man getting close. I know it isn't your first swap but i am sure it is still encouraging to be so close!
