Swapping a VW into a 1st gen IFS 4 runner (3 Viewers)

[ntsqd]

FWIW I've never felt the need to convert the rears to disc. I can't recall ever wearing out a set of drum brake shoes. I've been flirting with doing a full-float conversion (to make flat towing easier) and if I could keep the rear drums I would.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

I've never driven a 1st gen 4 runner more than a few feet so I won't have a side by side comparison but since this will be a daily driver I figured it's worth while since I'm in there. Drum brakes go bye bye in mud puddles. If this was a weekend warrior or trail rig I'd not care.

 

[clx16]

Will you retain ebrake by using the Nissan or Subaru style calipers?

 

[ntsqd]

Yeah, mud and deep water are the Achilles heals of drum brakes. You likely have way more of that in your area than I do in mine.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

Will you retain ebrake by using the Nissan or Subaru style calipers?

It came with universal brake cables and I have the stuff to crimp them together already (sailboat rigging tools). I believe the kit uses el el dorado calipers and rotors.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

Yeah, mud and deep water are the Achilles heals of drum brakes. You likely have way more of that in your area than I do in mine.

Really depends on the time of year but standing water in the road is not a rare occurrence, neither is 2 inches of rain in 24 hrs. I want this to be my year round grocery getter and work commuter vehicle

 

[dohcdelsol93]

Few thoughts on the disck brake set up (parking brake not done yet). I hate the calipers. These slide pin bolt designs with inside pad round spring clip (el Dorado) suck. The most PITA calipers I've ever worked with and I own Volkswagens and the little lady drives a discovery...so I know bad engineering when I see it.

If I had access to a machine shop I'd remake the mount brackets to reclock these calipers to make the bleeder hang at 12 o'clock instead of 130. You have to unbolt the pins to tilt them to bleed. Just that mod would make these more liveable.


Other than that the kit installs easy. Could be done in a day if I wasn't doing wheel bearings...which were really really bad.

 

[ntsqd]

I made the SST needed for rear wheel bearing R&R. Makes the job go much faster. Heavy plate that bolts to the backing plate and a couple of long (!) rods with loops on the ends so that a bearing puller be used. Still need to make better install tool(s).

Don't be surprised if those Caddy caliper p-brakes degrade over time. Everyone that I know who had them has moved on. Some to the Explorer set-up (easy on an Early Bronco), one back to drums when he removed the Warn FF kit at the same time.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

I took the axle shafts out and to the shop to press them out. My tennis elbow wasn't too keen on the beating of the shafts on plywood method. With the press it was a non eventful removal/reinstall once I figured out the right combination of scrap metal blocks/wood blocks to brace the drum backing plate and then cut down a fence post for reinstall.

The driver side bearing wanted to bend the backing plate while pressing out. Two small grooves cut into each side of the retainer spacer with a small zip wheel (don't go all the way through to the axle shaft) Made them decide to play a little more nicely.

I used koyo bearings and this my final Toyota build so I hope to not need to fool with this again.


The parking brake on these calipers are supposed to be self adjusting. I can see that self adjusting mechanism not working well after a couple seasons of salted roads or anywhere near the coast. I've never had much luck with self adjusting parking brakes or self adjusting brake drums for that matter.

 

[clx16]

Can you protect them with the waxy Cosmaline stuff or the CRC brand version (CRC 06026)? I know you all love the fluid film stuff too but this might be more durable as they say you can pressure wash it and it stay on.

 

[ntsqd]

The fundamental problem with the adjusters in those calipers is that they are fiddly and immersed in brake fluid. It is a very difficult set of competing constraints in the design of a mechanical disc caliper. The system's cable pull distance is rather short and you need a large leverage ratio. Those two don't play well together. To get a large leverage ratio you need a longer cable pull than most systems are capable of.

The author of this article: Rear Disc Brakes - Cadillac/GM calipers - https://classicbroncos.com/forums/ams/rear-disc-brakes-cadillac-gm-calipers.236/ long ago abandoned the caddy calipers in favor of the Exploder system which features a drum parking brake. I believe the FZJ80 RDB's and the current 4rnnr RDB's use a drum p-brake. That isn't an accident, most OEM's now employ this type of design.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

For 50 or 60 dollar a pop brake calipers I'd chunk them instead of investing a ton of time in repairs, even preventive.

Many of the issues with them not working properly are because automatic transmission owners not using them regularly. Living on the east coast i can count how many times I've used the parking brake on my slush box vehicles since I began driving in 1996 on one hand.

I didn't like the drum parking brake on my 40, however I liked it better than I did the 4 wheel drum brakes. The little lady has a drum parking brake on her disco but other than when I swapped her center console, it's never been used.

 

[ntsqd]

That's what most people going into these calipers thought. The hassle just got to be more than they were worth.

 

[clx16]

I know the 280zx calipers are not easy to find for the rear of an 82 Nissan/datson but those style calipers have a pretty good parking brake function as i understand it. I would guess you could find newer more available ones that have the same offset you need for the rotor(or you could add spacers to get it), and i am sure you could "adjust" the mounting bracket to have the right holes with correct threads. They are single piston calipers and they have a twist lock engagement style for the parking brake that i think you could easily leverage.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

I suppose I'll find out first hand, I put on average 1200 miles a month commuting for work....so very quickly. I can change and bleed the new caliper in about 20 minute's per side. About the same amount of time it takes me to adjust a drum brake.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

I know the 280zx calipers are not easy to find for the rear of an 82 Nissan/datson but those style calipers have a pretty good parking brake function as i understand it. I would guess you could find newer more available ones that have the same offset you need for the rotor(or you could add spacers to get it), and i am sure you could "adjust" the mounting bracket to have the right holes with correct threads. They are single piston calipers and they have a twist lock engagement style for the parking brake that i think you could easily leverage.

I'll look into this if I ever upgrade them. My parking brake will get used half a dozen times a day, 5 days a week. I have plenty of VW Passat parking brake calipers!!!

 

[ntsqd]

From what I've seen a big part of the problem is that these calipers are old and all of the spares for the p-brake mechanism have long ago been consumed. A frequent observation of remans is that the p-brake mechanism is seized, rusted, or otherwise not functional. Those that do work have had their protective plating removed by cleaning and de-rusting processes so now they are highly sensitive to any moisture in the brake fluid.

Vega supposedly supplied Ford with a p-brake service caliper that works well. I'd have to look up what the application(s) were for that caliper. Mustangs would be my guess. No experience with them.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

These are not AutoZone calipers. These appear to be the same (maybe came from) jegs or summit d152 calipers. They are very popular with old Chevy rear disk conversions, I don't think they will be in short supply of parts in the near future.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

Effing eh cotton....I've bled and bled and bled the brakes. Super hard pedal with engine off. Sinks to floor when off. Found a couple leaks at a few flange nuts. Loosened, tightend and cleaned the connectors. Leaks gone as of now. Rear end is jacked 4 ft off the ground for optimal bleeding. Flaring brake lines is not my favorite things to do, the stupid 3/16 flare stud always breaks off.


Hoping it's narrowed down to my orileys 1 inch bore 94 v6 4runner master cylinder crapped the bed. Yes it was bled with prop valve to rear adjusted to max pressure. Lspv or whatever the things called deleted. Dual diaphragm booster(new). All new calipers at 4 corners along with stainless brake hoses. All new calipers. All new wheel bearings.



Note: when using a 1 inch bore master you "shouldn't" need a 2lbs residual valve for 4 wheel disk brakes. I have one on hand just in case. The dual diaphragm booster isn't necessary either but it makes the pedal easier to push when going to the larger bore master. I've only had to use a residual valve when using drum brakes (10 lbs).


Brake switch is acting up, not always turning on the brake lights. Had I not been pumping brakes for 2 hours I'd have missed that. Best to find out now rather than when cruise control won't shut off when I hit the brakes.

 

[clx16]

Do you have abs?