Subaru Ascent v. LC200

[Mutant]

I'd love to see a Highlander or Subaru follow me where I drive every day. Not just for comedic purposes either....I'm curious how long they would last being abused and pushed to their limits. Tho, I don't think they'd go very far in rough terrain toting 600+ lbs of cargo. You'd also need to carry gear for when you get stuck, and you need to be able to pull other people out. I doubt you could even get the necessary ground clearance/lift needed out of one of these crossovers with the available aftermarket. If a crossover could do what I need my LC for, I would consider buying one. We'd all love better MPG out of our 200's but its not happening right now.

We all get that @WorldCleanupDay is obsessed with the environment and pushing higher MPG vehicles over the 200 series (or the fantasy of an electric 200). We get it. Thanks. Until you actually produce a realistic alternative for this segment you are just blowing hot air. Go talk to the Soccer Moms and Mall Crawlers who don't go offroad. Better yet, come to Texas and take a shot convincing all these women going shopping alone that they don't need a Surburban or F250 to do that.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Most on here know I think all cars are great, and that the driver makes the car capable. So I love Subaru’s, and the ascent will be a great adventure vehicle for thousands.

That said, just the vehicle’s capability, in pure stock form, no mods:
If it stays with their current “Symetrical All Wheel Drive” setup, the Ascent won’t have a low range or a center locking feature to provide true 50/50, which will mean up to 90% of power can be sent to one wheel.

Which means when you are trying to climb steep, moguled hills, the power will be sent up front and you’ll never get the traction needed to pull up.

Combined with virtually no articulation from a fully independent suspension, it will be much easier to force that power to the wheel with less traction.

CVTs don’t handle long periods of time in low, slow, heat building, high torque situations as proven by current Subaru CVT technology.

Brake actuated traction control won’t be able to fully hold back spinning wheels with that much power sent to a single wheel, and using any brake actuated traction control on hill climbs leave a lot to be desired, even in a 200 which you can lock up to 50/50 (true 4wd). Land Rover Discovery tried it and failed miserable and the current Jeep Grand Cherokee with every off road option still struggle great to keep up with a stock 200. (Lots of real world trial and error with these vehicles, not just what I think from a computer)

Let’s talk the construction. A body on frame can take repeated bottoming out for years and never have a problem. The frame is basically a big last ditch skid plate, and the body isn’t relied upon to hold the chassis together.

A unibody will take repeated hits to the body seams, and given off road driving, you will be flexing the suspension all the time, also remember that it’s IFS and IRS so even more stress will be placed on the uni-frame to maintain rigidity. So over time, with bent and mashed body seam welds, and flexing, the body seam will begin to pull apart, and the vehicle is compromised. Saw it on a friends super built newer outback, that car lasted about 3 years trying to follow my FJ when the body seams began to compromise.

So no, not even close will the Subaru Ascent be anywhere as capable as a 200. While all the specs aren’t out let, enough are. This doesn’t mean it will be a bad vehicle, far from it, but it won’t compare to a 200 off road capability wise.

And I’ll take up any challenge to wheel them. Just like the Vermont Overland Trophy, the Subarus never finish, on the Vermont Overland Rally, they do pretty good, with only a couple time they need to bypass, but they do struggle more. And that in itself already proves the point. The Ascent will not have any game changing off-road features to prove otherwise. I’d be happy to see an off road terrain based traction control, but without a low range, and only 277 ft lbs from an engine that makes much less than that at idle, have fun climbing anything tough.

 

[uzj100]

This maybe the funniest thing I have read on Mud in 14 years of membership. Car vs Real truck. No comparison.

 

[Devils Paw 80]

So, here’s the question: with the obvious exception of nonexistent aftermarket support for a model that hasn’t hit dealer lots yet, how do you imagine the Subaru Ascent will influence the development of the next-gen Land Cruiser, if at all?...

Not at all. Toyota won't be influenced by this vehicle in the least when planning for the next generation Cruiser, and I don't imagine that the Ascent will become a vehicle of choice for off roaders either.

If your ulterior motive is to save the environment, a better approach may be to appeal to the interests of motorists to eschew their battle wagons as daily drivers. The number of 80 and 100 series one sees for sale, soon to be followed by 200 series no doubt, with 200+K miles on them always boggles my mind.

 

[mcgaskins]

What is the deal with all these weird threads?? No the Subaru is not a competitor, it’s not hard core, and the poll is irrelevant. This should be posted in the chit chat forum not 200 series tech.

 

[ryanCA]

This maybe the funniest thing I have read on Mud in 14 years of membership. Car vs Real truck. No comparison.

Trolls gonna troll ....

 

[gaijin]

 

[18Cruiser]

I like Subaru's. I think they are a "more serious crossover" than most of whats out there generally. They are quality vehicles from what I have seen and heard, although I have never owned one.

That being said, this Ascent ain't no Land Cruiser. Now, obviously, I haven't sat in one or ever looked at one in person but even Subaru isn't positioning this thing as a competitor of full sized off-road trucks.

 

[KLF]

These comparison threads are ridiculous. It's all TL;DR

I've been in a few Subarus. They all felt tinny, flimsy, and underpowered.

 

[RS6tofj80]

if you hadn't spent the time to type so much info and attempted to frame your case I would've had to conclude you missed April fools day....

A highlander at best is the comp for whatever this Scoobie thing turns out to be...

 

[longranger]

Thank you everyone who’s voted and contributed so far — it’s really useful. To the mudder who wrote this is the most entertainint thread in 14 years of mudding, then we should all take pride in that, cause there’s some downright funny and wild stuff written on here — in the best possible sense imaginable.

When I wrote about good motivations, I’m not talking about the environment or just “greening” the Land Cruiser. I’m talking about approaching the various trucks/cars from an objective viewpoint, while trying to limit LC-bias. And I’m writing this reminder for myself as someone who just bought a 200 that I’ve been saving for and researching about for years. It’s an astonishingly capable truck, but it’s not perfect, and there’s always room for improvement.

For me, one of the defining features of a truly “capable” off-road rig is range, and this was one of my big eye-opening moments about the cruiser. Yes, I knew about the 25 gal tank, yes I knew about estimates versus real MPG, and big MPG degrades with bigger tires and loads, but I still somehow thought that overall range of a bone stock and actually lightened 200 (rear seat delete) would be closer to the 250 mile mark. When I couldn’t get those real world range numbers, then thoughts turned to the outboard cans, aux tanks, the Long Ranger, and from there, the list of desired mods starts growing.

So straight off the base, this is one comp that I think Toyota Land Cruiser engineers/managers SHOULD be paying attention to, because it translates into real-world performance.

For me, some of the most rewarding off-road experiences have been unplanned detours, just following the trail as far as fuel permits. I suspect that’s the case for a lot of us. So if there’s one “capability” metric where Ascent will probably exceed the 200, and by a lot, ON ROUGH ROADS/TRAILS (no Prius comments please), it will be real-world range/reach into the backcountry.

I really appreciate the comment about the well-built late-model Outback and the fact that it kept up on the trails for 3 years before body seams started weakening. That’s the big question here: did the Subaru folks sink those lessons into design and the Indiana manufacturing processes so that what emerges with the Ascent is a next-gen “unibody” that’s even more structurally/mechanically sound than every previous Subaru build?

The only dog I have in this race is the sincere desire to see the Ascent climb to Land Cruiser heights, AND BEYOND — because I know that will push mudders to demand more stock range from Toyota in the next gen LC. Again, I’m saying this as a 200 driver who will be really applauding the Ascents, and yes, Priuses when they are plowing on deeper into the backcountry while I have “range anxiety” and dwindling fuel in my stock 200, or “build anxiety” with a Long Ranger or any other aux tank (praying the fuel pumps/lines were run well by the pros).

These are legit “capability” points as much as articulation/angles/low-end torque — and I know everyone here knows this. And there are lots of other areas where the Subie will be outshining the LC (cabin layout, perhaps)— and that’s a good thing — and we’d be well advised to document what those things are and demand those “capabilities” in the next gen Cruiser.

Denying those capabilities or rejecting the comparison as non-comparable doesn’t comport with the way these vehicles are used and will be used by skilled/experienced real-world overlanders/mudders/adventurers. We all know this because we see Subies on the trails more and more, and now, that’s only going to increase. So better to anticipate this and start thinking of how we push the envelope further still.

 

[M1911]

Don’t feed the troll.

 

[RS6tofj80]

In my dozen plus years of traveling the bush in S. Africa I saw hundreds of Prado's, LC's and a good scattering of rovers and G's..... NEVER one Subaru...... . all are body on frame, it's just a needed start point for any reall offroad rig ( except perhaps for the Jeep cherokee etc)

Living in Maine Scoobies were like weeds..... and the preferred winter rat car....

that said - their strength was always being capable in mixed conditions, but short of the WRX's and the Xt's or the 3.6 they're hardly inspring to drive....

 

[longranger]

I like Subaru's. I think they are a "more serious crossover" than most of whats out there generally. They are quality vehicles from what I have seen and heard, although I have never owned one.

That being said, this Ascent ain't no Land Cruiser. Now, obviously, I haven't sat in one or ever looked at one in person but even Subaru isn't positioning this thing as a competitor of full sized off-road trucks.

Agree that Subaru isn’t positioning the Ascent as a “Cruiser-killer” — I’m saying that second/third-gen Subaru owners who are upgrading to the Ascent will be orienting their Ascents towards Land Cruiser terrain. Again, everyone familiar with Subaru and the hardcore Subaru community knows this to be true, and I see that as a good thing, because Cruisers/Mudders will then push their rigs further. Competition drives innovation here.

 

[mark71]

Troll.

 

[Romer]

Not sure the value of this in 200 Tech. Thread closed