Static electricity & plastic fuel cans

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I’ve heard the warnings about filling fuel cans without removing them from the vehicle first. I know when filling the oil tankers in Valdez, there are grounds attached to manage electrical discharges

I leave my plastic fuel cells more or less permanently strapped in the back of the 80. Are there still static electricity issues with plastic fuel cells, or only metal cans ? How does one address these concerns? I assume some kind of ground ?
 
Just ground the cans with your body before you fill and you should be good. Ie touch the can with one hand and touch the steel pole bastian thing or something else to discharge any static build up. I feel my fans up on my swing out all the time. Just my .02 cents
 
I leave my plastic fuel cells more or less permanently strapped in the back of the 80.
Let me first say I'm not trying to start fight with you, or flame you, no pun intended. Now that that's out of the way, let me start off by saying it's a VERY BAD, and VERY dangerous idea to carry any amount of gasoline inside your passengers compartment. Unless of coarse, you actually want to turn the people, or the contents of your passengers compartment into a roaring bonfire in the event of an accident.
 
I’ve heard the warnings about filling fuel cans without removing them from the vehicle first. I know when filling the oil tankers in Valdez, there are grounds attached to manage electrical discharges

I leave my plastic fuel cells more or less permanently strapped in the back of the 80. Are there still static electricity issues with plastic fuel cells, or only metal cans ? How does one address these concerns? I assume some kind of ground ?


The 'concern' lies more with having fuel INSIDE the vehicle....regardless the container. The risk of starting a fire via static electricity is small, you run the same risk each time you touch the nozzle to your vehicles fuel neck, but it IS POSSIBLE and has happened.

I live in rural setting and go town to fill 6-8 fuel cans (plastic) with gasoline and diesel about every two weeks. I simply use a small trailer to haul it all in. I recognize not everyone has a place to keep a trailer and lifestyles are different but you should NEVER have fuel inside your vehicle. Do whatever you need to do....to correct that if by ('strapped in the back')... means you have it inside.

small trailer3.webp
 
@Rifleman @flintknapper Well, now I am not as worried about the CO2 tank i carry inside !!!

I’ve built a trailer, but she’s not ready for this trip. That’ll be the long term solution for some of the crap I currently strap down inside.

Thanks to all that contributed to this thread.

E5632EC2-58DB-4BF2-A467-90CE81E8BB11.webp
 
The problem of filling fuel cans in a vehicle, regardless of the vehicle, is that the tires act as great big insulators. When fuel is drawn through a pump systems, it picks up static. If you then run it into a fuel can that is insulated from ground, the static builds up, turning the fuel can into a battery that is packed with explosive power.

I would not rely on your personal touch to ground a vehicle in this case. You need to take the fuel cans out and place them on the ground so that the static does not build up creating this dangerous situation.
 
Some good comments on here but, not all address everything that will be an issue with static electricity and fuel. Most have it correct that you want to "bleed" off the electrical charge built up on the can before filling. Typically this is more of a concern with the cans on the outside of the vehicle due to the air passing over the can causing an electrical charge to build on the can.

Second, an additional charge is built upon the can when you are filling the can with fuel. You should have the metal hose in firm contact with the can (metal or plastic) and/or the can on the ground or grounded. The more surface area you have in contact with metal and the gas can, the better. The more ungrounded surface area on the can, the greater the charge that can build as plastic is obviously an insulator. A charge will build anytime you have a material moving through a plastic. Think about wood dust as an example. Anyone who has ever connected a shop vac to a belt sander has experienced a pretty darn good jolt when contacting the hose after running awhile.

Wind is your friend any day that you are filling these up. This is because your are diluting the gas fumes but, you also distribute them. All Flammable liquids have an LFL (lower flammability limit) and an UFL (upper flammability limit) and, as should be obvious, this is where the concentration of the material with the in air, create the flammable range of the material. This is why repair garages, as an example, are required to be ventilated to help reduce the possibility of creating a hazard. The National Fire Protection Agency also recognizes ventilation as a way to mitigate the inherent dangers and, in some cases, "declassify" spaces based upon the amount of air movement when properly designed. Gasoline has a range of roughly 1.4% and 7.6% depending on the temperature of material and air. Pretty low so here you see the hazard.

Keeping your cans inside your vehicle will not allow for natural ventilation to assist in distributing the vapor and, to make maters worse, they are now contained in the vehicle and the fumes can "pool" in pockets that temporarily trap the material as the fumes are heavier than air. Another example, in a repair garage, the space from the floor up to 18" is considered a "classified" location by the NFPA and as a result, special precautions are required when designing the electrical systems that enter or pass through this area.

Static and vehicles are ever present, inside and outside as traveling through the wind will "charge" the vehicle. You discharge this when exiting the vehicle and touching the earth and skin of the car at the same time. They make "ground straps" on vehicles that you can attach to your axle to help discharge the static when stopped. These are strips that will lift off the ground at speed and come back into contact with the ground at lower speeds or stopping. This will drain the energy harmlessly to ground before exiting the vehicle. Honda specs tires that actually have compounds to help dissipate this charge as well!

To illustrate how big a deal static is. A number of years ago there was an explosion involving gasoline and a fuel delivery vehicle. All standard practices were used for the transfer of fluids, grounds were attached and all precautions followed. The ignition source was found to be a steal hatch on top of the vehicle that was open. The lid was no longer in good contact with the body of the fuel tank due to rust build up on the hinge of the lid. This allowed a static charge to build on the lid, and this is the interesting part, a cloud passing overhead imparted a charge to the lid. The energy reached a limit that it caused an arc when it could finally bridge the insulation (the rust). The lid and the fuel tank were a different voltage potentials and wanted to equalize causing the arc.

So, would I ever fill a fuel can inside a vehicle. NO, it is not grounded to the vehicle and you are containing the vapors inside creating additional hazards. Would I do so with the can outside the vehicle but not on the ground, yes. But it has to be in direct contact with the metal frame of the vehicle which must be then, in some manner, connected to the earth (remember paint and power coat ARE insulators). You are attempting to eliminate differences of potential. If there is no difference of potential, there is no possibility of an arc being created.

Sorry for the long post, my electrical roots are showing.
 
My bad, I thought the OP said he had cans on the back of his truck, not in the back of the truck. I feel like that would be a completely different scenario with the carpet involved and everything else. I would not fill a fuel can inside of my vehicle. I probably wouldn't even store fuel inside my vehicle for that matter.
 
I’ve heard the warnings about filling fuel cans without removing them from the vehicle first. I know when filling the oil tankers in Valdez, there are grounds attached to manage electrical discharges

Tankers are not insulated through tires, so not really relevant.
At work, all equipment is grounded before fueling because of the static created when the nozzle is inserted into or removed from the filler. and combined with vapor? well enough people have died that OSHA has had to make laws. So, not a great idea filling tanks while inside your 80 - plastic or not.
Simple solution is to remove and fill. Better solution is not to carry gas cans inside an enclosed cabin - ever. Best solution - Diesel Swap!
 
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Some good comments on here but, not all address everything that will be an issue with static electricity and fuel. Most have it correct that you want to "bleed" off the electrical charge built up on the can before filling. Typically this is more of a concern with the cans on the outside of the vehicle due to the air passing over the can causing an electrical charge to build on the can.

Second, an additional charge is built upon the can when you are filling the can with fuel. You should have the metal hose in firm contact with the can (metal or plastic) and/or the can on the ground or grounded. The more surface area you have in contact with metal and the gas can, the better. The more ungrounded surface area on the can, the greater the charge that can build as plastic is obviously an insulator. A charge will build anytime you have a material moving through a plastic. Think about wood dust as an example. Anyone who has ever connected a shop vac to a belt sander has experienced a pretty darn good jolt when contacting the hose after running awhile.

Wind is your friend any day that you are filling these up. This is because your are diluting the gas fumes but, you also distribute them. All Flammable liquids have an LFL (lower flammability limit) and an UFL (upper flammability limit) and, as should be obvious, this is where the concentration of the material with the in air, create the flammable range of the material. This is why repair garages, as an example, are required to be ventilated to help reduce the possibility of creating a hazard. The National Fire Protection Agency also recognizes ventilation as a way to mitigate the inherent dangers and, in some cases, "declassify" spaces based upon the amount of air movement when properly designed. Gasoline has a range of roughly 1.4% and 7.6% depending on the temperature of material and air. Pretty low so here you see the hazard.

Keeping your cans inside your vehicle will not allow for natural ventilation to assist in distributing the vapor and, to make maters worse, they are now contained in the vehicle and the fumes can "pool" in pockets that temporarily trap the material as the fumes are heavier than air. Another example, in a repair garage, the space from the floor up to 18" is considered a "classified" location by the NFPA and as a result, special precautions are required when designing the electrical systems that enter or pass through this area.

Static and vehicles are ever present, inside and outside as traveling through the wind will "charge" the vehicle. You discharge this when exiting the vehicle and touching the earth and skin of the car at the same time. They make "ground straps" on vehicles that you can attach to your axle to help discharge the static when stopped. These are strips that will lift off the ground at speed and come back into contact with the ground at lower speeds or stopping. This will drain the energy harmlessly to ground before exiting the vehicle. Honda specs tires that actually have compounds to help dissipate this charge as well!

To illustrate how big a deal static is. A number of years ago there was an explosion involving gasoline and a fuel delivery vehicle. All standard practices were used for the transfer of fluids, grounds were attached and all precautions followed. The ignition source was found to be a steal hatch on top of the vehicle that was open. The lid was no longer in good contact with the body of the fuel tank due to rust build up on the hinge of the lid. This allowed a static charge to build on the lid, and this is the interesting part, a cloud passing overhead imparted a charge to the lid. The energy reached a limit that it caused an arc when it could finally bridge the insulation (the rust). The lid and the fuel tank were a different voltage potentials and wanted to equalize causing the arc.

So, would I ever fill a fuel can inside a vehicle. NO, it is not grounded to the vehicle and you are containing the vapors inside creating additional hazards. Would I do so with the can outside the vehicle but not on the ground, yes. But it has to be in direct contact with the metal frame of the vehicle which must be then, in some manner, connected to the earth (remember paint and power coat ARE insulators). You are attempting to eliminate differences of potential. If there is no difference of potential, there is no possibility of an arc being created.

Sorry for the long post, my electrical roots are showing.


Do we some 'credits' if we read the entire thing? ;)
 
Remove cans & place on concrete/ground/terra firma -to fill with gasoline. Esp with plastic ‘cans’.
Diesel isn’t nearly the problem child as gas.

I used to boil propane, isobutane, butane on my process unit for a living. ;)
 
good thread and very educational. Thanks fellas.
 
To tie into the above discussion about static charges:

I'm not an electrical expert, but FWIW, before replacing the fuel pump in my 80 I first disconnected the battery then ran a ground wire from a bolt hole in the floor (threads cleaned for good contact) to a pipe in the ground about 15 feet away. From the above discussion it seems that if the tank itself was not grounded to the body (rusty bolts??), then the ground wire I rigged up might not have drained off static charges in/around the tank?

Any thoughts from the experts on grounding the vehicle and/or the fuel tank before opening the tank up??
 
I watched a guy’s arm go up in flames from placing samples taken off a transfer hose into a plastic fuel can. Samples were drawn off into a galvanized pail. Then “discarded” into the plastic container. We’re not allowed to possess any plastic type of “catchment” containers aboard the boats. Plastic fuel containers are static accumulators. No bueno.
 

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