Standardized comms (1 Viewer)

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@GLTHFJ60 , it's part of the band plan for GMRS. 7 upper frequencies designated for repeater operation.

The talk-around part is what I'm still trying to get my head around. simplex and repeater at the same time I'd think would cause issues.

@emorth It is tempting to get a few more of those floating around. I'm guessing it can be pretty much a closed box with power and antenna connections? That way we could semi hard wire it at in a trailer or hunt camp then unplug and hook up to a battery and portable antenna at another location.
 
Yes, they are GMRS freqs. The 462 block is for simplex and repeater output/transmit, the 467 block is for repeater input/receive. The 5 MHz between the two blocks is because repeaters need to have some separation between transmit & receive.

The bandwidth of the duplexer is very narrow, that's why they are only good for the 3 adjacent transmit & receive freqs (50 Khz bandwidth for the transmit freqs and 50 Khz bandwidth for the feceive freqs). If you wanted a GMRS (462-467 MHz) repeater and a UHF Ham (420-450 MHz) repeater they would have to be seperate repeaters.

The FRS freqs are limited to 0.5 Watts, no repeaters and fixed antennas are not allowed.

radio comparison edit.jpg


Simplex on a repeater transmit freq, called "talk around" is useful because you can monitor local simplex traffic and the output of the repeater at the same time. If you want to talk simplex to the local guys you use the simplex channel (CLCC channel 1)and when you want to talk to the guys on the other side of the mountain you switch to the repeater channel (CLCC channel 2). If you are on channel 1 or 2 you will hear the local simplex and the repeater.

repeater talk around.jpg
 
@emorth thank you for offering to build the mobile and fixed locations. All this research, you need a beer. I am interested, please advise on cost So I can budget accordingly. Mobile, weather protected, mobile antenna hanging in a tree, able to be attached to a fixed object securely.

I would love for @SeanLX and @GLTHFJ60 to take the lead for what frequencies ONSC would use for events if what you are kind enough to make for me can expand ONSC event communications. Could CCLC and ONSC use exactly the same frequencies to standardize both clubs? I would be happy to be one of the mobile locations. I have mobile radio’s and a fixed 25 watt radio in my truck currently. CHIRP is currently my native language for those devices.

Even if this all falls apart for ONSC, I am still interested.

Hunt camp will be a flurry of communication. Oh, the “girls” will be so happy that they can talk while stuck 40 feet in a tree. The girls are my buddies that talk too much.
 
roflbox said:
So if I do not have a GMRS yet, I should buy a baofeng
Or any programmable GMRS, and then wait for us to have unofficial official frequencies?
Click to expand...

Buy a baofeng. Only transmit on legal frequencies for your license level though. Or just use it to listen.
 
@Comet I will put a parts list together for you. Give me a couple of days.

@SeanLX and @GLTHFJ60 I would recommend programing all of the repeaters with the same frequencies. That way they are usable by both clubs when we get together for an event. Also, we could put repeaters from both clubs on the air if necessary to expand coverage areas. Food for thought. 🤔

CLCC uses the .550, .575 & .600 frequency pairs for our repeaters.
 
roflbox said:
So if I do not have a GMRS yet, I should buy a baofeng
Or any programmable GMRS, and then wait for us to have unofficial official frequencies?
Click to expand...

I won a Baofeng at Logan's Run last year and it has worked well for Uwharrie. I am planning on buying a 40W Midland to mount in the 60 as well but this is the Baofeng that they were giving away. Seems to be a solid option.

Amazon product ASIN B00MAULSOK
 
They are now FCC approved.
The fine print at the bottom of the ad. “Harmful interference” means don’t transmit on freqs you are not supposed/licensed to transmit on.

Safety Information :
This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the condition that this device does not cause harmful interference.
 
JohnVee said:
Whatever happened to "the Baofeng's are gonna be illegal and can't be sold anymore"? Seems they're just as available on Amazon but with higher wattages and price.
Click to expand...


Yea, a lot or people don't realize it but out of the box I think they've blocked transmit on GMRS for the ham ones (UV-5x) and blocked transmit on ham bands for the GMRS version (UV-5G).
I think you can get around it but they had to do something to keep the FCC happy.

Baofengs work and they are cheap but they are more complicated than required for simple GMRS use.
 
emorth said:
Yes, they are GMRS freqs. The 462 block is for simplex and repeater output/transmit, the 467 block is for repeater input/receive. The 5 MHz between the two blocks is because repeaters need to have some separation between transmit & receive.

The bandwidth of the duplexer is very narrow, that's why they are only good for the 3 adjacent transmit & receive freqs (50 Khz bandwidth for the transmit freqs and 50 Khz bandwidth for the feceive freqs). If you wanted a GMRS (462-467 MHz) repeater and a UHF Ham (420-450 MHz) repeater they would have to be seperate repeaters.

The FRS freqs are limited to 0.5 Watts, no repeaters and fixed antennas are not allowed.

View attachment 2920208

Simplex on a repeater transmit freq, called "talk around" is useful because you can monitor local simplex traffic and the output of the repeater at the same time. If you want to talk simplex to the local guys you use the simplex channel (CLCC channel 1)and when you want to talk to the guys on the other side of the mountain you switch to the repeater channel (CLCC channel 2). If you are on channel 1 or 2 you will hear the local simplex and the repeater.

View attachment 2920215
Click to expand...
Just a thought, some FRS channels (on the 462 range) have been updated to 2W. Baofengs (at least the 5UV types) can be selected to transmitt in 4 or 1 W, so they can be programmed to follow part 97 and stay compliant. Problem is people dont follow, or dont know, the band plans and interfere with the private ones.

We used FRS, 2W, for the 36Hours of Uwharrie and had a good 1.5 mile range (fast decay beyond that) in the Uwharrie forest.
 
OK, so at the risk of exposing the fact that I am a techno-nerd-geek, here is a different view of the advantage of a repeater.

This is an Google satellite view of the Cove where we hold the Fall Crawl. We camped at camp VI.

cove.jpg


This is a propagation map of the coverage area of a base station radio in the camp. GMRS freq at 40 Watts.
Green is good comms, yellow is marginal comms.

Clipboard02.jpg


This is a propagation map of the coverage area of a repeater on top of the mountain. The repeater's antenna was lower than the mountain range to the east, that is why there is a distinct end to the coverage. The repeater's transmit power was 10 Watts, the antenna was hoisted into a tree about 40 feet up.

Clipboard01T.jpg
 
We also need to get the upstate cruisers guys in on this as well as the Tennessee club that runs GSMTR.
I will tag their leadership later on in this thread.
Maybe they would like to follow suit and we could all be using the same standardized method of communicating.

I will also add that at this point this conversation has far exceeded my knowledge base. I point that out because in order for this to work I feel that this needs to be kept dummy proof. Or at least simple enough that we can use a cheat sheet to get folks squared away.

@SeanLX i hate to say this but you are the most knowledgeable guy I know when it comes to this stuff and it sounds like their is already the makings of a good comms plan by the Virginia folks. Would you mind taking a lead on this and just let me know how my dumbass can assist.

Also, while I am rambling. I simple walk though or familiarization class on different ham and MGRS radios at the meet and greet would be very helpful I think. I can only learn so much from YouTube without being able to ask questions or messing with the radios themselves
 
There will be a lot of radio programming at our events for a good long while. I got to where I could change a stock baofeng setting pretty easily to a CLCC channel, but having to do it over again after needing to change channels for any reason just kills so much time. Having someone with a programming cable and a laptop running CHIRP make it so much easier to handle the baofengs. I have somebody do two of my baofengs every year in case I screwed something up in use (I’ve never been able to get it to work on my MacBook).

EDIT: ^^^ This is because the CLCC presets aren't out of the box settings.

For CRR, I’d suggest having a posted time to have somebody available to CHIRP a radio at the registration tent. Maybe an hour each morning and evening to get it done in bulk and not monopolize that volunteer’s time. I’m certain we can find somebody in our ranks to do that. That's IF we utilize their frequencies as they currently are.
 
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Also, I might seem like a jerk to some people when I’m leading a trail, but I don’t leave camp until everybody has a radio that works in both directions, especially when I have a large group and/or strangers. It definitely cuts down on the time wasted by people getting out of their trucks to see what’s holding us up, since we all know that it’s pretty difficult to herd everyone back to their seat! It’s also very reassuring to noobs when they can ask questions in real time before making a move they might not fully understand.

Of course, this isn’t to imply that I’m not a jerk the rest of the time!
 
Jerk. I need an extension cord for my computer. I will volunteer Friday when I get to Relic Run.
 
All this conversation has me wanting my old CB back. Far too complicated for my limited interest in coms. I'll get me a cheapo hand held.
 
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