Standardized comms

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SFROMAN

SFROMAN

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I would like to propose a suggestion for standardization of our communications.
I like to be efficient and having to pick between
HAM, GMRS, FRS, CB
I just hate that every time we are doing something, event or trail ride you basically have to carry all four because everybody is doing there own thing.
This Just plain sucks and I feel like this will just continue to be an issue year after year unless we just make a decision and pick one.
Clearly CB is just antiquated and FRS are fine but suck in the woods for the most part.

My proposal is to just make GMRS the standard for ONSC, supplemented with HAM.

GMRS radios are relatively cheap but with much greater distance.
Yes I know. GMRS radios do require a license but you don’t have to test for it. You just have to buy one. And the price is scheduled to be lowered at some point, hopefully this year. It currently is $75 and scheduled to drop down to $25. Also, I have never heard of anybody being fined for using GMRS without a license ( not that I am condoning that) or it ever being enforced or by whom. Big plus for the GMRS license is that it covers your whole family as opposed to a ham license that only covers the licensed person.

One more thing to mention is that by using GMRS radios it would also reduce the amount of people using ham radios without a license ( not saying we do that).

Also, yes I know. HAM is a superior form of comms but let’s face it. Most people are just not going to take the time to take the test for a HAM license. But by supplementing GMRS with HAM, those who are licensed, well then that’s just an added bonus especially for events like GSMTR and for those going Cruise Moab.

The way I look at it ALL the desert community can’t be wrong and this is what they use. Primary is GMRS supplemented with HAM.

Now I am by no means an expert in any of this stuff I just know that it is annoying having so many options especially when two of those options are obsolete in my opinion.
Also it would just make it cheaper to just have to buy one type of radio.

Disclaimer: I have no idea how the club BOD votes for this type of stuff so I apologize up front if my suggestion or proposal is out of line or if this is not the best way to make a proposal.

What do you guys think?
 
Well thought out presentation Del. Good timing as well as, believe it or not, I do have a trail truck and I pulled the CB out and tossed it and was in the process of finding a replacement. I really have no overwhelming desire to go the HAM route as I am just not all that jazzed about all that is involved. Just another separate hobby as far as I see it.

To me your argument for GMRS is where I was leaning anyway but was a little wary about what everyone else was using. I was thinking a built in unit but am thinking now that a good quality hand held may well be the better route.

I think that Del has a good idea here. It has been my experience that even past a radio as a piece of safety equipment, being in touch with others on the trail enhances the overall experience. I have heard some pretty amusing stuff on the radio while on the trail.
 
Not a fan of CB, yelling is just as efficient. But with frs and gmrs sharing the same frequencies, I suggest we use both. The difference is in power with gmrs being higher. FRS for me works fine in a convoy, just won’t reach the outside world like HAM or gmrs can. Maybe have trail leads and tails with GMRS or ham? Just a suggestion, the Baofengs (vafanguls) radios can bridge all 3 frequencies too, and adjust power with programming
 
I agree with GMRS. That's also what most other clubs around the country seem to be standardizing on. I've read a few threads on mud on this exact topic while researching GMRS radios to hardwire into the 60. Will be buying a Midland before the first event.
 
Have you found that range is improved with a hard wired unit enough to warrant over a high quality hand held?
 
NCFJ said:
Well thought out presentation Del. Good timing as well as, believe it or not, I do have a trail truck and I pulled the CB out and tossed it and was in the process of finding a replacement. I really have no overwhelming desire to go the HAM route as I am just not all that jazzed about all that is involved. Just another separate hobby as far as I see it.

To me your argument for GMRS is where I was leaning anyway but was a little wary about what everyone else was using. I was thinking a built in unit but am thinking now that a good quality hand held may well be the better route.

I think that Del has a good idea here. It has been my experience that even past a radio as a piece of safety equipment, being in touch with others on the trail enhances the overall experience. I have heard some pretty amusing stuff on the radio while on the trail.
Click to expand...
yeah. Just doesn’t make any sense to continue to have this issue. Year after year.

My plan is to go hard wired GMRS unit in my trail rig supplemented with a handheld Ham that I already own.

My tow rig will be the opposite. I am going with a hardwired ham unit supplemented with a GMRS Unit that I already own.

For now that is my plan mainly because I already own a handheld ham and a handheld GMRS and I am trying to avoid spending more money that I have to on this.
 
Midland MicroMobile 15W GMRS Two-Way Radio with Integrated Control Microphone (Bundle) Amazon product


This midland comes with everything you will need to set up and should be more than enough for any off-roading event most of us participate in.

This midland has a bunch of great reviews from other guys that do the type of stuff that we like to do so it seems like a no brainer for 99.9% of us.


Midland Radio MXT400VP3 Full 40W Radio Micromobile Bundle Amazon product


This is the one I am going to buy. A bit more money, A little more power and range but it will meet my needs a little better since I plan to do more events and travel more in the next couple of years.



I also went ahead and got my HAM and MGRS license just so Im all legal ( too bad I can’t say the same for my citizenship) hahaha
 
NCFJ said:
Have you found that range is improved with a hard wired unit enough to warrant over a high quality hand held?
Click to expand...

I have only used my Baofeng at Uwharrie and haven't had any range issues but we're usually within a few hundred yards. At SAS in Ouray, where we had groups spread out over multiple peaks and from top to bottom on the mountains, there was a noticeable difference between the guys with handhelds and those with wired units.

I also want a wired unit so I don't have to mess with charging it. I'm also planning on getting the 40W unit that Del listed above.
 
I enjoy my ham radio hobby but for the trails and clubs GMRS is the way to go. They changed some rules in 2017 and allow more power and repeaters now which makes it different from FRS most people were used to.
Another big plus past the no testing for a license is that FRS/GMRS uses channels. Much better for casual use than 5 digit frequencies on multiple bands and worrying about a band plan.

FRS/GMRS handhelds are still limited to 5 watts and the mobile ones can use up to 50 watts on certain channels. More important than that power is the external antenna you get to use with a mobile rig.

An external antenna with 5 or 50 watts will get you some real range but there will always be issues if there's a mountain in the way. That's what repeaters are for but that's down the road.
 
I propose:
gettyimages-999907254-612x612.jpg
 
The string wont go through up and over the mountain, duh :)
 
As much as it may be (slightly) outside the law, the suggestion to just have a handful of preprogrammed baofengs is probably the way to go. That way, everyone has solid comm with a unit that is easy to use, and whoever the group leader is should just make sure that 1-2 people in the group have repeater capable GMRS or hardwired HAM for longer range emergency comms.
 
I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of said radio, but I heard a rumor that some Land cruiser guy in Virginia beach has all of the FRS and GMRS frequencies programmed into a ham radio....


Lol!

The only issue with FRS and GMRS, is overcrowding on the channels. On a busy weekend at Uwharrie, it can be hard to find an unused channel and people are always stepping on each other. HAM freqs are more abundant, but come with the associated complexity of programming. I have an excellent solution to this problem using only one frequency and PL tones, but alas, getting people to actually do it is several bridges too far.
 
Yep. CLCC uses GMRS but alters some of the details on each channel to avoid the traffic of people using the factory presets. It’s a giant pain every year to alter the channel details of everybody in a trail group who doesn’t already have a baofeng that they have programmed by a chirp file. And, IIRC, there’s an additional hurdle to jump over to get the midland radios to work. @emorth or @StaleAle can refresh my memory on that. TBH, I’ve never been able to get chirp to work on my MacBooks, so I’m as guilty of the next guy of not being prepped, but that’s why I now have a dedicated pair of radios for CLCC events that were programmed by a CLCC member using their chirp file.

My biggest gripe is when we all finally get our radios programmed (and usually nobody knows how to do that in advance; I’ve learned the bare minimum to get this done for my groups and have to practice before every event, even tho I keep a dedicated pair of baofengs chirped to the CLCC freq’s) and we find too much radio traffic while on a trail (even if it’s just other CLCC folks) - nobody ever remembers what we did to alter the preset channel so I have to go over it all again with each person. Often, I find that people just give up and ignore the radio altogether. My new rule is going to be holding up the entire group until every single radio works on both TX and RX.

That said, GMRS is far superior to FRS as far as working in the woods and hills, so I feel better about fewer people having working radios as long as the lead, middle and tail all work, provided I know the people in the group I’ve definitely found that working comms are of utmost importance to helping newbies have a fun, safe trip…especially when they bring their family on their very first ride in the woods!

Sorry for the rant.

Oh, I want to say that there’s a GMRS license rule that allows for a single license holder to “share” their license for a group? This bears some time spent researching.
 
JohnVee said:
Yep. CLCC uses GMRS but alters some of the details on each channel to avoid the traffic of people using the factory presets. It’s a giant pain every year to alter the channel details of everybody in a trail group who doesn’t already have a baofeng that they have programmed by a chirp file. And, IIRC, there’s an additional hurdle to jump over to get the midland radios to work. @emorth or @StaleAle can refresh my memory on that. TBH, I’ve never been able to get chirp to work on my MacBooks, so I’m as guilty of the next guy of not being prepped, but that’s why I now have a dedicated pair of radios for CLCC events that were programmed by a CLCC member using their chirp file.

My biggest gripe is when we all finally get our radios programmed (and usually nobody knows how to do that in advance; I’ve learned the bare minimum to get this done for my groups and have to practice before every event, even tho I keep a dedicated pair of baofengs chirped to the CLCC freq’s) and we find too much radio traffic while on a trail (even if it’s just other CLCC folks) - nobody ever remembers what we did to alter the preset channel so I have to go over it all again with each person. Often, I find that people just give up and ignore the radio altogether. My new rule is going to be holding up the entire group until every single radio works on both TX and RX.

That said, GMRS is far superior to FRS as far as working in the woods and hills, so I feel better about fewer people having working radios as long as the lead, middle and tail all work, provided I know the people in the group I’ve definitely found that working comms are of utmost importance to helping newbies have a fun, safe trip…especially when they bring their family on their very first ride in the woods!

Sorry for the rant.

Oh, I want to say that there’s a GMRS license rule that allows for a single license holder to “share” their license for a group? This bears some time spent researching.
Click to expand...
Great points. John.

If I may offer up some solutions.

As far as setting up radios is concerned.
I am guilty of this as well.
My solution is we create laminated cheat sheets and throw them in the event bags for ONSC events
And the club can have a bunch of them laminated and can be given to club members at other club events.
At one point all vehicles will have a cheat sheet in there glove box. Problem
Solved.

As for MGRS license.
My MGRS license covers my whole family. It is a contract not just for me the individual but for my whole family ( the wording doesn’t say household, or immediate family)
I payed the $70 to the FCC and now have both my Ham And MGRS licenses linked to my FRN with the FCC.
all I had to do to get the MGRS license was put my info in on the FCC ONLINE site and pay.
NOTE: you will have to apply for an FRN with the FCC before you can apply for a license. I already had an FRN because of my HAM License.
Getting your FRN and GMRS license took me less than 30 min and that included doing quick searches on how to do it online.


Also I would like to point out that I HATE talking on the radio. BUT, I do understand the importance of having them. Which is why I think that if we are going to have comms at our club events then why not just standardize it across the club and adopt one system instead of 4.
 
I would just like to make a very important point also.

When I say WE will make cheat sheets for the radios I am saying I will make the cheat sheets. Not trying to be the good idea fairy and then pawn off the work.
Just wanted to clarify that.
 
This might help.


Agree, it would be good to have a single freq plan. If possible can the CLCC plan be the one we go with. Many CLCC members have Motorola radio the can not be user programmed and chirp doesn’t work. The radios can only be programmed with Motorola proprietary software. These radios were available to us before the consumer versions were available.

ONSC guys, Would you like to have a repeater for your club events? I have extras.
 
GMRS probably makes the most sense. Obviously, it would be great if everybody got their HAM license, but I just don't realistically see it happening. Heck, it took me years to get off my lazy butt and take the test. If I can just plop down a card and get a GMRS license on top of the HAM and program the same radio (Baofeng) for both, then count me in.
 
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