‘Spring rubbers’ LX570 missing link for attitude control on normal builds (non long travel) (2 Viewers)

[kcjaz]

Yeah, it's going to be very interesting science experiement. Maybe try a narrower spring rubber on the small coils (light side), and a taller one on the wide coils (heavy side) at the same time. This might just push the entire spring up in stiffness on both measures, turning it into a 300/380.

You could do some calcs on expected results by modeling the 2721 as two separate springs, and take a full wrap out of each. That would be the max effect (green). Then dial back from there to see what you need to get the target stiffness.

I'd also suggest doing the front axle first. Maybe a red on the top and a blue on the bottom?

I wasn't planning on doing anything to the front but maybe the weight of the LRA plus 24 gal of gas will ne noticeable on the front while breaking. With my new 4.88s I'll likely be breaking harder now as I'll be rocket launching from stop lights...

FWIW, here is a reference table for the OME springs:

	Free Height​	Spring Rate lbf/in)​
	A (mm)	B (mm)	1	2	Weight	Cost
2720​	420​	410​	270​	350​	40​	$ 221.00
2721​	440​	430​	270​	350​	44​	$ 228.23
2722​	440​	430​	275​	NA	40​	$ 281.24
2723​	450​	440​	340​	NA	44​	$ 281.24
2724​	445​	435​	400​	NA	44​	$ 362.36
2725​	445​	435​	440​	NA	44​	$ 394.00

 

[grinchy]

I found the front to be much more sensitive to spring rate changes than the back, but the LX has a completely different suspension, so probably behaves differently to added weight.

I ended up looking for these after adding front weight (bumper and winch).

It may be for the TLC you’ll be set with a rear increase, or you might need to get the same stiffness on all corners.

 

[highfructose]

Yeah, it's going to be very interesting science experiement. Maybe try a narrower spring rubber on the small coils (light side), and a taller one on the wide coils (heavy side) at the same time. This might just push the entire spring up in stiffness on both measures, turning it into a 300/380.

You could do some calcs on expected results by modeling the 2721 as two separate springs, and take a full wrap out of each. That would be the max effect (green). Then dial back from there to see what you need to get the target stiffness.

I'd also suggest doing the front axle first. Maybe a red on the top and a blue on the bottom?

Are you putting two of these things in each coil?

 

[grinchy]

Are you putting two of these things in each coil?

that discussion is around a TLC variable stiffness spring.

For the LX, I currently have one black in each front coil, and one blue in each back coil. I"m going to take the blue in the rear coils out next time I'm under the rig, just to see what changes (if anything).

 

[highfructose]

that discussion is around a TLC variable stiffness spring.

For the LX, I currently have one black in each front coil, and one blue in each back coil. I"m going to take the blue in the rear coils out next time I'm under the rig, just to see what changes (if anything).

I ordered black ones for the front (I’ve got a full bullbar and winch up there) and blue ones for the back.

I’ve already got a coil spacer and an extra long “right” spring on the left side perch in the rear…so I figure since it’s already mildly augmented, the blue one might be appropriate to assist with the steel arb bumper, Wilco swing away, and various tools I carry…plus sliders which are on the way and soon to be installed.

It was only after the steel rear bumper that there was a noticeable rocking forward and backwards when in comfort mode so hopefully I’m only just outside the envelope and these things will get me back into it.

Will update with my experiences.

I still don’t understand what cuts you made to the rubber spacers though…

 

[highfructose]

What is the purpose of cutting the rubber shock at an angle?

 

[grinchy]

my guess is to do with round or helical shape. you can just cut it straight and a bit shorter if you want. I doubt that an extra 10 mm of material support matters very much to the coil.

 

[highfructose]

my guess is to do with round or helical shape. you can just cut it straight and a bit shorter if you want. I doubt that an extra 10 mm of material support matters very much to the coil.

Did you cut them while they were installed on the coil? How tough was it to squeeze them in there?

 

[grinchy]

The first one was try to install, mark overlap, cut off, try to install, mark overlap, cutoff, try to install, snip some groove overlap, then install.

The second was wish I had marked the length from the first before installing, add up the length of the cutoffs, cut that, try to install, cut it shorter, and install.

You can’t cut it on the rig, unless you’re trimming the grooves only.

It took about an hour, including jacking and removing the wheels the first time.

The second set was 2 minutes install per side. Transfer length, hack it off, roll it in. I already had the wheels off for another reason.

If the length is short enough, it installs pretty easy between coils. If it’s too long, the overlap really makes it harder to get the last bit in. It gets easier with practice.

The instructions recommend a lube if necessary. I used for install one, but not install two or on the rear.

 

[tbisaacs]

I installed the black spring rubbers in front in less than an hour.

Like @grinchy ive been looking for like 20-25% more spring rate since adding armor and winch. These are an excellent and immediate dampening improvement.

I followed Sam’s instructions here. I found that aggressively trimming the inner lip made the install easier. And lots of silicon grease.

 

[grinchy]

I have a set of red incoming in size B, from one of the more generic amazon vendors. They were in the ware house for $12. Plan to put on the rear in place of the too short blue ones.

 

[highfructose]

I have a set of red incoming in size B, from one of the more generic amazon vendors. They were in the ware house for $12. Plan to put on the rear in place of the too short blue ones.

Would you care to use a techstream to measure ahc pressure before and after the spring rubber install?

 

[teejnut]

I installed the black spring rubbers in front in less than an hour.

View attachment 3195744

Like @grinchy ive been looking for like 20-25% more spring rate since adding armor and winch. These are an excellent and immediate dampening improvement.

I followed Sam’s instructions here. I found that aggressively trimming the inner lip made the install easier. And lots of silicon grease.

Are you or @grinchy running the OEM 10mm spacer in front as well? Or just stock AHC setup plus these?

I'm currently running the OEM spacer up front and Terrain Tamer rear springs (plus fresh accumulators). I was having issues going to H prior to that with the added weight. Things are ok now but I think more dampening in the front would be good too.

 

[grinchy]

No 10mm spacer, but if I ever replace the shocks I’ll be adding some spacer, probably around 15mm.

 

[tbisaacs]

Are you or @grinchy running the OEM 10mm spacer in front as well? Or just stock AHC setup plus these?

I'm currently running the OEM spacer up front and Terrain Tamer rear springs (plus fresh accumulators). I was having issues going to H prior to that with the added weight. Things are ok now but I think more dampening in the front would be good too.

None for me either

 

[outlaw4shrt]

I installed the black spring rubbers in front in less than an hour.

View attachment 3195744

Like @grinchy ive been looking for like 20-25% more spring rate since adding armor and winch. These are an excellent and immediate dampening improvement.

I followed Sam’s instructions here. I found that aggressively trimming the inner lip made the install easier. And lots of silicon grease.

Did you zip-tie yours in there like @grinchy did or did you just mount them in there and call it good?

 

[tbisaacs]

Did you zip-tie yours in there like @grinchy did or did you just mount them in there and call it good?

You need to zip tie or risk dropping em out. My zip ties are clipped and in back, you cannot see them.

 

[outlaw4shrt]

You need to zip tie or risk dropping em out. My zip ties are clipped and in back, you cannot see them.

Got it, thanks!

 

[highfructose]

Some data for interested parties:

I’ve had a persistent “lean” with a slightly lower passenger rear fender than driver rear fender that I’ve measured over the past week…only about 0.5” though.

Bear in mind a normal lx570 has a taller spring on that side to counter the excess weight of the gas tank…and I replaced the driver side rear with the same extra long spring to get an equal distribution of weight left to right…and I also have a spring spacer to preload both rears take some pressure off the ahc system (I had a significant driver side dip before that mod)…so I’ve got a fresh extra long spring on the driver side and a 10 year old extra tall on the passenger…which is probably contributing to the lean. If I had a new extra long spring for the passenger rear it would probably fix it…but adding spring rubbers is easy and cheap.

So I ordered some of these blue size b rubber shocks…I installed one on the passenger rear and then drove the vehicle for a few miles to, hopefully, allow the system to equalize its pressures and see if my lean reduced.

As a result, it lifted the drivers side 0.25”, bringing the total differential left and right from 0.5” to 0.25”…so it improved things as one would expect.

Then I added a second blue rubber to the same passenger rear coil, drove to equalize, and it returned…exact left to right rear fender height….getting rid of, it seems, the lean.

So if you have a lean with your ahc (or probably even a normal non ahc suspension), you might be able to add spring rubbers to even it out…very easy and quick.

I didn’t need to trim or lubricate the rubber shocks to get them installed. Super easy in the rear.

Note:
I have had a persistent driver side front lean as well (since I got the car). I plan to add some rubbers up there when they get in from Amazon…I’ll update to see if the rear lean continues to be gone…as well as whether the front lean goes away too.

 

[highfructose]

Some data for interested parties:

I’ve had a persistent “lean” with a slightly lower passenger rear fender than driver rear fender that I’ve measured over the past week…only about 0.5” though.

Bear in mind a normal lx570 has a taller spring on that side to counter the excess weight of the gas tank…and I replaced the driver side rear with the same extra long spring to get an equal distribution of weight left to right…and I also have a spring spacer to preload both rears take some pressure off the ahc system (I had a significant driver side dip before that mod)…so I’ve got a fresh extra long spring on the driver side and a 10 year old extra tall on the passenger…which is probably contributing to the lean. If I had a new extra long spring for the passenger rear it would probably fix it…but adding spring rubbers is easy and cheap.

So I ordered some of these blue size b rubber shocks…I installed one on the passenger rear and then drove the vehicle for a few miles to, hopefully, allow the system to equalize its pressures and see if my lean reduced.

As a result, it lifted the drivers side 0.25”, bringing the total differential left and right from 0.5” to 0.25”…so it improved things as one would expect.

Then I added a second blue rubber to the same passenger rear coil, drove to equalize, and it returned…exact left to right rear fender height….getting rid of, it seems, the lean.

So if you have a lean with your ahc (or probably even a normal non ahc suspension), you might be able to add spring rubbers to even it out…very easy and quick.

I didn’t need to trim or lubricate the rubber shocks to get them installed. Super easy in the rear.

Note:
I have had a persistent driver side front lean as well (since I got the car). I plan to add some rubbers up there when they get in from Amazon…I’ll update to see if the rear lean continues to be gone…as well as whether the front lean goes away too.

Follow up: I measured my rear fender heights multiple times over the past week or so…2 of 3 times my right rear (where I put 2 blue rubber shox) was a bit high where, prior to the rubber installs, it was almost always low.

1 in 3 times, after the double blue install, things were equal or the left rear was a bit high again…ahc sort of floats and rearranges itself over time so you’ll need to take measurements over a period of time to get statistically significant data.

So I pulled one of the blues off the right rear because two rubbers over there usually led to a slightly too high corner…

I think this will mitigate my lean in the long run. If not, I might add a red (softer than blue) back there too if it’s not quite right…the various colors and ease of install makes fine tuning your suspension, hopefully, relatively easy and straight forward, especially in the rear.

I also had a driver side lean in the front (persistently since I got the car, even after replacing accumulators) though I decided not to mess with it until I got some data on rubbers in the rear.

I placed a blue up front on the left to help with its lean/weakness…then added a black to both the right and left in the front.

The purpose for adding the blacks up there is that after adding sliders, front bull bar, rear bumper, Wilco swing away, roof basket, tools, etc, that the vehicle seemed to rock forwards and backwards a bit excessively while hitting bumps/dips.

I also suspect that with hydraulic half of the ahc system picking up the slack for all that excess weight, there was a reduction in damping (harsher ride) due to the system, in practice, constantly being at a higher pressure…akin to always being in high suspension mode.

I’m hoping that the rubber helper springs will give some boost to the coils, help with the rocking back and forth hitting dips, and potentially reduce the pressures of the ahc system and bring back a bit of damping-I’m not an engineer or a Toyota expert so this experiment may be off base for some reason I’m not aware.

So far (5 miles in or so) it does appear that adding the blue and blacks up front improved damping…and also reduced the forward to backward rocking in dips…

but these things are sometimes subtle such that a placebo effect can cause one to think they solved the problem even if they didn’t.

Fender Heights after removing the rear right blue and adding it to the front left have all normalized (we will see whether that persists).

My experience with adding and substracting the spring rubbers in the rear: it’s a 5 minute job with no trimming or lube needed.

Adding them in the front: lube them up with silicone grease throughout the troughs and ridges…and cut an angle on the rubber like Grinchy references in this thread…that helps get them started. Working them in there took me about 10-15 minutes per rubber. Now that I’ve done it a couple times, the fronts will probably go in in 5-10 minutes each.

Once they’re “threaded” onto the coils, you’ll note that they overlap themselves and need to be trimmed. This can be carefully done with a box cutter while they’re installed on the vehicle (watch out for the electrical and brake lines with the box cutter, wear gloves, and don’t turn your job into an emergency room visit).

With the black spring rubbers, you’ll also need to drill zip tie ports in them as, unlike the blue ones, the manufacturer doesn’t appear to include them on the black ones.