Sipe MT tires? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jditom
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
I siped a set of 305/70R16 BFG MT tyres when they were new. I would do it again. Cost was about $10/tyre at the time. No ill effects and no tread chunking as some predicted. I cannot document the improvements because that was my first set of MT tread on the 80 so "improved" handling in ice and snow was something that I cannot confirm.
The proponents of siping state that the tyres run cooler on the highway which translates to better tread life. The siping is supposed to be better in wet, ice, and snow. The tyres worked well and we had one of the worst winters in history in our area last year.
-B-
The proponents of siping state that the tyres run cooler on the highway which translates to better tread life. The siping is supposed to be better in wet, ice, and snow. The tyres worked well and we had one of the worst winters in history in our area last year.
-B-
Last edited:
I siped my Toyo MTs on the LX and would do it again in a heart beat. I have not noticed any chucking to date. The Toyo MTs and the Cooper STTs (IIRC) are pretty close in design.
I also siped the MTRs on my 40 although I have read where some had bad experiences with siping MTRs and getting chucking. My 40 has only been on one relatively easy off road excursion so far and there was no chunking.
IMO, whether to sipe or not depends on planned use. If your rig is a DD for a good portion of its time and you regularly see ice/snow/rain then yes I would sipe the tires. If the rig sees mostly off road use then I would not sipe them.
In any event, ONLY sipe the center lugs, leaving the outer lugs alone as they tend to take the most abuse and chunk the most. However, it is almost ineveitable that either the outer lugs will get siped a little or the inner lugs won't be fully siped (due to how the inner and outer lugs "overlap") but make it crystal clear to whoever is siping the tires what you want. Also ask what happens if they over sipe the tires because once siped you can't go back...DAMHIK
You can do it yourself and some have but for $12/tire at Discount it hardly seems worth the effort. Maybe have the inner lugs done just enough to completely avoid the outter lugs and then hand do the remaining part of the inners if you have serious concern about chunking.
I also siped the MTRs on my 40 although I have read where some had bad experiences with siping MTRs and getting chucking. My 40 has only been on one relatively easy off road excursion so far and there was no chunking.
IMO, whether to sipe or not depends on planned use. If your rig is a DD for a good portion of its time and you regularly see ice/snow/rain then yes I would sipe the tires. If the rig sees mostly off road use then I would not sipe them.
In any event, ONLY sipe the center lugs, leaving the outer lugs alone as they tend to take the most abuse and chunk the most. However, it is almost ineveitable that either the outer lugs will get siped a little or the inner lugs won't be fully siped (due to how the inner and outer lugs "overlap") but make it crystal clear to whoever is siping the tires what you want. Also ask what happens if they over sipe the tires because once siped you can't go back...DAMHIK
You can do it yourself and some have but for $12/tire at Discount it hardly seems worth the effort. Maybe have the inner lugs done just enough to completely avoid the outter lugs and then hand do the remaining part of the inners if you have serious concern about chunking.
Last edited:
I haven't had a problem with my trxus MT's chunking, and I beat them pretty good in the rocks. They aren't as heavily siped as aftermarket, but the concept is ultimately the same.
I'd do it for snow/ice. No real reason just for rain unless it gets very slick in the rain where you live.
I'd do it for snow/ice. No real reason just for rain unless it gets very slick in the rain where you live.
depends on how you do it... this is a very good explanation of which sipes help in snow and ice and why:
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/tireSiping.dos
if you simply use a hot knife to cut large grooves in your tires it will NOT help on packed snow or ice. it wont.
people that sipe swampers with a big groove, giving them the chevron pattern? might help in some situations but not hard packed snow and ice...
these are the little sipes that work well... not grooves...
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/tireSiping.dos
if you simply use a hot knife to cut large grooves in your tires it will NOT help on packed snow or ice. it wont.
people that sipe swampers with a big groove, giving them the chevron pattern? might help in some situations but not hard packed snow and ice...
these are the little sipes that work well... not grooves...
Off topic, but do you have pix of your rig with the 305 STT's?
I'm going with 305's as well and I'm debating on brand/type
I'm going with 305's as well and I'm debating on brand/type
I finally had Discount Tire sipe a pair Yokohama 315s I had a few years back and it made a lot of difference. Quiter, longer wear and much better in the rain.
I bought a new set of 30x9.5's BFG AT's for my 4Runner a few years back and ran them unsiped for two whole years. Then I took the tires off the Runner and put them on my 84' 60 series diesel and had them siped at that time. I took the wagon up the hill in search for a Christmas tree and was amazed at the traction I had. I was pushing snow up over the bumper and the vehicle has open diffs.
I had a similar experience with the 4Runner (again a stock vehicle)once when I put on a used set (same size as above) of General MT's that where freshly siped. I was plowing knee deep snow with the bumper and had great traction.
In both instances the snow was dry and powdery on top with a few inches of frozen compact underneath.
I've been told from someone who spent some time in the Yukon, that in winter the roads are virtualy solid ice and it becomes very difficult to drive. Even studded tires have difficulty there. The police cruisers were running dedicated winter tires with HEAVY siping and no studs and were sticking to the ice better than anything else on the road.
I had a similar experience with the 4Runner (again a stock vehicle)once when I put on a used set (same size as above) of General MT's that where freshly siped. I was plowing knee deep snow with the bumper and had great traction.
In both instances the snow was dry and powdery on top with a few inches of frozen compact underneath.
I've been told from someone who spent some time in the Yukon, that in winter the roads are virtualy solid ice and it becomes very difficult to drive. Even studded tires have difficulty there. The police cruisers were running dedicated winter tires with HEAVY siping and no studs and were sticking to the ice better than anything else on the road.
The only ill effect I've heard about is tread chunking. I've done some off roading (loose dirt, rock, mud) with my siped BFG AT's and no chunking so far. From what I understand, siping offers increased traction for rock crawling (more bitting edges to hold onto the rock).
Can you post pics of how you had them siped. I have a relatively new set of Toyo Open Country MTs and they were factory siped. It would be interesting to see where you have the extra siping.
-B-
Don't confuse siping with grooving, there's a big difference. Siping will help wet and snow traction without a doubt. Grooving helps but the tread blocks still remain somewhat large and do not offer the number of biting edges that siping offers. Siping is to be performed perpendicular to the tire centerline, there is no value in siping in the direction of rotation. Siping mud tires or any tire that will be used for serious off road for that matter should keep the siping to the center tread blocks so as to minimize the chances of the shoulder tread chunking (see above two pics).
Keep this in mind; siping=slits cut into existing tread blocks (no rubber removed), grooving=removal of rubber to add biting edges.
Disclaimer: For this discussion tread flexibility is not the motivator.
Siping
Grooving
Keep this in mind; siping=slits cut into existing tread blocks (no rubber removed), grooving=removal of rubber to add biting edges.
Disclaimer: For this discussion tread flexibility is not the motivator.
Siping
Grooving
B,
Hope these help - I didn't have any pictures of just the tires so I had to crop some photos to get these. And the 800x800 limit for MUD pics doesn't lend itself to great clarity.
You can see how the inner and outer lugs "overlap" and why if you have the tires siped that you will either have to live with not having the inner lugs completely siped or accept some siping on the outer lugs. Also helps to show how important it is that you are CLEAR to whoever does the siping on exactly what you want. My LX is 90% road, 10% offroad so having the inner lugs completely siped was more important to me than concern about chucking of the outer lugs.
If you need a better pic let me know and I'll take one
.
I am currently looking at doing it to my next set. The ATs it has now (31.9) have plenty as is.
I have done siping to MTs and also light grooving. I will probably run Hankooks with a bit of grooving to aid flexibility of the blocks and plenty of hand siping for ice grip. Makes a huge difference. MN born and raised here.
IMHO the outer edge of the outer lugs is what you want to keep sipes off of. The inner ends of the outer lugs are just fine to sipe.
A sipe machine job at a shop is quick, easy and effective. Yet needs to be done again later. Getting a grooving iron and using the blade upside down allows you to make deeper sipes (more effective)spaced where they make sense. If you have a triangular corner on a tread block space sipes farther apart (fewer per cm) and away from the tip of the corner. You can even start and end the sipe spaced in from the edges of blocks.
I will probably make a zig zag blade and use it to put snow and ice tire style sipes on my lugs.
I have done siping to MTs and also light grooving. I will probably run Hankooks with a bit of grooving to aid flexibility of the blocks and plenty of hand siping for ice grip. Makes a huge difference. MN born and raised here.
IMHO the outer edge of the outer lugs is what you want to keep sipes off of. The inner ends of the outer lugs are just fine to sipe.
A sipe machine job at a shop is quick, easy and effective. Yet needs to be done again later. Getting a grooving iron and using the blade upside down allows you to make deeper sipes (more effective)spaced where they make sense. If you have a triangular corner on a tread block space sipes farther apart (fewer per cm) and away from the tip of the corner. You can even start and end the sipe spaced in from the edges of blocks.
I will probably make a zig zag blade and use it to put snow and ice tire style sipes on my lugs.
That will do nicely, thanks. That looks like the same style siping machine that was used on my old MTs.
-B-
I had my BFG MT siped and was very pleased with them. They handled great in the snow and rain and damn swell in the mud and rocks as well. I would do it again in a heartbeat!
- Thread starter
- #18
Off topic, but do you have pix of your rig with the 305 STT's?
I'm going with 305's as well and I'm debating on brand/type
I put them on next week and I will post pics!
And I will have them siped!
Thanks All
Good Stuff!
Last edited:
Much improved on ice and packed snow as well as better wear. My MTR's have over 50K on them and are still about 75%!!! Plus I swear they ride smoother/softer. I will sipe all my M/T's in the future. Best cheap mod I've done.
- Thread starter
- #20
