Shrapnel in my Front Differential (1 Viewer)

[TheRareElement]

I know this is a difficult question to answer, but perhaps the collective intelligence of this group can direct me in the right direction.
I was changing the front diff oil yesterday and found some shrapnel in the magnetic drain plug.
I have a 97 80 Series, with 600,000 Km on it so far, free wheeling hubs which are on "free" most of the time, just did a 140 Km trip offroad two weeks ago and did not feel nor hear anything out of the ordinary plus I did not do any work on my front differential in many years and the last work was changing the front axle outer shaft 9 years ago.
The shrapnel is quite thin, like shavings, however there is one piece (center) which has a square tip and looks like a tooth of the locking washer in the hub !
Didn't want to open & dig in till have most parts I need for repair plus I have a lot of work these days and had to postpone the surgery till later.
Both pics are the same, not good quality, greasy fingers and the such.
Any advise greatly appreciated......thank you guys.

 

[Malleus]

I'd say you were fortunate that your hubs were unlocked, and that was also probably the reason you hadn't found this earlier. The front differential carrier has some parts missing. I would not try to lock the front driveshafts to the differential. At the very least, I'd bet against the thrust washers being serviceable, so plan on buying those. I base my guess on the crossection of the metal in your photo. As to what caused the damage, who knows, I wasn't there, so...

The are two pages of parts. Here is the first. Here is the second page, partial differential parts list:

Unfortunately, you really don't have a choice about opening the axle. You have no choice but to pull the differential carrier assembly (AKA the "third member", whatever that means, I have yet to meet someone who could define what the first and second members are) and inspect the differential components to determine which are serviceable and/or salvageable, and which are toast.

FWIW, you are also looking at removing the hubs and driveshafts, so that he entire inner volume of the axle can be flushed to remove any foreign matter in there, as well as all the gear oil, prior to reassembly. Gear oil is pretty thick and it can easily hide small chips which, if they get into the drivetrain, will, not may, damage the internal gearing and associated components. When I built axles for an offroad (heavy construction and agriculture) manufacturer, this was the number one casue of axle failures in new builds. The machining operations people failed to properly clean the axle housings and the chips left inside found their way into the drivetrain. The axles failed within hours of being installed in the vehicles and run at speed. Sometimes it was a catastropihic failure, sometimes just noise, but a failure is a failure.

Whether you do the work, or have it done for you, this step is a must, or you'll have wasted all the money you spent on parts and labor to repair the axle.

At least shipping should be cheap, so you have that going for you. Good luck.

 

[TheRareElement]

Thank you @Malleus.......

 

[TheRareElement]

Winter is almost here (time for desert trips) and had to dig into the front differential, after 7 months, so I am not grounded this winter.

An update on the above issue, perhaps someone can benefit from my experience as I have benifited many times from the collective intelligence on this group......

Took front end apart, removed axles, removed front diff, found more shrapnel near drain plug (had diff locks on "free" since May).

Intact Components :
Differential (2 pinion) was in excellent shape, ring gear, drive pinion, pinion gears, side gears, thrust washers, pinion shaft, differtial case, front-rear-side bearings, side bearing outer races, everything was intact, clean and smooth like the day it was born 618,947 Km's ago.

Failed and/or Damaged Components :
* Drivers side axle oil seal.
* 6 individual tabs from the lock plates of the 10 bolts that hold the ring gear on the differential carrier were broken and one was open.
* Bent/off center side bearing adjusting nut lock.

Now what I presume happened is that I beleive that there is some sort of oil baffle/regulator about 4cm behind the oil seal seat, it appears to be a plate with a hole in it that perhaps reduces oil flow and/or oil pressure to the axle oil seal. On the driver's side there was one but on the passenger side there was none.

Probably, this plate (has no part number & is not on any drawing) is installed in the differential arms during fabrication and, for one reason or another, became dislodged, moved perhaps through the rotation of the axle until it hit the rear side of the ring gear, got stuck there & the rotation of the differential case eventually minced it into the shrapnel I found when I changed oil in May and when I opened up the diff yesterday.

In the mincing proccess, a few lock plate tabs were broken and the lock for the side bearing adjusting nut was moved off-center due to the impact.

I also gues that had it been that plate on the passenger side that was dislodged (the side facing the front of the ring gear & open to the differential case, there could have been more considerable damage to the critical parts of the differential.

Anyone thinks otherwise ?

Front Diff :

Looking through axle shaft on diff (Driver Side) :

Looking through axle shaft on diff (Passenger Side) :

Broken & Bent Tab(s) of Ring Gear Bolt Lock Plate :

Pictures continued on following post due to the 5 pic attach limit......

 

[TheRareElement]

.......Cont.

Side Bearing Adjusting Nut Lock :

Last Shrapnel in Diff Housing :
(see lock plate tab circled in red)

Fogot to mention that Ring Gear backlash and runbout where checked and were within specified limits.

 

[MUDZLLA]

Those "rings" inside the axle are (I think) for guiding the axle when you slide it back into the housing so you don't **** up the seal. I had one come loose and sort of sit inside the housing so you had to thread through it everytime you re-inserted the axle. Anyway it's possible that got pushed all the way in by an axle and that caused the damage.

 

[TheRareElement]

Those "rings" inside the axle are (I think) for guiding the axle when you slide it back into the housing so you don't f*** up the seal. I had one come loose and sort of sit inside the housing so you had to thread through it everytime you re-inserted the axle. Anyway it's possible that got pushed all the way in by an axle and that caused the damage.

Thanks for the input.....
That's what I thought since I changed the outer front axle shafts many years ago but, as far as I recall, the axles went smoothly in, without resistance and without using any force at all.
I'd understand that this plate could be dislodged on the driver's side as the axle is longer and while installing it you can accidentaly hit that plate, but this happend on the passenger side which is shorter and much easier to install properly, but your prognosis is a possibility I guess. In either case it must take a strong impact from the axle during installation to dislodge it !

 

[Broski]

(AKA the "third member", whatever that means, I have yet to meet someone who could define what the first and second members are)

The way it was explained to me when I was young Man ( a long time ago ) and Vehicles were simpler is that the engine is the first member, the transmission is the second member and rear differential is the third member

 

[Broski]

Thanks for the input.....
That's what I thought since I changed the outer front axle shafts many years ago but, as far as I recall, the axles went smoothly in, without resistance and without using any force at all.
I'd understand that this plate could be dislodged on the driver's side as the axle is longer and while installing it you can accidentaly hit that plate, but this happend on the passenger side which is shorter and much easier to install properly, but your prognosis is a possibility I guess. In either case it must take a strong impact from the axle during installation to dislodge it !

The plate has be know to come lose for no reason and it is for hold the axle up off the seal when installing the axle shaft especially on the driver side where sometimes you need to push down on the axle ( think like a teeter totter ) to get the end of the axle to line up with the third.
This is the first time I has seen it make it's way to the third member and destroy itself

 

[MUDZLLA]

Thanks for the input.....
That's what I thought since I changed the outer front axle shafts many years ago but, as far as I recall, the axles went smoothly in, without resistance and without using any force at all.
I'd understand that this plate could be dislodged on the driver's side as the axle is longer and while installing it you can accidentaly hit that plate, but this happend on the passenger side which is shorter and much easier to install properly, but your prognosis is a possibility I guess. In either case it must take a strong impact from the axle during installation to dislodge it !

I think they're just tack-welded in place before the knuckle is welded on. Mine was floating around loose.

 

[TheRareElement]

Those "rings" inside the axle are (I think) for guiding the axle when you slide it back into the housing so you don't f*** up the seal. I had one come loose and sort of sit inside the housing so you had to thread through it everytime you re-inserted the axle. Anyway it's possible that got pushed all the way in by an axle and that caused the damage.

I'm avoiding resurrecting this thread but something is not right here........
If this plate is to prevent damage to the lip of the oil seal while installing the axle then it should be a bit higher than the seal to lift & prevent the axle rubbing on the oil seal while inserting it, if this assumption is correct then I presume that the axle will rub on this plate while rotating, unless the connection point of the axle & the third member is at a slight upward inclination and axle & third member are not on the same plane.......am I making any sense here ?

 

[60 toy ota]

You're making sense to me, my assumptions has been that the ID of that ring Is somewhere between the diameters of the metal portion of the seal and the ID of the rubber portion

 

[Broski]

I'm avoiding resurrecting this thread but something is not right here........
If this plate is to prevent damage to the lip of the oil seal while installing the axle then it should be a bit higher than the seal to lift & prevent the axle rubbing on the oil seal while inserting it, if this assumption is correct then I presume that the axle will rub on this plate while rotating, unless the connection point of the axle & the third member is at a slight upward inclination and axle & third member are not on the same plane.......am I making any sense here ?

no the ring is smaller it's more to keep the seal from being smashed completely. especially on the long side where you have to push down on the axle to lift the end up to get alignment with the diff, the ring is like the center of a teeter totter push down on one side the other side go's up. with out the ring the seal would get damaged.
the Oil seal is rubber so it can take some deflection but not the hole weight of the axle levering on it.

 

[TheRareElement]

no the ring is smaller it's more to keep the seal from being smashed completely. especially on the long side where you have to push down on the axle to lift the end up to get alignment with the diff, the ring is like the center of a teeter totter push down on one side the other side go's up. with out the ring the seal would get damaged.
the Oil seal is rubber so it can take some deflection but not the hole weight of the axle levering on it.

"I can see clearly now, the rain has gone"............. brain a bit fuzzy at the end of another crazy year !