With an inch/lb torque wrench. I use the Park Tools model. Same one Zuk references on all of his setups.
should the pinion wobble?
- Thread starter Nemesis Gnat
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With an inch/lb torque wrench. I use the Park Tools model. Same one Zuk references on all of his setups.
As far as the solid spacer. Yes, its a much stronger setup. With the stupid low gearing available, I have seen crush sleeves crush more. It could happen simply by driving into a rock and hitting the edge of the pinion flange. It can push it in a hair and crush the sleeve more. I have also seen it happen with wheel hop when climbing rocks and hills. The torque can pull the pinion closer to the carrier crushing the sleeve. In either case, its just a short matter of time before the bearings are toast.[/QUOTE]
That makes a ton of sense, will an antiwrap bar aleviate at least the wheel hop component of extra crush-i-ness?
and another question...without that line of defense (absorbsion of extra stress) what would get damaged in leu of the crush sleeve? carrier bearings? pinion gear teeth? the third itself?
That makes a ton of sense, will an antiwrap bar aleviate at least the wheel hop component of extra crush-i-ness?
and another question...without that line of defense (absorbsion of extra stress) what would get damaged in leu of the crush sleeve? carrier bearings? pinion gear teeth? the third itself?
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It won't hurt it, but its the torque being transferred from the pinion to the ring gear that pulls it. If both wheels are bound, all the torque is being transferred through the pinion to the ring gear. The pinion is basically trying to turn the ring gear and can't because the ring gear won't move with both wheels bound. All it can do is pull itself closer to the carrier. That is when it happens.
So, while a traction bar will help in wheel hop situations, it won't completely eliminate the possibility of crushing the sleeve more. Normally with an open diff, this isn't an issue since one wheel will at least spin. But, with locked or spooled diffs, its a lot more likely to happen.
Considering that a solid spacer usually runs $19-30 its cheap insurance. If you ever re-gear, or need to rebuild diff, just get one. For piece of mind more than anything else.
If you snapped the pinion, then it could be a combo of both. If the pinion can't turn, then something goes BOOM!
I've seen my fair share of R&P failures. In fact, I carry a spare 5.29 3rd in my trailer axle just in case. Although, I have never broken one myself (knock on wood).
Now I'm starting to get it. For example, I bought a 4.11 third with an early pinion flange so I need to swap it out to install it on my 60. To do that, I'd have to pull off the pinion nut, which exposes the crush sleeve, correct? Therefore, since I will have it off, I should just put in a solid spacer, correct?
No - Crush washer is between the bearing and the pinion gear head... You need a special SST to get the damn bearing out without pulling the 3rd and pressing the pinion shaft off the bearing (shown in the ZUK write-up).
My original 4.11's were early OEM from a 40 so they were coarse spline, not good in my opinion. instead of getting 4.11's via old 40 thirds. Put in fine spline yukons and replace pinion bearing, carrier bearings and add the solid sleeve at that point. I think the fine spline pinion will match up to an FJ55 DS yoke (or maybe the stock one...is the OEM 60 Fine splined?)
- Thread starter
- #29
hey scotty, thanks for the offer for help, but im in california right now for the holidays and really shouldnt be driving back with it like it is... i think you may know my buddy drew though. hes got a couple pick ups and i think hes taken his difs to you for some work, including replacing a spool with an open dif? i dunno just wondering if it was the same addicted offroad
anyways, now im lookin for a good place in the bay area (peninsula) for dif work. i checked that mechanic sticky and all i came up with was mudrak, whos kinda far away... all this talk about solid spacers seems interesting too, along with that gearinstalls.com write up... im all for durability, seems like i may as well do something about it while its all apart anyways or is it really just not worth it unless im running big tires and heavy throttle?
and thanks everyone for hangin with me here and lending advice
anyways, now im lookin for a good place in the bay area (peninsula) for dif work. i checked that mechanic sticky and all i came up with was mudrak, whos kinda far away... all this talk about solid spacers seems interesting too, along with that gearinstalls.com write up... im all for durability, seems like i may as well do something about it while its all apart anyways or is it really just not worth it unless im running big tires and heavy throttle?
and thanks everyone for hangin with me here and lending advice
Hey, Georg (Orangefj45) is up that way and a really good guy -- Anybody know exactly where his shop is ?? I think it's called Valley Hybrids, in Stockton. Worth getting your truck there.
PM him. Maybe he can rec somebody if you don't want to travel or tow.
PM him. Maybe he can rec somebody if you don't want to travel or tow.
hey scotty, thanks for the offer for help, but im in california right now for the holidays and really shouldnt be driving back with it like it is... i think you may know my buddy drew though. hes got a couple pick ups and i think hes taken his difs to you for some work, including replacing a spool with an open dif? i dunno just wondering if it was the same addicted offroad
anyways, now im lookin for a good place in the bay area (peninsula) for dif work. i checked that mechanic sticky and all i came up with was mudrak, whos kinda far away... all this talk about solid spacers seems interesting too, along with that gearinstalls.com write up... im all for durability, seems like i may as well do something about it while its all apart anyways or is it really just not worth it unless im running big tires and heavy throttle?
and thanks everyone for hangin with me here and lending advice
Yeah, I know Drew. I just setup two more 3rds for him with 4.88s in them a couple weeks ago. That and he got one of my winch bumpers.
BTW, if you are in central CA, could you get it to Marlin?
ntsqd
technerd
Even Stockton is going to be a hunnert-ish miles from the SF peninsula, Marlin is going to be further. I'll second PMing Georg. Mayhap he can make a recommendation. Otherwise maybe a fellow mudder can flat trailer it?
orangefj45
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thanks for the referrals guys, i appreciate it.
i just received a pm from gnat and replied, i think we found somebody local to ge thsi looked at. i lived on the peninsula for 15 years.......
also, when you're back home, make sure you take your cruiser to scotty. he's a stand-up guy and knows what he's doing!
if your third is wasted, i have a few spares..........
i just received a pm from gnat and replied, i think we found somebody local to ge thsi looked at. i lived on the peninsula for 15 years.......
also, when you're back home, make sure you take your cruiser to scotty. he's a stand-up guy and knows what he's doing!
if your third is wasted, i have a few spares..........
- Thread starter
- #35
ya hey thanks for the speedy reply!
sent off another pm, ill report back later
and from what ive heard and seen of his work, scotty seems like a good dude
sent off another pm, ill report back later
and from what ive heard and seen of his work, scotty seems like a good dude
The Toyota crush sleeves that I had used were so hard to collapse, that we had to remove them and put them in a press to get the "crush" process started. As far as retorquing a loose pinion goes, I've done it on more than one occasion with no ill effects. Since the pinion depth cannot change, only the bearing preload, there is little risk to the gears and only some risk to the bearings, but they are tougher than you think. I'd try it. Check in a week or so with the axle in the air and the driveline off to see if there is any roughness in the rotation which would indicate a toasted bearing, but I bet you'll be fine.
If the nut did not loosen, then the bearing (or race) is toasted.
It is a temporary fix just to "snug it down" again.
It'll get you off the trail, but it will fail again..
Also, staring the "crush" in a press is a pretty poor idea as well. It does not take much to go too far..
There are reasons I hate crush sleeves..
It is a temporary fix just to "snug it down" again.
It'll get you off the trail, but it will fail again..
Also, staring the "crush" in a press is a pretty poor idea as well. It does not take much to go too far..
There are reasons I hate crush sleeves..
It's true what Mace said; if the nut didn't back off, then you have to wonder what really happened. Did you smack a rock? Was it improperly installed to begin with? Is your driveline binding or is it too long and putting pressure on the pinion? I still think you have little to loose by retorquing, you shouldn't hurt anything that isn't already boogered. Just make sure there isn't too much pinion to ring gear slop. If so, you fried the big bearing and you're pulling a gear set. I've been lucky in the past and found on a couple of occasions that the pinion was a tad loose. At that point in my life, I wasn't into building my own stuff, I relied on others for that sort of thing, so I went to friends who worked in shops and retorqued and they lived a long and happy life after. I still don't know why it happened.
- Thread starter
- #40
soooo it turns out that the nut wasnt staked, and had just backed off a little bit...
i had the pinion seal replaced by a family friend who has a shop not too long ago. i dont really trust his work, but i was short on dough and experience at the time... i guess he just never quite finished the job
so its retourqed now thanks to whitey45 (who turns out is a super nice guy). ill be keepin a close eye on it, but right now it feels muuuuuch better
i had the pinion seal replaced by a family friend who has a shop not too long ago. i dont really trust his work, but i was short on dough and experience at the time... i guess he just never quite finished the job
so its retourqed now thanks to whitey45 (who turns out is a super nice guy). ill be keepin a close eye on it, but right now it feels muuuuuch better
