Shock madness (2 Viewers)

[06reg4x4]

Lockers are great. And definitely the best “solution”. But I’ve always prided myself on all my vehicle builds cars and trucks. On working out the bugs to maximize what I have. Then when those high dollar mods come it works that much better. If you have the travel and flex to get you through most. And then add lockers. Imagine how much more you can do. Vrs yes lockers but still 3 wheeling it cause of travel and flex.
Travel and flex has always been fun for me. And this truck particularly was a good buy for me cause it came with a ome kit, sliders, front bumper/winch redone front seats. And relatively good interior which was important cause this huals my wife and 4kids and wheeling duties.
We just drove from Mesa, az to apple valley, ca. and the ride was very good loaded down with all of us and crap.

 

[mudgudgeon]

If you have the travel and flex to get you through most. And then add lockers. Imagine how much more you can do. Vrs yes lockers but still 3 wheeling it cause of travel and flex.

The difference is, lockers let you crawl through stuff that you have to beat a non locked vehicle through.

I like your philosophy in general. But in this case, lockers enable you to be sympathetic to your vehicle in a way that you just can't to smywhere near the same extent unlocked.

There's more benefit to lockers than being able to do harder stuff.

Everyone has priorities and compromised to make though.

Although, a driver who's learnt the importance of wheel placement and has a good sense of where their wheels are will be able to be more sympathetic to the vehicle than someone who thinks "Cool, lockers! I can beat this truck through anything!".


So anywho, carry on

 

[06reg4x4]

Just a lil bump lol

 

[baldilocks]

Lockers are great. And definitely the best “solution”. But I’ve always prided myself on all my vehicle builds cars and trucks. On working out the bugs to maximize what I have. Then when those high dollar mods come it works that much better. If you have the travel and flex to get you through most. And then add lockers. Imagine how much more you can do. Vrs yes lockers but still 3 wheeling it cause of travel and flex.
Travel and flex has always been fun for me. And this truck particularly was a good buy for me cause it came with a ome kit, sliders, front bumper/winch redone front seats. And relatively good interior which was important cause this huals my wife and 4kids and wheeling duties.
We just drove from Mesa, az to apple valley, ca. and the ride was very good loaded down with all of us and crap.

With the best travel money can buy for Front end of an 80, you’ll still lift a tire off the ground rather easily but with lockers at least you will still be “3 wheeling”. With no lockers, you will only ever be 2 wheeling.

 

[mudgudgeon]

With the best travel money can buy for Front end of an 80, you’ll still lift a tire off the ground rather easily but with lockers at least you will still be “3 wheeling”. With no lockers, you will only ever be 2 wheeling.

And with open centres and one wheel in the air, and one wheel on a loose surface, make that one wheel drive, if that.

 

[Squeegee]

He’s not arguing that he doesn’t need lockers. By the sounds of it, he just wants to get his suspension working well first. Why he’s going with Ls instead of the longer 6” lift dobinsons… that one…. Idk

 

[baldilocks]

And with open centres and one wheel in the air, and one wheel on a loose surface, make that one wheel drive, if that.

I’ll go one step further. Any time I’ve ever flopped or rolled over, I was NO wheeling. I tried the locker switch to no avail. And those 6” lift shocks were not in my favor.

 

[baldilocks]

He’s not arguing that he doesn’t need lockers. By the sounds of it, he just wants to get his suspension working well first. Why he’s going with Ls instead of the longer 6” lift dobinsons… that one…. Idk

Baby steps. Most of us did that.

 

[Squeegee]

Baby steps. Most of us did that

Hey I started on a 3” ome lift too I just got tired of short springs and short shocks faster than most

 

[mudgudgeon]

Baby steps. Most of us did that.

I started with a locked 80 on 4" lift.

Had wheeled a lot with uncles and my dad prior.

I remember being out wheeling solo on some decent hard stuff not long after buying my 80. I came across a group of guys who where dumbfounded I'd driven up a difficult trail solo, then said I was going to turn around and drive back down, which I did, no problems

 

[baldilocks]

I started with a locked 80 on 4" lift.

Had wheeled a lot with uncles and my dad prior.

I remember being out wheeling solo on some decent hard stuff not long after buying my 80. I came across a group of guys who where dumbfounded I'd driven up a difficult trail solo, then said I was going to turn around and drive back down, which I did, no problems

Simply seating ourselves in the 80 series cockpit takes the edge off. Back to business. Lockers, not L shocks make a Cruiser that shockingly capable vehicle it’s known to be.

 

[Nay]

I’d recommend ditching OME it is unreal after decades people are still working through OME iterations on the way to ditching all together. There should be a simple sticky thread called “What OME suspension should I get” and then there is one reply that says “None” and the thread is locked.

Higher end dual rate coils are not very expensive and dual rate coils function a lot like sway bars without the downsides. They are longer and will stay in a travel sweet spot throughout travel range - this provides exceptional stability and balance off-road.

Dobinsons is a good place to start. Ignore all the triple rate and tapered stuff it isn’t necessary for a basic build. I don’t run sway bars at all and I promise it is nothing like your XJ (I’m a founder of NAXJA ).

Here’s a view of a dual rate coil. This is 5.5” of lift with 6” lift Foam Cell Pro shocks.

I run stock radius arms with @landtank caster plates, no trimming or other stuff - 38’s with no front fender trimming, my rear quarters are chopped and have been since I first ran 37” Trxus.

The factory arms are ideal when used with these caster brackets as the angles become flat under the axle on taller lifts (and they are free to you). Pinion angle is set for a double cardan driveshaft.

Shock travel should be engineered for spring travel and tire fitment. I have about 1/8” clearance for 38’s at multiple points front and rear and do not arbitrarily limit up travel to protect the shocks.

I’d work out what you want from it before throwing more OME money at it - you have figured out they sell the same shock for stock height to 3” lifts and that might be enough to consider buying stuff that is designed better.

 

[Nay]

Here are some vids to help with swaybar/coil/shock thinking. I don’t run swaybars, but keep in mind my only real added unsprung weight is the sliders. A ton of added weight causes most of the problems with these rigs.

This is a 5” rise angled driveway curb. Notice that the suspension is acting independently and the initial motion is handled by the softer transition rate of the dual rate coils. Try that with your IFS car (with it’s swaybar that makes it not independent) and make sure you protect your head from hitting something.



Slo mo so you can really see it.

 

[Nay]

Here is getting a bit unhinged testing the new coils (at the time) at speed.



And this is backing off a weird line on Whale’s Tale. These are vids that show how stable this setup is at 5.5” of lift. There are a lot of ways to design performance while spending basic quality suspension money. Timbren bump stops are a fantastic tuning addition, for example, at relatively low cost.



Learning how to wheel is also useful and I enjoy demonstrating my clear lack of skill.

 

[Squeegee]

I’d recommend ditching OME it is unreal after decades people are still working through OME iterations on the way to ditching all together. There should be a simple sticky thread called “What OME suspension should I get” and then there is one reply that says “None” and the thread is locked.

Higher end dual rate coils are not very expensive and dual rate coils function a lot like sway bars without the downsides. They are longer and will stay in a travel sweet spot throughout travel range - this provides exceptional stability and balance off-road.

Dobinsons is a good place to start. Ignore all the triple rate and tapered stuff it isn’t necessary for a basic build. I don’t run sway bars at all and I promise it is nothing like your XJ (I’m a founder of NAXJA ).

Here’s a view of a dual rate coil. This is 5.5” of lift with 6” lift Foam Cell Pro shocks.

View attachment 3474407
I run stock radius arms with @landtank caster plates, no trimming or other stuff - 38’s with no fender trimming.

View attachment 3474408
The factory arms are ideal when used with these caster brackets as the angles become flat under the axle on taller lifts (and they are free to you). Pinion angle is set for a double cardan driveshaft.
View attachment 3474411
Shock travel should be engineered for spring travel and tire fitment. I have about 1/8” clearance for 38’s at multiple points front and rear and do not arbitrarily limit up travel to protect the shocks.

View attachment 3474422

I’d work out what you want from it before throwing more OME money at it - you have figured out they sell the same shock for stock height to 3” lifts and that might be enough to consider buying stuff that is designed better.

I rubbed so much with 35s that I was cracking my fender liner in the front….. if you’re not rubbing with 38s, you’re missing alot of uptravel

 

[Gergg]

Here are some vids to help with swaybar/coil/shock thinking. I don’t run swaybars, but keep in mind my only real added unsprung weight is the sliders. A ton of added weight causes most of the problems with these rigs.

This is a 5” rise angled driveway curb. Notice that the suspension is acting independently and the initial motion is handled by the softer transition rate of the dual rate coils. Try that with your IFS car (with it’s swaybar that makes it not independent) and make sure you protect your head from hitting something.



Slo mo so you can really see it.

What coils are you running?

 

[baldilocks]

I’d recommend ditching OME it is unreal after decades people are still working through OME iterations on the way to ditching all together. There should be a simple sticky thread called “What OME suspension should I get” and then there is one reply that says “None” and the thread is locked.

Higher end dual rate coils are not very expensive and dual rate coils function a lot like sway bars without the downsides. They are longer and will stay in a travel sweet spot throughout travel range - this provides exceptional stability and balance off-road.

Dobinsons is a good place to start. Ignore all the triple rate and tapered stuff it isn’t necessary for a basic build. I don’t run sway bars at all and I promise it is nothing like your XJ (I’m a founder of NAXJA ).

Here’s a view of a dual rate coil. This is 5.5” of lift with 6” lift Foam Cell Pro shocks.

View attachment 3474407
I run stock radius arms with @landtank caster plates, no trimming or other stuff - 38’s with no fender trimming.

View attachment 3474408
The factory arms are ideal when used with these caster brackets as the angles become flat under the axle on taller lifts (and they are free to you). Pinion angle is set for a double cardan driveshaft.
View attachment 3474411
Shock travel should be engineered for spring travel and tire fitment. I have about 1/8” clearance for 38’s at multiple points front and rear and do not arbitrarily limit up travel to protect the shocks.

View attachment 3474422

I’d work out what you want from it before throwing more OME money at it - you have figured out they sell the same shock for stock height to 3” lifts and that might be enough to consider buying stuff that is designed better.

I’m not surprised you showed up here. So many opinions. It’s not about what a measuring tape tells us. It’s about getting from A to C. Those 38’s look fun!

 

[Nay]

I rubbed so much with 35s that I was cracking my fender liner in the front….. if you’re not rubbing with 38s, you’re missing alot of uptravel

It’s tempting to think that. I design my suspensions to run as close to 50/50 up/down travel as possible so both the shock and the coil are in the sweet spot of their travel.

This is the front Timbren bumps. They will squish down to allow about 5” of travel at the bump.

This is the available shock up travel.

I’m using all but the last inch so this setup is running 5” of up travel and 6” down (not all of that is useable with 80 series radius arms). I don’t try to engineer long travel into an 80 series - the 80’s superpower is its stability and the amount of traction is puts down, not super flex. Of course you can spend a lot of money working on both, but with upgraded upper and lower and rear control arms and adjustable panhards this ~$3,500 of suspension and that’s with $300/ea shocks.

Nothing is rubbing in this picture. For reference the Patagonia 38x13.5 is as big as the BFG 39x13.5 KO2. We just had them side by side with the Ko2 unmounted and the Patagonia was a bit larger mounted on the rim. There is a lot you can do with how a rounded tire tucks into a wheel well vs a squared shoulder tire that doesn’t tuck. I also have custom 3/4” wheel spacers from BPOR.

 

[Nay]

What coils are you running?

In my sig line.

 

[AgentOrange]

Same coils I run, although I'm on the Dobinsons yellow shocks. Not thrilled with them. Looking to make a change to something with more damping but similar travel